Yet another stupid idea by the Premier League
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I always thought UEFA offered England 4 CL places and its up to the PL who they send. Obv protocol has always been the top 4 but I don't see how UEFA would stand in the way if the Prem wanted to do something different.
Some sort of play-offs in the Prem was always going to happen, they are too lucrative for the League to ignore.
Some sort of play-offs in the Prem was always going to happen, they are too lucrative for the League to ignore.
Yeah. Hilarious.
Why not go one step further - for the last number of years the Premier League winners have come from an elite group of two teams - this is clearly not good for competition, so in the future the top 8 of the PL will enter a play off system at the end of the season to decide the title.
Isnt that what they do in rugby and American football???
Isnt that what they do in rugby and American football???
Having thought about this it is quite likely to go ahead.
The majority of clubs will be gagging for the opportunity to make it a lottery, the PL see more revenue and UEFA will see it as an opportunity to see the premier league fuck itself up a bit and release some of the clout it has, which UEFA really does not like.
Gold and Moyes have made good arguments about it, Gold says it will cause already over-stretched clubs to go the step to far in their finances to try and reach the golden egg, and Moyes points to extra fixtures in an already rammed program, for clubs in the top section of the league.
The standard does not really matter as there as some shit teams in it anyway.
There are just a handful of clubs that could have second thoughts on the idea, I would have thought Arsenal are probably the club that could suffer the most.
regards
The majority of clubs will be gagging for the opportunity to make it a lottery, the PL see more revenue and UEFA will see it as an opportunity to see the premier league fuck itself up a bit and release some of the clout it has, which UEFA really does not like.
Gold and Moyes have made good arguments about it, Gold says it will cause already over-stretched clubs to go the step to far in their finances to try and reach the golden egg, and Moyes points to extra fixtures in an already rammed program, for clubs in the top section of the league.
The standard does not really matter as there as some shit teams in it anyway.
There are just a handful of clubs that could have second thoughts on the idea, I would have thought Arsenal are probably the club that could suffer the most.
regards
I'd be surprised if it went ahead Vlad.
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=38925.msg1054936#msg1054936 date=1266306862]
It screams bollox to us - cause we're perennially anchored to the 3rd or 4th spot.
To the average football supporter, it makes it far more interesting.
It will be funny to see people's perspectives change - once they realize that Man City will soon be a Top 4 fixture.
[/quote]
That's an essential point right there. In our current predicament we should welcome being able to be 5th, 6th or 7th and still have a chance to get into the CL. That's ignoring the purist aspect to this, that such 'crap' teams shouldn't be represented in Europe's elite competition.
And as others have pointed out, the PL would probably soon lose it's 4th spot anyway due to our weakening qualifying co-efficient.
It's years away anyway, thankfully.
It screams bollox to us - cause we're perennially anchored to the 3rd or 4th spot.
To the average football supporter, it makes it far more interesting.
It will be funny to see people's perspectives change - once they realize that Man City will soon be a Top 4 fixture.
[/quote]
That's an essential point right there. In our current predicament we should welcome being able to be 5th, 6th or 7th and still have a chance to get into the CL. That's ignoring the purist aspect to this, that such 'crap' teams shouldn't be represented in Europe's elite competition.
And as others have pointed out, the PL would probably soon lose it's 4th spot anyway due to our weakening qualifying co-efficient.
It's years away anyway, thankfully.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38925.msg1054956#msg1054956 date=1266312922]
I'd be surprised if it went ahead Vlad.
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
[/quote]
As I said, it suits UEFA as the PL will ultimately get fucked one way or another, and they would like that.
It suits the PL, they won't care about the fixtures, they look at the money.
I wonder how soon they need the result?
It may not cause a fixture issue if it was played straight after the season finished, a little tournament over a few days somewhere exotic...like South East Asia, or America perhaps..........the 39th games
regards
I'd be surprised if it went ahead Vlad.
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
[/quote]
As I said, it suits UEFA as the PL will ultimately get fucked one way or another, and they would like that.
It suits the PL, they won't care about the fixtures, they look at the money.
I wonder how soon they need the result?
It may not cause a fixture issue if it was played straight after the season finished, a little tournament over a few days somewhere exotic...like South East Asia, or America perhaps..........the 39th games
regards
It'll be sold off to the highest bidder Vlad.
Asia would lap that shit up all day long.
Scudamore will get a nice hefty bonus too.
Asia would lap that shit up all day long.
Scudamore will get a nice hefty bonus too.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38925.msg1054956#msg1054956 date=1266312922]
I'd be surprised if it went ahead Vlad.
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
[/quote]
Exactly
I could understand it if the gap between 4th place and 7th place was a lot smaller, with the same teams there every year, because that would suggest that teams in 5th, 6th and 7th are consistently there and are pretty much of CL standard anyway if you accept that 4th place is CL standard.
However that is not the case. The makeup of the top 4 is fairly consistent and the gap is usually comfortable enough. Whereas if you look at the teams who have been in places 5-7 in the last 5 years they include Bolton, Fulham, Newcastle, Blackburn and Middlesboro. How would these have got on in the CL? Pretty poorly I suspect
I'd be surprised if it went ahead Vlad.
Where and how exactly are they going to fit even more games into a season?
What happens if Birmingham or Everton finish 7th, win this playoff, then inevitably get dumped out in the qualifying round?
How long will UEFA afford England 4 places in the CL if one team keeps getting dumped out early?
[/quote]
Exactly
I could understand it if the gap between 4th place and 7th place was a lot smaller, with the same teams there every year, because that would suggest that teams in 5th, 6th and 7th are consistently there and are pretty much of CL standard anyway if you accept that 4th place is CL standard.
However that is not the case. The makeup of the top 4 is fairly consistent and the gap is usually comfortable enough. Whereas if you look at the teams who have been in places 5-7 in the last 5 years they include Bolton, Fulham, Newcastle, Blackburn and Middlesboro. How would these have got on in the CL? Pretty poorly I suspect
I think it'll happen.
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
Those chairmen and others who think like them had better watch out. If this goes through, the biggest clubs may start thinking again about breaking away. Be careful what you wish for, fellas.
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055072#msg1055072 date=1266328077]
I think it'll happen.
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
[/quote]
If they put it to a vote and it passes then yes I suspect it will happen. However I do wonder about the influence of the top clubs compared to the bottom clubs
Officially they may present it like a democracy but in practice would the opinions of, say, United or Chelsea carry only the same weight as Burnley or Wolves?
If someone who the PL bosses want to keep onside is opposed then that could put an end to it or more likely these initial proposals will be changed (maybe to just a play off between 4th and 5th for example?)
I think it'll happen.
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
[/quote]
If they put it to a vote and it passes then yes I suspect it will happen. However I do wonder about the influence of the top clubs compared to the bottom clubs
Officially they may present it like a democracy but in practice would the opinions of, say, United or Chelsea carry only the same weight as Burnley or Wolves?
If someone who the PL bosses want to keep onside is opposed then that could put an end to it or more likely these initial proposals will be changed (maybe to just a play off between 4th and 5th for example?)
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055096#msg1055096 date=1266333057]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055072#msg1055072 date=1266328077]
I think it'll happen.
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
[/quote]
If they put it to a vote and it passes then yes I suspect it will happen. However I do wonder about the influence of the top clubs compared to the bottom clubs
Officially they may present it like a democracy but in practice would the opinions of, say, United or Chelsea carry only the same weight as Burnley or Wolves?
If someone who the PL bosses want to keep onside is opposed then that could put an end to it or more likely these initial proposals will be changed (maybe to just a play off between 4th and 5th for example?)
[/quote]
Yes agree with all that, but I think the Premier League are just looking at this to make some money, and as we know money is ruling football at the moment, I can see this going ahead.
The vote is what it said on Sky Sports anyway, and the first chairman to say yes? Any guesses? He's had his ugly fucking mug over the the press everywhere lately.
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055072#msg1055072 date=1266328077]
I think it'll happen.
It was on sky sports this morning that they are putting it to a vote between premier league clubs. If 14 out of the 20 vote "Yes", then it will be given the go ahead.
I then saw 3 interviews with different Prem Chairmen who said that they would vote yes. Think about it, it's only the big 4 that wont want this to go ahead. Its a win win for all the other clubs. If they just happen to have a good season and come 7th, they get a shot at the CL so why not?
[/quote]
If they put it to a vote and it passes then yes I suspect it will happen. However I do wonder about the influence of the top clubs compared to the bottom clubs
Officially they may present it like a democracy but in practice would the opinions of, say, United or Chelsea carry only the same weight as Burnley or Wolves?
If someone who the PL bosses want to keep onside is opposed then that could put an end to it or more likely these initial proposals will be changed (maybe to just a play off between 4th and 5th for example?)
[/quote]
Yes agree with all that, but I think the Premier League are just looking at this to make some money, and as we know money is ruling football at the moment, I can see this going ahead.
The vote is what it said on Sky Sports anyway, and the first chairman to say yes? Any guesses? He's had his ugly fucking mug over the the press everywhere lately.
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055103#msg1055103 date=1266334948]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Oh right. I don't take a lot of notice of them to be honest. Considering West Ham have finished in the top 7 about twice at the most in the last 20 odd years I don't see why they would have a strong opinion at all to be honest.
Now if there were proposals about bringing in relegation play offs then their opinion would be very valuable
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Oh right. I don't take a lot of notice of them to be honest. Considering West Ham have finished in the top 7 about twice at the most in the last 20 odd years I don't see why they would have a strong opinion at all to be honest.
Now if there were proposals about bringing in relegation play offs then their opinion would be very valuable
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38925.msg1055100#msg1055100 date=1266334502]
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
It is very heavily marketed Sheik but it is one of the worlds premier competitions.
Rafa, Ferguson, Wenger & Mourinho would rate it as equal to the domestic league title.
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
It is very heavily marketed Sheik but it is one of the worlds premier competitions.
Rafa, Ferguson, Wenger & Mourinho would rate it as equal to the domestic league title.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38925.msg1055111#msg1055111 date=1266336343]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38925.msg1055100#msg1055100 date=1266334502]
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
It is very heavily marketed Sheik but it is one of the worlds premier competitions.
Rafa, Ferguson, Wenger & Mourinho would rate it as equal to the domestic league title.
[/quote]
Well I think it's more difficult to win a league title than it is a cup competition. And 3 of the above are cockheads so that rules their opinion out.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38925.msg1055100#msg1055100 date=1266334502]
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
It is very heavily marketed Sheik but it is one of the worlds premier competitions.
Rafa, Ferguson, Wenger & Mourinho would rate it as equal to the domestic league title.
[/quote]
Well I think it's more difficult to win a league title than it is a cup competition. And 3 of the above are cockheads so that rules their opinion out.
Arf! Can't argue with that.
As for your first point, the last time we got into a "what would you prefer to win/ which is harder to win" this place nearly exploded into open warfare
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38925.msg1055117#msg1055117 date=1266337002]
the last time we got into a "what would you prefer to win/ which is harder to win" this place nearly exploded into open warfare
[/quote]
Really? Open warfare on 6CM? Who'd have thought.
the last time we got into a "what would you prefer to win/ which is harder to win" this place nearly exploded into open warfare
[/quote]
Really? Open warfare on 6CM? Who'd have thought.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38925.msg1055113#msg1055113 date=1266336773]
Well I think it's more difficult to win a league title than it is a cup competition. And 3 of the above are cockheads so that rules their opinion out.
[/quote]
Well I should have said 'all top managers' and not named any names, that was the point I was making (badly).
I would agree that it is harder to win a league than a cup, but the stature of the Champions League is as high if not higher than every domestic league in Europe.
Well I think it's more difficult to win a league title than it is a cup competition. And 3 of the above are cockheads so that rules their opinion out.
[/quote]
Well I should have said 'all top managers' and not named any names, that was the point I was making (badly).
I would agree that it is harder to win a league than a cup, but the stature of the Champions League is as high if not higher than every domestic league in Europe.
Quit apologising, Stu. Most really successful managers are cockheads in one way or another. That doesn't devalue their opinion on football matters. I would however agree with Sheiky to the extent that winning titles, not cups (even this one), is the true year-on-year measure of a club's progress and overall soundness.
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055103#msg1055103 date=1266334948]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Ha....eat your words Mr W.
regards
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Ha....eat your words Mr W.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38925.msg1055156#msg1055156 date=1266344639]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055103#msg1055103 date=1266334948]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Ha....eat your words Mr W.
regards
[/quote]
Stick your regards up your arse! 🙂
He didnt say that on the update I saw this morning!
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=38925.msg1055103#msg1055103 date=1266334948]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38925.msg1055099#msg1055099 date=1266333965]
There are so many horrible chairmen around it could be any one of many. Dave Whelan at a guess though?
My point was about money a bit too. Yes this would raise money in the short term but as Ryan pointed out earlier if we send shit clubs to the CL then we might end up losing our 4th place, which is what some want anyway, and would be a disaster, and alienating the big clubs, who are also of course the richest clubs would also be a bit of a mistake for the PL.
[/quote]
That new West Ham Prick. I fucking hate his face.
[/quote]
Ha....eat your words Mr W.
regards
[/quote]
Stick your regards up your arse! 🙂
He didnt say that on the update I saw this morning!
S
Squiggles
Guest
It'll be a farce if this goes through.
'Experts' can bleat on all day about making the Premiership more competitive, etc, but the simple fact is the the top teams represent the league in Europe, and the only way to measure the best teams is over a long, hard football season.
This simple, correct logic will be lost amongst Premiership Chairmen, though, who only naturally will be looking after the interests of their own club, and their own interests would be to fluke their way to tens of millions of extra money.
'Experts' can bleat on all day about making the Premiership more competitive, etc, but the simple fact is the the top teams represent the league in Europe, and the only way to measure the best teams is over a long, hard football season.
This simple, correct logic will be lost amongst Premiership Chairmen, though, who only naturally will be looking after the interests of their own club, and their own interests would be to fluke their way to tens of millions of extra money.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38925.msg1055100#msg1055100 date=1266334502]
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
You wouldn't say that if it was us that won tonight.
And some people put this competition over the Premier League title. It's nothing more than a cash cow that is getting milked to death. 'Champions' League? It's a joke.
[/quote]
You wouldn't say that if it was us that won tonight.
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