Who would you bring in?

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42145.msg1205618#msg1205618 date=1288026487]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42145.msg1205611#msg1205611 date=1288026301]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42145.msg1205604#msg1205604 date=1288026011]
No revolution please. Doesn't work. Ask Souness.
[/quote]

you can't use souness as an example for revolution, ffs.
how about wenger, once upon a time the arsenal were a fucking boring team, now look at them. okay, they haven't won anything for a while but the change whinger brought in grabbed arsenal three league titles.
[/quote]

I can use Souness as an example, because that's exactly what he brought in. Loads of babies were thrown out with the bathwater and we're still suffering for it. A change in playing style dosn't qualify as a "revolution". FFS.
[/quote]

to be fair wenger left the back line completely unchanged but it was a very good back line.
for the record I don't think there are enough 'untouchables' in the squad to worry about making big changes.
say if the manager wanted to change the entire forward line (torres aside) what's the problem?
or if he wanted to change most of the midfield?
or if he wanted to change most of the defense?
souness came into a team that were champions elect and made massive changes, we on the other hand are in the relagation zone.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205623#msg1205623 date=1288026680]
The difference with Souness is that he took over a team who were Champions and still with an outside chance of retaining the title. He took a sledgehammer to the squad too early.

Any manager we get will take over a club that finished 7th last year, is poorly placed this year, playing like shit and has a smallish squad consisting of some star players and a quite a bit of crap.

[/quote]

well, quite.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205623#msg1205623 date=1288026680]
The difference with Souness is that he took over a team who were Champions and still with an outside chance of retaining the title. He took a sledgehammer to the squad too early.

Any manager we get will take over a club that finished 7th last year, is poorly placed this year, playing like shit and has a smallish squad consisting of some star players and a quite a bit of crap.

[/quote]

Souness Sold: (in his first year:

David Speedie Blackburn £500,000 Aug 1991
Peter Beardsley Everton £1,000,000 05.08.1991
Steve Staunton Aston Villa £1,100,000 07.08.1991
Gary Gillespie Celtic £900,000 15.08.1991
Jimmy Carter Arsenal £500,000 08.10.1991
Steve McMahon Man City £900,000 24.12.1991
Gary Ablett Everton £750,000 13.01.1992
Glenn Hysen GAIS Free 01.05.1992
David Collins Oxford Free 01.06.1992
Barry Jones Wrexham Free 10.07.1992
Ray Houghton Aston Villa £825,000 28.07.1992
Barry Venison Newcastle £250,000 31.07.1992

 

[Squiggles]

Beardsley went to Everton?

How did that go down?

 

[Avmenon]

Very well, at least at Everton.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42145.msg1205627#msg1205627 date=1288026871]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205623#msg1205623 date=1288026680]
The difference with Souness is that he took over a team who were Champions and still with an outside chance of retaining the title. He took a sledgehammer to the squad too early.

Any manager we get will take over a club that finished 7th last year, is poorly placed this year, playing like shit and has a smallish squad consisting of some star players and a quite a bit of crap.

[/quote]

well, quite.
[/quote]

No, not quite. The squad have been playing like houseplants (though yesterday was a lot better) but they're underperforming to a significant extent and are defo capable of better if properly led and prepared. We've needed quite far-reaching change at times in the past too, but it was never brought in all at once. That's just one of the things we need to get back to.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42145.msg1205629#msg1205629 date=1288027003]
Beardsley went to Everton?

How did that go down?
[/quote]

Souness came in on the back of some good results at Rangers.

He came in, demolished the boot room (literlly), made changes to lots of things, and put players he considered 'past it' out to pasture.

(Beardlsey and Houghton bein good examples)


Ordinarily this isnt so surprising,bu as Liverpool managers have found out very often, you shouldnt replace good players with worse players, the way Souness basically replaced Beardsley with Dean Saunders.

 

[peterhague]

fuckng hell, souness was a crap manager. what a fucking disaster, even though i was only 11 when he was sacked i can remember the completely depressing feeling of his time in charge.

to take perhaps the best squad of players in the league (if not without problems) and lead it to 2 6th place finishes is fucking criminal. although as others have pointed out it was even worse than that because he sold a load of decent players and largely replaced them with garbage.

 

[Squiggles]

I knew Bearsley was never a red at heart, but I'm surprised he had the balls to cross Stanley Park.

 

[keniget]

The BBC gossip page had that story from caughtoffside.com, which means it's bollocks.

 

[Richey]

I will say in fairness to Souness that we had an unbelievable amount of injuries then, so as well as the players he sold we also lost the likes of Whelan, Barnes and Rush for much of that first season.

It didn't make it easy, and his signings being shit made matters worse of course.

On the plus side he did bring a lot of youngsters through - because he had to probably! - and some of them became great players for us.

 

[Wilko7]

Souness was a disaster. Peter Beardsley had many years left in him and started for Newcastle against us in the first 4-3 win almost FIVE years later.

 

[Squiggles]

I heard Cisse owns that site.

 

[localny]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42145.msg1205654#msg1205654 date=1288027958]
I heard Cisse owns that site.
[/quote]

LOL, and Baros started his own one - "CornerFlag.com". There's a throwback!

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205650#msg1205650 date=1288027841]
I will say in fairness to Souness that we had an unbelievable amount of injuries then, so as well as the players he sold we also lost the likes of Whelan, Barnes and Rush for much of that first season.

It didn't make it easy, and his signings being shit made matters worse of course.

On the plus side he did bring a lot of youngsters through - because he had to probably! - and some of them became great players for us.
[/quote]


weren't there whispers that his new training regime was causing a lot of the injuries? he had exactly the same problem at newcastle.

whatever, to take over that squad and have players like redknapp, mcmanaman, fowler and tanner coming through, and win just THREE away games in his first season was absolutely abysmal.

 

[Richey]

Not sure i would place Tanner alongside McManaman, Fowler and Redknapp! He was a woeful player!

I do agree that Souness was shit, and yes his training regime may well have influenced the injury record.

However, I was just saying that, for whatever reason, he did blood some youngsters, which was good.

 

[Richey]

Jules, i agree that making big changes quickly is not a good idea at all but i do think we will need a bigger set of changes than we might have done at other times.

You may know more than I do but didn't Shanks make quite a big and rather quick change of his team after that defeat at Watford?

 

[peterhague]

i was joking about tanner. tbf souness brought in rob jones, no doubt his best signing.

but some of the bollocks he comes out with on tv is astounding. i remember back in 2005 he was talking about ac milan - it might have been the man utd tie - and he was saying how he couldn't back them because they didn't have any 'special' players, the sort who could win you a game. of a team including kaka, cafu, shevchenko. then by the semi-final he thought milan would win it - why? - they had more 'special' players.

he's a complete fucking gobshite.

 

[Hansern]

Rob Jones debut at Old Trafford must surely be one of the best ever. Shame injuries ruined what would have been a great career.

 

[the count]

It is such a dissapointment, to have gone away for a few hours, see that this thread has grown quickly by about four pages, and then discover that people are discussing previous mangagement failures, rather than an imminent appoitment of an exciting new one 🙁

 

[spider-Neil]

again, there is a massive difference between flinging out the likes of mcmahon, beardo etc and breaking up the current squad where there is literally only a handleful of truly quality players.

if we have tread water I'd rather it were building towards something and the like of torres getting fucked off doesn't worry me as much as it used to. band aids on a shark bite is not going to fix the current mess we find ourselves in, we need to step back and really plan what direction we are going to take next. pretty much what the germans did with their international team.

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=the count link=topic=42145.msg1205671#msg1205671 date=1288030148]
It is such a dissapointment, to have gone away for a few hours, see that this thread has grown quickly by about four pages, and then discover that people are discussing previous mangagement failures, rather than an imminent appoitment of an exciting new one 🙁
[/quote]

We've been linked with Quique Sanchez Flores today, does that help mate? 🙂

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205650#msg1205650 date=1288027841]
I will say in fairness to Souness that we had an unbelievable amount of injuries then, so as well as the players he sold we also lost the likes of Whelan, Barnes and Rush for much of that first season.

It didn't make it easy, and his signings being shit made matters worse of course.

On the plus side he did bring a lot of youngsters through - because he had to probably! - and some of them became great players for us.
[/quote]

Souness almost certainly was partly to blame for the injuries too. Back in Shanks' day the players initially used to get a bath at Melwood. Then the facilities were updated, so while that was happening they were bussed back to Anfield for a bath after training, and it was noticed that the number of injuries went down a fair bit, so the first team kept that practice going for years (this coincides with what sport science knows now about the importance of properly warming down). Then Souness arrived and, among other things (like the destruction of the original boot room as Avvy rightly says), decided they'd resume the practice of showering down at Melwood. That coincided with the significant rise in the number of injuries which you rightly remember.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42145.msg1205706#msg1205706 date=1288033353]

Souness almost certainly was partly to blame for the injuries too. Back in Shanks' day the players initially used to get a bath at Melwood. Then the facilities were updated, so while that was happening they were bussed back to Anfield for a bath after training, and it was noticed that the number of injuries went down a fair bit, so the first team kept that practice going for years (this coincides with what sport science knows now about the importance of properly warming down). Then Souness arrived and, among other things (like the destruction of the original boot room as Avvy rightly says), decided they'd resume the practice of showering down at Melwood. That coincided with the significant rise in the number of injuries which you rightly remember.
[/quote]

Plus Phil "The Hatchet" Boersma. One of the fanzines used to run a cartoon taking the piss out of him - Phils Bag of Tricks. Player would go down with a bump on the head and Phil the physio would run on and amputate their leg or similar. How we laughed.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42145.msg1205706#msg1205706 date=1288033353]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42145.msg1205650#msg1205650 date=1288027841]
I will say in fairness to Souness that we had an unbelievable amount of injuries then, so as well as the players he sold we also lost the likes of Whelan, Barnes and Rush for much of that first season.

It didn't make it easy, and his signings being shit made matters worse of course.

On the plus side he did bring a lot of youngsters through - because he had to probably! - and some of them became great players for us.
[/quote]

Souness almost certainly was partly to blame for the injuries too. Back in Shanks' day the players initially used to get a bath at Melwood. Then the facilities were updated, so while that was happening they were bussed back to Anfield for a bath after training, and it was noticed that the number of injuries went down a fair bit, so the first team kept that practice going for years (this coincides with what sport science knows now about the importance of properly warming down). Then Souness arrived and, among other things (like the destruction of the original boot room as Avvy rightly says), decided they'd resume the practice of showering down at Melwood. That coincided with the significant rise in the number of injuries which you rightly remember.
[/quote]

and souness has the audacity to have a go at rafa and the 'mess' he left for hodgson. I swear you'd think souness thinks he managed liverpool in a past life or 'someone else' called souness was responsible for destroying a winning team.

 

[RolandG]

Souness is a giant on the field and how we miss that type of player but was absolute rubbish as a manager. What a tit!

 

[Richey]

Did he say that on TV as a pundit? If so then to be fair that's what he is paid for.

He is also a Liverpool fan and entitled to his opinion. Just because he was shit at the job it doesn't mean that he can't give an opinion, especially when that opinion is similar to many other Liverpool fans.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42145.msg1205708#msg1205708 date=1288033720]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42145.msg1205706#msg1205706 date=1288033353]

Souness almost certainly was partly to blame for the injuries too. Back in Shanks' day the players initially used to get a bath at Melwood. Then the facilities were updated, so while that was happening they were bussed back to Anfield for a bath after training, and it was noticed that the number of injuries went down a fair bit, so the first team kept that practice going for years (this coincides with what sport science knows now about the importance of properly warming down). Then Souness arrived and, among other things (like the destruction of the original boot room as Avvy rightly says), decided they'd resume the practice of showering down at Melwood. That coincided with the significant rise in the number of injuries which you rightly remember.
[/quote]

Plus Phil "The Hatchet" Boersma. One of the fanzines used to run a cartoon taking the piss out of him - Phils Bag of Tricks. Player would go down with a bump on the head and Phil the physio would run on and amputate their leg or similar. How we laughed.
[/quote]

Think I remember that actually. Was it The Kop?

 

[the_khl]

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