Agger Handball
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Honestly don't think he makes more than anyone else in that back four but think he's mistakes are magnified more than others at every possible opportunity, anyway don't want this to turn into another GJ thread.
He wasn't part of the first choice defensive pairing in either 2006-07 or 2008-09. Sami and Carra were first choice in 2006-07 - 23 and 34 starts respectively. It was Agger's second season at the club, and he was being blooded in as Hyypia's replacement, in the smaller games, and at left-back.
In 2008-09, it was essentially Carra plus one. Agger and Skrtel both had injuries, but Skrtel played more. Hyypia stepped in when needed.
Plus, we had a prime Reina behind the defence, and Alonso plus Mascherano/Hamann in front of them. The core was infinitely stronger than one with an ageing Reina and Agger and Lucas as the first-choice mainstays, which is essentially the point I was making.
OK, some amount of revisionism but I get your point. Still, Agger was part of the core whether he played left back or centre half.
I just think you need to look elsewhere for reason why we haven't finished 4th in the past few seasons.
Agger and Lucas are not it.
Lucas you kind of have to half point your finger at, as when he's been a consistent starter we've been shite in the league
there are a host of reasons why we haven;t finished 4th in a long time, but I think selling Alonso is probably the biggest - we never recovered and the following season we finished 7th I think.
He was solely responsible for umpteen goals that we conceded last year, and tried his best to be so again on Saturday. He's fucking rubbish in the air, and always gets bullied out of matches by physical strikers. And on Saturday he jumped at that thing like a coward. Game after game, year after year he costs us points.
But you know, he looks elegant, he's got tatts, loves the club and can shoot from long range - so what you lose on the swings eh?
But you know, he looks elegant, he's got tatts, loves the club and can shoot from long range - so what you lose on the swings eh?
Don't forget that he can play the ball out of defence quite well too.
R
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It's not just agger , i'd be worried about the whole team's ability to defend set pieces and against physical teams . I'd be surprised if we don't concede a few from set pieces this season .
Agger has been our most error prone defender for some time
The thing is, a defender who likes to take charge of a situation will always seem to commit more errors than one who is passive. Pique is Barca's most error-prone defender. He is also their best and valuable defender. Hummels - same. Luiz - same. Everybody can see it and point fingers when a defender commits an obvious error, but it's harder to quantify how many goals are prevented by a defender who is proactive and is not afraid to intervene even at the risk of making a costly error from time to time.
I think Agger was very good yesterday apart from the handball. Every player in our defensive line did their job well and we kept a clean sheet - that's all that matters.
I think Agger was very good yesterday apart from the handball. Every player in our defensive line did their job well and we kept a clean sheet - that's all that matters.
Why do people keep making this point about Glen Jo? Of course there would be more uproar, because he fucks up more than anyone at the back.
Had we drawn - yes, he would have got bollocked.
Since we won, people (rightly) will overlook it.
Since we won, people (rightly) will overlook it.
Rightly ?
Stupidly more like. We were fortunate that Aggers mistake didn't cost us the win.
Although we've been overlooking our problems for years now, why start being smart now ?
Agreed, but it wasn't the only issue. The whole game was symptomatic of our problems last season - inconsistency infront of goal which inevitably invites pressure at the other end, resulting too many times in dropped points. The only difference here was that our keeper bailed us out with a few good saves and the team spirit was fairly endearing to watch. Same old troubles though.
There's certainly a lacking in our spine, so long a thing of pride for us. We're still quite prone to a swift counterattack, a big, burly striker, or a powerful run through the middle. From the players we're rumoured to be after, I think Rodgers is going about remedying this the right way; concentrating on centre defense. Getting defenders like Papa and Sahko, strong one-on-one and in the air, yet no slouches on the ball. Essentially the top of the line defenders who will bolster our set pieces and allow us to play and press further up the pitch.
We were ... but these mistakes normally cost us - as they didn't, I can't be bothered getting upset about.
Hmmm of our starting 11 at the start of last season we had Studge, Coutinho, Toure, Migolet, Aspas new so thats half a team and I think their goalie had a hell of alot more to do with it in this case than in other games. We hit the target alot more than usual (Even Hendo's was touched onto the post)
I think some people just want to get their dig in these days and that's more important than actually having any kind of interesting debate.
This is how I see it - when you invite Stoke of all teams on you, you're basically asking for it. The ball was lumped in and ended up bouncing around like a pinball a few times in the last 20 or so minutes. Anything could have happened and anyone could've made a mistake. That doesn't absolve Agger of his moment of madness because it was fucking stupid but the fact is that we were all waiting for something like that to happen as our hold on the game loosened and that to me is the important bit to notice.
Where was Rodgers in all of this? You have to control a game for 90mins, not 50. Particularly when you're only 1 nil up. We sent on Sterling to give us more pace to hit them on the break but really we needed to get a hold of it in midfield and starve them of possession and territorial advantage.
Players like Agger and Skrtel haven't become useless over night. They just need to be in a well drilled setup to perform well. It's no surprise that we did better once Carra came in because he brought some order to the chaos that preceded him. I'm guessing that Toure is here to do the same. But we need more than that. We need a system that protects our players more - we're not good enough when we don't have the ball. That is something Rodgers needs to sort out unless he plans on getting the next Ferdinand and Vidic partnership in place but that doesn't look like happening.
So yeah, we can carry on calling out players for making mistakes but I think it misses the point. The team as a whole needs to tighten up and we'll see a reduction in mistakes that way.
This is how I see it - when you invite Stoke of all teams on you, you're basically asking for it. The ball was lumped in and ended up bouncing around like a pinball a few times in the last 20 or so minutes. Anything could have happened and anyone could've made a mistake. That doesn't absolve Agger of his moment of madness because it was fucking stupid but the fact is that we were all waiting for something like that to happen as our hold on the game loosened and that to me is the important bit to notice.
Where was Rodgers in all of this? You have to control a game for 90mins, not 50. Particularly when you're only 1 nil up. We sent on Sterling to give us more pace to hit them on the break but really we needed to get a hold of it in midfield and starve them of possession and territorial advantage.
Players like Agger and Skrtel haven't become useless over night. They just need to be in a well drilled setup to perform well. It's no surprise that we did better once Carra came in because he brought some order to the chaos that preceded him. I'm guessing that Toure is here to do the same. But we need more than that. We need a system that protects our players more - we're not good enough when we don't have the ball. That is something Rodgers needs to sort out unless he plans on getting the next Ferdinand and Vidic partnership in place but that doesn't look like happening.
So yeah, we can carry on calling out players for making mistakes but I think it misses the point. The team as a whole needs to tighten up and we'll see a reduction in mistakes that way.
Yup ... The Judge never left us.
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