1/4 of the way through - or thereabouts
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For me, anyhow, this is when the patience ended. Clearly there's problems, but negative momentum like positive momentum makes things more magnified than they are.
I'm off the patience train, but I still think it can be turned around. Klopp dispensing with Lovren is a good sign. Now, I think if he's playing through pain medication, I don't fault Lovren, and Klopp ain't no Benitez when it comes to defense. BUT, klopp's rep is now on the line. And he has to act. And he did sign Klavan and Matip.
But I think we will bounce back: especially with Mane and Lallana to come back. Just keep Karius out of nets. We can't afford things to get worse.
I'm off the patience train, but I still think it can be turned around. Klopp dispensing with Lovren is a good sign. Now, I think if he's playing through pain medication, I don't fault Lovren, and Klopp ain't no Benitez when it comes to defense. BUT, klopp's rep is now on the line. And he has to act. And he did sign Klavan and Matip.
But I think we will bounce back: especially with Mane and Lallana to come back. Just keep Karius out of nets. We can't afford things to get worse.
Agree. Klopp's post-match comments also point in this direction IMO.
Surely you can't mean Ron Pickering?
Hate to break it to you, but we've been playing two holding midfielders (or two midfielders, in a deep position) and they've not done a shining job of protecting the defence.
He's having a Lovren.
We haven't really though. They're expected to do anything that might crop up, so our emphasis on attack has often left our defence short of protection.
A German friend of mine made an interesting point the other day. He said (how accurately I couldn't say, but anyway) that Klopp's preference for all-rounders in midfield rather than dedicated DMs is a specifically German trait, shared not only by Bundesliga clubs but also by the national team. My hope now is that he'll see we don't have the players in midfield to do it that way. Keita will help, but by himself he won't be enough.
We only really have 2/3 of a forward line and maybe one or two attacking central midfielders to play the way Klopp wants to play, that's what I don't get. We leave gaps in midfield and defence and as a result need excellent individuals to play in those positions. Instead we have defenders and midfielders who can't dominate space and regularly lose 1 on battles. Considering so much of the team - GK, CBs, possibly full backs, definitely most of our central midfielders as well as arguably our central striker options - can't function well in a set-up Klopp uses, how come he hasn't gone for something more pragmatic until he can bring in who he wants?
In a way I think that's the worst thing about this summer's transfer business - not who we did or didn't sign but any real moves by the manager to mitigate things as a result.
As you say, something has to give. I think you can chuck whomever you like into that back five, but realistically; only a change in system will get us through to January without further major embarrassment.
Unfortunately, none of our midfielders look like they have the discipline to sit bar maybe Milner.
Keita is another all-rounder, albeit one who does the job to a higher standard than what we currently have.
He's paceless, as evidenced by their second goal yesterday.
I'd rather play Alexander-Arnold there to be honest.
That's quite true, but the defensive part of his skill set is way in advance of that of any of our current MFs. Even so, we'll need more stiffening in midfield IMO, even with him in the side.
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I'm not sure sitting deep is Milner's best position, but for a deeper MF the lack of pace might not be quite so much of a problem and I'd still be inclined to try him there in preference to TAA, who to me needs to play wide (at least at this stage) if he's going to play MF at all.
I disagree. We play with three in midfield with the deepest one usually being the de facto playmaker and not a defensive midfielder at all. The other two don't have pre defined roles really and are free to wander where they want on their own side of the pitch within reason.
Defensive midfielders are there to see the danger and snuff it out before it gets near to the defence, ideally by facing forwards and seeing where the runners are coming from and where the likely pass will be. At the moment our midfielders are reacting to runners and dangerous balls into space instead of anticipating them and because most of our midfielders are quite slow on the turn we are getting caught out. That's why nearly all teams now are defending deep against us and allowing us the possession up until the half way line, all they have to do is wait for us to give the ball away and we are all at sea.
The way we combated not having defensive midfielders last season (or at least up until Christmas) was the high press from the 3 forwards , 3 midfielders and the full backs which tried to stifle the opposition the their own half and recover the ball in dangerous positions. We have only done this against Arsenal this season and it worked very well.
If Lallanas absence has made Klopp abandon the high press then it shows that his system is too brittle if it can't accommodate one player being missing and we're not doing it because of concerns over burnout later in the season then that shows that the squad isn't deep enough to cope with it.
Disappointing start to the season. When we are good, we are great but when we are poor which is more often than not against top 4 rivals, its horrible. Klopp needs to slap himself out of this slumber. We are poor to say the least. Need huge improvements and long unbeaten run to get us where we need to be.
I don't trust any of our midfielders to hold properly. We need to get back to pressing well as a team.
This.
I really like Klopp, but he seems to be getting everything arse about face. You'd think he'd want to fix the defence first, but he concentrates on the attack. You'd think he'd want to fix the spine first, but he gets after the ancillaries and the "strength in depth" (I'm being generous here, Ox, you know who you are).
We've gone from Reina, Carra, Gerrard and Torres to Ming, Matip, Henderson and Firmino - you can certainly argue that 3 of those (if not 4) require biblical investment to fix them...
15 away and 1 at home
We do, but it's hard to expect that when it's been largely absent this season. It's starting to look like pressing less is a conscious choice.
Besides, even when we do press well we are still leaky and susceptible to counter attacks, the defence needs more protection.
I'm convinced that back 3/ back 5 is where we need to go, at least in the short term.
No idea what to do re: GKs. I think Ming has had it now. But does that mean we but #LK1 into PL starting slot, or does Danny Ward get a go? Either way - surely the writing on the wall now can't be any clearer re: both Ming & Lovren. Trash.
No idea what to do re: GKs. I think Ming has had it now. But does that mean we but #LK1 into PL starting slot, or does Danny Ward get a go? Either way - surely the writing on the wall now can't be any clearer re: both Ming & Lovren. Trash.
Haha. It was just an indication of what the team could have been like and maybe (add whatever players you feel maybe available) in January or next Summer. Basically to counter the assertion that we are a million miles away. We’re not.
No dispute with where the blame lies. It’s the ‘this team is shite and we need to start building from the ground up’ mentality, so typical of some here, that irks when you look at some of the talent in the team.
Leftpeg obviously since he’s already stated it. Oh and Raz who no doubt believes we are going to be relegated.
Whilst we don’t have an Azpilicueta it doesn’t have to be three big guys. AA-Matip-Gomez or Gomez-Matip-Robertson perhaps. Just throwing it out there.
Actually we could play Gomez there, if he wasn’t now needed at CB. He has the pace, the defensive mindset & passing skills. That would mean staying with 2 CBs but Klopp will likely do that anyway. A risk but what isn’t.
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