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Xabi Alonso & Sergio Ramos

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[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223136#msg1223136 date=1290597446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]
Maybe so. You said 'all the time' and that was what I responded too.

I can understand why players would consider speculate on it as it's probably a silly rule. It was just so Mourinho-like to see the way Real's players were exploiting it last night.

You can defend them as much you want. In my opinion they should be given a fine and perhaps even a 1-game added suspension. Would serve them right. The Ajax-fans and players were obviously livid but at the same time only few understood what was going on.

It wasn't pretty.
[/quote]It does happen all the time. But this conversation was about you saying youd hate to see our lads doing it. They do, everyone does.
At least the espanol's did it with style.
 
Meh. People would be up in arms if they were actually suspended for an important game. A good way of getting around a shitty rule if you ask me.

Plus it was funny.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223142#msg1223142 date=1290597698]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223139#msg1223139 date=1290597511]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223132#msg1223132 date=1290597260]
I hate players being banned for accumulation of yellows anyway, it often deprives tournaments / cups of their best players at the latter stages, which is all rather disappointing. I don't have a problem with this at all.
[/quote]

Yeah I hate it too but it's a bit of a double-edged sword because if there weren't bans then yellows would be rendered almost meaningless in most cases.
[/quote]

I know there's problems, and I don't have the answer, perhaps yellows result in a deferred ban to be served at the beginning of the next tournament, I don't know.
[/quote]

Yep it's a difficult question. Maybe something like if your team overall has fewer than X number of yellows then the ban isn't enforced. Or something.
 
Who was mad at Ngog when he blatantly dived to get a penality against B'ham last season that got us a point? (Apart from DB)
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223142#msg1223142 date=1290597698]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223139#msg1223139 date=1290597511]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223132#msg1223132 date=1290597260]
I hate players being banned for accumulation of yellows anyway, it often deprives tournaments / cups of their best players at the latter stages, which is all rather disappointing. I don't have a problem with this at all.
[/quote]

Yeah I hate it too but it's a bit of a double-edged sword because if there weren't bans then yellows would be rendered almost meaningless in most cases.
[/quote]

I know there's problems, and I don't have the answer, perhaps yellows result in a deferred ban to be served at the beginning of the next tournament, I don't know.
[/quote]A yellow card is in game to stop a player fouling again. Its got nothing to do with the next game.
 
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223135#msg1223135 date=1290597386]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]

See.

Also I bet if one D. Agger was the culprit there'd be goggles involved in vindicating him 😉-
[/quote]
HA! You'd lose that bet.

I know double-standards are expected on here but whenever someone is acting blatantly unfair or disrespectful for the game - this no matter their colours - I'd be against it.

I'm not saying I can't see Alonso and Ramos' interest here and the rule is there to exploited it was just rather abysmal scenes to watch in game of footy.

Germany and Austria met in the last game of their WC-group back in 1982 and already knew that a draw would take them both through whereas a win to either team would knock the other team out. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a team has got to go for the win - so by your logic it was fair-play that they chosed NOT to play and just pass the ball around for sixty minutes? They exploited a rule back then disgracing the name of football just as Mourinho, Alonso and Ramos did last night.
 
This thread started with a really funny clip and since then got very boring, very quickly.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223149#msg1223149 date=1290597920]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223142#msg1223142 date=1290597698]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223139#msg1223139 date=1290597511]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=42907.msg1223132#msg1223132 date=1290597260]
I hate players being banned for accumulation of yellows anyway, it often deprives tournaments / cups of their best players at the latter stages, which is all rather disappointing. I don't have a problem with this at all.
[/quote]

Yeah I hate it too but it's a bit of a double-edged sword because if there weren't bans then yellows would be rendered almost meaningless in most cases.
[/quote]

I know there's problems, and I don't have the answer, perhaps yellows result in a deferred ban to be served at the beginning of the next tournament, I don't know.
[/quote]A yellow card is in game to stop a player fouling again. Its got nothing to do with the next game.
[/quote]

If that was the case someone like Christiano Ronaldo and Messi would be kicked 5 times in every match when nearing the 90. minute.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223144#msg1223144 date=1290597789]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223136#msg1223136 date=1290597446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]
Maybe so. You said 'all the time' and that was what I responded too.

I can understand why players would consider speculate on it as it's probably a silly rule. It was just so Mourinho-like to see the way Real's players were exploiting it last night.

You can defend them as much you want. In my opinion they should be given a fine and perhaps even a 1-game added suspension. Would serve them right. The Ajax-fans and players were obviously livid but at the same time only few understood what was going on.

It wasn't pretty.
[/quote]It does happen all the time. But this conversation was about you saying youd hate to see our lads doing it. They do, everyone does.
At least the espanol's did it with style.
[/quote]
In style?

Look at the pictures. Does that look 'stylish' to you?

There wasn't anything stylish about it that's for sure.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223155#msg1223155 date=1290598478]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223144#msg1223144 date=1290597789]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223136#msg1223136 date=1290597446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]
Maybe so. You said 'all the time' and that was what I responded too.

I can understand why players would consider speculate on it as it's probably a silly rule. It was just so Mourinho-like to see the way Real's players were exploiting it last night.

You can defend them as much you want. In my opinion they should be given a fine and perhaps even a 1-game added suspension. Would serve them right. The Ajax-fans and players were obviously livid but at the same time only few understood what was going on.

It wasn't pretty.
[/quote]It does happen all the time. But this conversation was about you saying youd hate to see our lads doing it. They do, everyone does.
At least the espanol's did it with style.
[/quote]
In style?

Look at the pictures. Does that look 'stylish' to you?

There wasn't anything stylish about it that's for sure.
[/quote]

I mean, I thought they both looked pretty good.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223152#msg1223152 date=1290598201]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223135#msg1223135 date=1290597386]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]

See.

Also I bet if one D. Agger was the culprit there'd be goggles involved in vindicating him 😉-
[/quote]
HA! You'd lose that bet.

I know double-standards are expected on here but whenever someone is acting blatantly unfair or disrespectful for the game - this no matter their colours - I'd be against it.

I'm not saying I can't see Alonso and Ramos' interest here and the rule is there to exploited it was just rather abysmal scenes to watch in game of footy.

Germany and Austria met in the last game of their WC-group back in 1982 and already knew that a draw would take them both through whereas a win to either team would knock the other team out. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a team has got to go for the win - so by your logic it was fair-play that they chosed NOT to play and just pass the ball around for sixty minutes? They exploited a rule back then disgracing the name of football just as Mourinho, Alonso and Ramos did last night.
[/quote]

Ad did Sweden and Denmark in Euro 2004. They did it a bit more discreetly scoring in turns and the game ending 2-2 but everyone knew what was going on. It happens.
 
They twisted a shit law to their advantage and hurt nobody in the process.

Get over it already.
 
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223158#msg1223158 date=1290598592]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223152#msg1223152 date=1290598201]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223135#msg1223135 date=1290597386]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]

See.

Also I bet if one D. Agger was the culprit there'd be goggles involved in vindicating him 😉-
[/quote]
HA! You'd lose that bet.

I know double-standards are expected on here but whenever someone is acting blatantly unfair or disrespectful for the game - this no matter their colours - I'd be against it.

I'm not saying I can't see Alonso and Ramos' interest here and the rule is there to exploited it was just rather abysmal scenes to watch in game of footy.

Germany and Austria met in the last game of their WC-group back in 1982 and already knew that a draw would take them both through whereas a win to either team would knock the other team out. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a team has got to go for the win - so by your logic it was fair-play that they chosed NOT to play and just pass the ball around for sixty minutes? They exploited a rule back then disgracing the name of football just as Mourinho, Alonso and Ramos did last night.
[/quote]

Ad did Sweden and Denmark in Euro 2004. They did it a bit more discreetly scoring in turns and the game ending 2-2 but everyone knew what was going on. It happens.
[/quote]
Indeed.

The thing is rules were changed after Germany and Austria's demonstrative 0-0-draw so final group-games would be played simultaneously.

The rules should be changed accordingly after Real's blatant misuse of them last night too. As has already been said delete yellow cards when you enter the Quarters as been done in the WC.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42907.msg1223156#msg1223156 date=1290598524]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223155#msg1223155 date=1290598478]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223144#msg1223144 date=1290597789]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223136#msg1223136 date=1290597446]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]
Maybe so. You said 'all the time' and that was what I responded too.

I can understand why players would consider speculate on it as it's probably a silly rule. It was just so Mourinho-like to see the way Real's players were exploiting it last night.

You can defend them as much you want. In my opinion they should be given a fine and perhaps even a 1-game added suspension. Would serve them right. The Ajax-fans and players were obviously livid but at the same time only few understood what was going on.

It wasn't pretty.
[/quote]It does happen all the time. But this conversation was about you saying youd hate to see our lads doing it. They do, everyone does.
At least the espanol's did it with style.
[/quote]
In style?

Look at the pictures. Does that look 'stylish' to you?

There wasn't anything stylish about it that's for sure.
[/quote]

I mean, I thought they both looked pretty good.
[/quote]
I'm not going to dispute that.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223165#msg1223165 date=1290598908]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223158#msg1223158 date=1290598592]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223152#msg1223152 date=1290598201]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223135#msg1223135 date=1290597386]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42907.msg1223129#msg1223129 date=1290596992]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223127#msg1223127 date=1290596892]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=42907.msg1223123#msg1223123 date=1290596307]
If it was Stevie and Carra did it no one would have a problem. In fact our red goggles would probably disguise the fact that they got themselves sent off on purpose and we'd all be celebrating the fact that they'd both be yellow card free in the knockout stages.
[/quote]
I don't really get why people always suggest these things, that we are blind towards our own players/managers wrong-doings whenever it's for the greater good.

I'd hate to see our players try to get themselves red-carded for no matter the reason. It's not sportsmanship.
[/quote]Dirk Kuyt did it about 4 years ago. FACT.
[/quote]

See.

Also I bet if one D. Agger was the culprit there'd be goggles involved in vindicating him 😉-
[/quote]
HA! You'd lose that bet.

I know double-standards are expected on here but whenever someone is acting blatantly unfair or disrespectful for the game - this no matter their colours - I'd be against it.

I'm not saying I can't see Alonso and Ramos' interest here and the rule is there to exploited it was just rather abysmal scenes to watch in game of footy.

Germany and Austria met in the last game of their WC-group back in 1982 and already knew that a draw would take them both through whereas a win to either team would knock the other team out. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a team has got to go for the win - so by your logic it was fair-play that they chosed NOT to play and just pass the ball around for sixty minutes? They exploited a rule back then disgracing the name of football just as Mourinho, Alonso and Ramos did last night.
[/quote]

Ad did Sweden and Denmark in Euro 2004. They did it a bit more discreetly scoring in turns and the game ending 2-2 but everyone knew what was going on. It happens.
[/quote]
Indeed.

The thing is rules were changed after Germany and Austria's demonstrative 0-0-draw so final group-games would be played simultaneously.

The rules should be changed accordingly after Real's blatant misuse of them last night too. As has already been said delete yellow cards when you enter the Quarters as been done in the WC.
[/quote]

Well yeah I think almost everyone agrees that rules should be changed somehow but demonizing Real for this is laughable and hypocritical.
 
There's always someone who'll go the full monty when it comes to exploiting rules or gaps. You could argue that Real perhaps made the game a favour last night as a change in rule has got to be made now.

That doesn't change the fact that they appeared vey cynical and unfair.
 
Did we not do something similar against PSV in the CL quarters a while back, with a couple of players getting cheeky yellows to miss the return leg after we were already 0-3 up?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42907.msg1223177#msg1223177 date=1290600172]
Unfair to who?
[/quote]
Didn't you find this thread boring?

Anyways it certainly didn't strike me as something that was in the best interest of football.

Watching otherwise great players make a complete fool of themselves whilst ruining the last ten minutes of a Champions League game - with Alonso and Ramos dancing around the ball refusing to kick it in hope of a red card - was disrespectful. For the fans, the Ajax-players and the game in general.

You could argue it was as cynical as Germanys and Austrias infamous 0-0 game back in 82. Had Real not been in cruise control in their group they wouldn't have dared to act like this hence they are giving themselves an advantage ahead of their opponents in the Quarters. Unless of course we'll now see loads of these unfair shenanigans from other top clubs as well.

As you apparently wouldn't mind.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42907.msg1223177#msg1223177 date=1290600172]
Unfair to who?
[/quote]

Well potentially the team who they will play in R16 with both those players eligible to play.

Its clearly exploitation of the rules and I'm not sure why anybody is surprised about it. It goes on, but its not against the rules of the game although you can argue its not in the spirit of the game. But then, when has Mourinho been bothered about that tbf.
 
I have no problem with resting players when you're through, as you've earned that right.

The yellow card business is pretty shit though. Since the next game ins meaningless, postpone their ban until a game that matters (although that's setting a risky precedent I guess).
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42907.msg1223188#msg1223188 date=1290601417]
'Unfair to Football'

Haha, k.
[/quote]

As you were.
 
So what. Players dive, get players unfairly booked and sent off, lie to refs etc. This is no different.

Football is not a 'fair' game.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42907.msg1223196#msg1223196 date=1290602152]
So what. Players dive, get players unfairly booked and sent off, lie to refs etc. This is no different.

Football is not a 'fair' game.
[/quote]
Aahhh ok, I see.

So we should just accept it then?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42907.msg1223196#msg1223196 date=1290602152]
So what. Players dive, get players unfairly booked and sent off, lie to refs etc. This is no different.

Football is not a 'fair' game.
[/quote]

That doesn't make it right though.

Goal line technology is the main talking point within football, but if they could sort out one thing I'd want it to be diving.

Won't happen though.
 
That is absolutely brilliant.
Ramos shaking the refs hand is great and Alonso is like his brain stalls and he doesnt know what to do.

I really really miss Alonso.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=42907.msg1223197#msg1223197 date=1290602242]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42907.msg1223196#msg1223196 date=1290602152]
So what. Players dive, get players unfairly booked and sent off, lie to refs etc. This is no different.

Football is not a 'fair' game.
[/quote]
Aahhh ok, I see.

So we should just accept it then?
[/quote]

It's getting really tiresome but no we shouldn't just accept it but we shouldn't single out Real either as this is done every year by every club in position to do so.

I agree with your earlier comment about this perhaps highlighting a rule that needs tweaking.
 
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=42907.msg1223203#msg1223203 date=1290602905]
It's getting really tiresome but no we shouldn't just accept it but we shouldn't single out Real either as this is done every year by every club in position to do so.
[/quote]

I can't stand Real, but yeah pretty much.
 
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