Nice interview from Masch. Pity he couldn't come and say he was staying. So who thinks hes gone in the summer then. If he does then at least he won't be going down the road. I fucking love him, he best stay.
Will he stay or will he go.
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Squiggles
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I'm not scared at the prospect of losing Mascherano, at least I should say nowhere near as I was when Xabi was rumoured to be leaving. Firstly, it's because I know he would command a big fee - and secondly, defensive midfield players are easier to find and generally fit in well to the English game with little adaptation period needed. Our league suits all the defensive midfielder's attributes.
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
However, despite all this, I do wish he would stay a red, because we're desperately lacking in quality all over the park and so having another world class player leave us would be a real kick in the teeth, and would be an unwelcome distraction for the upcoming summer. Also the attitude and commitment he's displayed in the last few months has been exemplary. During the first half of the season I was wondering where is the Argentinian Captain going to show up and stamp his authority not just on one game, but on our faltering season. It took a while, but it's been worth the wait.
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
However, despite all this, I do wish he would stay a red, because we're desperately lacking in quality all over the park and so having another world class player leave us would be a real kick in the teeth, and would be an unwelcome distraction for the upcoming summer. Also the attitude and commitment he's displayed in the last few months has been exemplary. During the first half of the season I was wondering where is the Argentinian Captain going to show up and stamp his authority not just on one game, but on our faltering season. It took a while, but it's been worth the wait.
Agreed. He's giving a fair few "rallying the troops"-type interviews these days and that's not what I'd expect from a guy who was looking to leave any time soon. I never saw any evidence that he personally wanted to go anyway - it was always to do with his missus being unsettled. Perhaps they've sorted that between them. I certainly hope so.
If Barca come in for him, I'd expect Mascher to leave. But at the moment they seem more interested in Fabregas, and I doubt whether they could afford both. Apart from that, I think the deciding factor will be whether we qualify for the CL or not.
Needless to say, I want him to stay. If we sold him, it'd be just another sign to the world that we're a club in decline. We have to hold on to our best players.
Needless to say, I want him to stay. If we sold him, it'd be just another sign to the world that we're a club in decline. We have to hold on to our best players.
I'd be amazed if he sticks round in the summer. Amazed.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1056910#msg1056910 date=1266628640]
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
[/quote]
I think you've got it the wrong way round to be honest. Masher isn't as specialized as people often seem to suggest, but regardless of that, it is he that is there to address the balance between attack and defence - particularly in the current formation. It's our other shitty midfielders that are the problem and you don't compensate for that by removing players who are actually doing their job from the equation.
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
[/quote]
I think you've got it the wrong way round to be honest. Masher isn't as specialized as people often seem to suggest, but regardless of that, it is he that is there to address the balance between attack and defence - particularly in the current formation. It's our other shitty midfielders that are the problem and you don't compensate for that by removing players who are actually doing their job from the equation.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057001#msg1057001 date=1266667045]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1056910#msg1056910 date=1266628640]
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
[/quote]
I think you've got it the wrong way round to be honest. Masher isn't as specialized as people often seem to suggest, but regardless of that, it is he that is there to address the balance between attack and defence - particularly in the current formation. It's our other shitty midfielders that are the problem and you don't compensate for that by removing players who are actually doing their job from the equation.
[/quote]
We'll agree to disagree on the 'specialised' description, because I think he personifies the word TBH, although it's not meant to detract from his obvious quality. And I must stress that it's not a compensation I'd make through choice, but if he decided to leave and Barca came in for him, there is a strong case for going towards a DM more in the Didi role, someone who can at least stroke the ball around the park and contribute albeit slightly in an attacking sense.
Clearly Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean that far more is asked of a partner alongside him. It harks back to Brendan's thread really, whereby each one of our players requires someone else alongside them either for them to be effective or for the team to be effective.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1056910#msg1056910 date=1266628640]
Also, I sometimes have doubts about whether he is too specialised to play for our club - one that is not blessed with lots of attacking talent, and so maybe a more rounded defensive midfielder would be more suited to our game. Having a well balanced footballing side is so crucial in football and to a degree Mascherano is part of the problem.
[/quote]
I think you've got it the wrong way round to be honest. Masher isn't as specialized as people often seem to suggest, but regardless of that, it is he that is there to address the balance between attack and defence - particularly in the current formation. It's our other shitty midfielders that are the problem and you don't compensate for that by removing players who are actually doing their job from the equation.
[/quote]
We'll agree to disagree on the 'specialised' description, because I think he personifies the word TBH, although it's not meant to detract from his obvious quality. And I must stress that it's not a compensation I'd make through choice, but if he decided to leave and Barca came in for him, there is a strong case for going towards a DM more in the Didi role, someone who can at least stroke the ball around the park and contribute albeit slightly in an attacking sense.
Clearly Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean that far more is asked of a partner alongside him. It harks back to Brendan's thread really, whereby each one of our players requires someone else alongside them either for them to be effective or for the team to be effective.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057079#msg1057079 date=1266681657]
Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are obviously the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean more is asked of a partner alongside him.
[/quote]
The way you are putting your argument forward, one would get the impression that it's a relatively uncommon or undesirable scenario when it's far from it.
Arsenal have Song who relies on those around him to attack, Mikel is the same when he plays for Chelsea, City have a rather limited De Jong anchoring the midfield and so forth.
If he goes and we somehow end up with the next Michael Essien, we probably won't be complaining too much, but what's the likelihood of that happening and more to the point, does such a player exist?
Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are obviously the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean more is asked of a partner alongside him.
[/quote]
The way you are putting your argument forward, one would get the impression that it's a relatively uncommon or undesirable scenario when it's far from it.
Arsenal have Song who relies on those around him to attack, Mikel is the same when he plays for Chelsea, City have a rather limited De Jong anchoring the midfield and so forth.
If he goes and we somehow end up with the next Michael Essien, we probably won't be complaining too much, but what's the likelihood of that happening and more to the point, does such a player exist?
I do see some of the limitations with Masher, but he is a world-class (defensive) midfielder, and - given Gerrard's advanced role - the only one we have
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
Agree with all of that, but one side effect has been to force Masher to improve his passing. The other night against Urinesample he sprayed it around (if you'll pardon the expression) quite nicely until Stevie G arrived in CM beside him - where he should have been playing all season - and took over.
Given the plethora of average players in our squad, losing a player of Mascherano's calibre would be a big blow. Plus I wouldn't trust Rafa to bring in a suitable replacement. That's if he was given the cash to anyway.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=38974.msg1057097#msg1057097 date=1266683763]
Given the plethora of average players in our squad, losing a player of Mascherano's calibre would be a big blow. Plus I wouldn't trust Rafa to bring in a suitable replacement. That's if he was given the cash to anyway.
[/quote]
X 2
Given the plethora of average players in our squad, losing a player of Mascherano's calibre would be a big blow. Plus I wouldn't trust Rafa to bring in a suitable replacement. That's if he was given the cash to anyway.
[/quote]
X 2
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057083#msg1057083 date=1266682150]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057079#msg1057079 date=1266681657]
Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are obviously the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean more is asked of a partner alongside him.
[/quote]
The way you are putting your argument forward, one would get the impression that it's a relatively uncommon or undesirable scenario when it's far from it.
Arsenal have Song who relies on those around him to attack, Mikel is the same when he plays for Chelsea, City have a rather limited De Jong anchoring the midfield and so forth.
If he goes and we somehow end up with the next Michael Essien, we probably won't be complaining too much, but what's the likelihood of that happening and more to the point, does such a player exist?
[/quote]
Each of the teams mentioned are compensated better suited to deal with a player of this type, though. We aren't as blessed in attacking talent, nor midfielder's who can link up the midfield and attack effectively. Mikel's played 3 games all year so that's neither here or there really and when he does, he's often alongside Ballack, Lampard & co to take the pressure off his shoulders. Arsenal clearly have superb footballs in abundance and City, likewise. Ideally we'd keep Masher and look to do something similar by injecting other positions with more creative talent - but if is looking to leave then for £30M we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057079#msg1057079 date=1266681657]
Lucas, and to a growing extent, Aquilani, are obviously the bigger problems - but I do believe Javier's limitations over the half way line do mean more is asked of a partner alongside him.
[/quote]
The way you are putting your argument forward, one would get the impression that it's a relatively uncommon or undesirable scenario when it's far from it.
Arsenal have Song who relies on those around him to attack, Mikel is the same when he plays for Chelsea, City have a rather limited De Jong anchoring the midfield and so forth.
If he goes and we somehow end up with the next Michael Essien, we probably won't be complaining too much, but what's the likelihood of that happening and more to the point, does such a player exist?
[/quote]
Each of the teams mentioned are compensated better suited to deal with a player of this type, though. We aren't as blessed in attacking talent, nor midfielder's who can link up the midfield and attack effectively. Mikel's played 3 games all year so that's neither here or there really and when he does, he's often alongside Ballack, Lampard & co to take the pressure off his shoulders. Arsenal clearly have superb footballs in abundance and City, likewise. Ideally we'd keep Masher and look to do something similar by injecting other positions with more creative talent - but if is looking to leave then for £30M we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
I think this argument is pretty circular tho; Mascher isn't the reason our attack is so blunt.
Yes, he is replaceable; but it'd be MUCH better if we could actually find the creative attacking talent we so desperately need free to roam the opponent's half at will secure in the knowledge that there is a rock at DM ready to snuff out any danger.
The stuff dreams are made of, apparently 🙁
Yes, he is replaceable; but it'd be MUCH better if we could actually find the creative attacking talent we so desperately need free to roam the opponent's half at will secure in the knowledge that there is a rock at DM ready to snuff out any danger.
The stuff dreams are made of, apparently 🙁
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38974.msg1057088#msg1057088 date=1266683014]
I do see some of the limitations with Masher, but he is a world-class (defensive) midfielder, and - given Gerrard's advanced role - the only one we have
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
[/quote]
I agree. Lucas and Mascherano just offers nothing going forward. The Lucas sympathisers regularly blame Mascherano's limited passing for this, which is obviously garbage as Mascherano is the DM of the pair.
Id be upset if we lost Mascherano but I expect it to happen.
I do see some of the limitations with Masher, but he is a world-class (defensive) midfielder, and - given Gerrard's advanced role - the only one we have
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
[/quote]
I agree. Lucas and Mascherano just offers nothing going forward. The Lucas sympathisers regularly blame Mascherano's limited passing for this, which is obviously garbage as Mascherano is the DM of the pair.
Id be upset if we lost Mascherano but I expect it to happen.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=38974.msg1057120#msg1057120 date=1266686320]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38974.msg1057088#msg1057088 date=1266683014]
I do see some of the limitations with Masher, but he is a world-class (defensive) midfielder, and - given Gerrard's advanced role - the only one we have
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
[/quote]
I agree. Lucas and Mascherano just offers nothing going forward. The Lucas sympathisers regularly blame Mascherano's limited passing for this, which is obviously garbage as Mascherano is the DM of the pair.
Id be upset if we lost Mascherano but I expect it to happen.
[/quote]
We would tortured by the pairing of them last season, we saw it a few times and in that snapshot we realised that it wasn't a partnership that did us any favours. We drew solace from the fact that it was only the odd game as Alonso played regularly to relieve the monotony of Lucas and Masher as a pairing. This season it has been our first choice pairing and it's been very frustrating at times.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38974.msg1057088#msg1057088 date=1266683014]
I do see some of the limitations with Masher, but he is a world-class (defensive) midfielder, and - given Gerrard's advanced role - the only one we have
I'm pretty sure some fucking bing-bong has said in the past that Lucas is his back-up, or even replacement, which is a sick joke indeed
Him and Gerrard would be an amazing CM partnership, but all too often this season, poor old Masher has been lumbered with fucking Lucas, which is a hellish CM duo
[/quote]
I agree. Lucas and Mascherano just offers nothing going forward. The Lucas sympathisers regularly blame Mascherano's limited passing for this, which is obviously garbage as Mascherano is the DM of the pair.
Id be upset if we lost Mascherano but I expect it to happen.
[/quote]
We would tortured by the pairing of them last season, we saw it a few times and in that snapshot we realised that it wasn't a partnership that did us any favours. We drew solace from the fact that it was only the odd game as Alonso played regularly to relieve the monotony of Lucas and Masher as a pairing. This season it has been our first choice pairing and it's been very frustrating at times.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057127#msg1057127 date=1266687420]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
From what I can remember Squiggles hasn't ever really warmed to Masher and seems to be willing to sell him for some time. Perhaps I'm casting aspirsions, apologies if so.
I think we should be very careful if we consider to sell Masher. He is a world class player and will be harder to replace than many think. Diarra who would be a possible solution but he cost 18 million and I doubt Madrid would be quick to sell.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
From what I can remember Squiggles hasn't ever really warmed to Masher and seems to be willing to sell him for some time. Perhaps I'm casting aspirsions, apologies if so.
I think we should be very careful if we consider to sell Masher. He is a world class player and will be harder to replace than many think. Diarra who would be a possible solution but he cost 18 million and I doubt Madrid would be quick to sell.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057127#msg1057127 date=1266687420]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
Joao Mouthino?
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
Joao Mouthino?
... and Steven Defour hasn't been signed up yet. He could be another possibility.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38974.msg1057155#msg1057155 date=1266692893]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057127#msg1057127 date=1266687420]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
Joao Mouthino?
[/quote]
I thought he was an AM? There is no way I could see him doing Masch's job -
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38974.msg1057127#msg1057127 date=1266687420]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38974.msg1057101#msg1057101 date=1266684192]we can look to create a better balanced midfield by finding a central midfield player with a greater passing range. That isn't asking for an "Essien".
It's got to come from somewhere.
[/quote]
Okay, so we need someone who has considerable defensive qualities, but one that is also a good footballer in his own right. Who can we sign?
[/quote]
Joao Mouthino?
[/quote]
I thought he was an AM? There is no way I could see him doing Masch's job -
He is a CM with a greater passing range than Mash.
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38974.msg1057164#msg1057164 date=1266693614]
He is a CM with a greater passing range than Mash.
[/quote]
... i know he's a very capable attacking player, but there's no point in replacing a world class DM with a player who cannot play DM at a high level. That would leave us with Lucas as our primary DM ...
He is a CM with a greater passing range than Mash.
[/quote]
... i know he's a very capable attacking player, but there's no point in replacing a world class DM with a player who cannot play DM at a high level. That would leave us with Lucas as our primary DM ...
i dont want Mascher to leave... He is one of the few players this season to make me proud..
The joy of having such an amazing defensive midfielder is that it allows you to be more attacking and attack with larger numbers - Unfortunately Rafa plays 451 with 2 defensive midfielders... Bonkers.
The joy of having such an amazing defensive midfielder is that it allows you to be more attacking and attack with larger numbers - Unfortunately Rafa plays 451 with 2 defensive midfielders... Bonkers.
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