You sir, are a mentalist
What the fuck. I mean really WTF!
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You sir, are a mentalist
Yeah, because lets face it, in the 6 years he was here we were constantly challenging weren't we? Oh wait...
Come on man... How many times were we in last 16 in CL? How many trips to cardiff? How many top 4 finishes. Progress at that time would mean the title.
That's not what he said Insig, he said he would swap this for challenging for the title with Rafa, we challenged once, and just to put the record straight to the history re-writers, it wasn't in his first season.
But we did win something in his first season, did we not?
In one way I would be polite and say that yes, in a pedantic correct world you are right. However, as both of us know he simply pointed out we were a force to count on at that time, so I would say you just argue a sorry cause for a manager and team you dont wholeheartedly believe in. You are just like 85 % of the rest of us sick and tired of being let down by the players and manager you want to succeed. And in that frustration of dissapoinments all the cheap shots seem even more irritating. Yes they are correct but they dont help us one fucking second right now...
I'm a big fan of the success Rafa brought but it took him 4 years to really challenge and even then it was for 1 year only.
Evans, Ged both did the same but took time.
I read in the mirror today that Rodgers felt his squad was thin because we were challenging on four fronts this season...
Rafa allways seemed to be a slow starter. Rotated and wasted points early on, but we seemed to have the steam through xmas and forward. This took us to semis and finals in europe as well as domestic cups. But it seldom took us all the way in the league. The cup thriumps and CL qualification bought him time. Out of all cups before they start, and fighting for top ten would have sent him right back to Spain i believe. Rafa came here as he had just lifted the UEFA cup and showed strengths in La Liga. I ask again, what has Rodgers actually done to be in this position in the first place? It is fucking insane. What has he to show for that should buy him time?
You outline Rafa's strengths and flaws quite well there Insig, but he had 6yrs at it and ultimately never really got to grips with the league on a consistent basis but was given season upon season to squander money and make the same mistakes over and over and refuse to compromise his philosophy. Rodgers hasn't had a season yet the same folk (who are lauding Rafa) are calling for his head already. What he has or hasn't done is irrelevant, this is different to then, we've opted for a young 'promising' manager, so he warrants some level of persevance and it's not just "for the sake of it" as some people seem to be suggesting. I think at our best we have shown direction and signs of being a good footballing side. We all know our flaws so they don't need going over. Kenny could have got another season and I wouldn't have had many complaints, everyone makes mistakes and deserves time to get it right, like I said, I don't see why that should change for Rodgers because he's less experienced, we're just going at this from a different angle in hoping that a young guy who's shown promise can make it with us. Rafa got time, Kenny deserved more time, so does Rodgers. People just didn't like him from the off because he didn't have honours, fair enough, but all the calling for his head 8 months in is clamoring to your own personal agenda's. He's not getting the same level of support that other, more experienced men with winning experience had, despite them too being far from infallible, and some of the history re-writing as far as Rafa is concerned is laughable.
I agree that it does not make sense to sack him, if there is no other and better plan on the table to secure the progress we needs. And there is nothing indicating we are even concerned by the current state, so hence there is no long term plans to change. We want a young and promising manager for the sake of having a young and promising manager. And that seem to be the only long term strategy we as a club have. What this young and promising manager deliver seem irrelevant.
I disagree that it is irrelevant what he has or hasn't done. Because this season with us is exactly the same season he had with Swansea last season. Same flaws, and same signs of good games against weak opposition. He has not shown anything that suggest he is a top four team manager, and he has shown little to sugest he can imply the right tactics or bring in the right players to drive this club towards the top four. And yes it might seem like a brave statement after "only" 8 months. But the fact that he game after game has had to change his initial tactics in the first half, combined with that only one of his 6 signings is close to the first team suggest that it is a valid statement. I add the point that he has ripped out the whole backroom team and implemented his own which have fuck all experience at this level, and there is none of them able to challenge Rodgers view and tactics. So we have given all powerto people that neither have the experience of challenging for top four, or ever won a single cup in their whole career. This is about more than Rodgers, and it is totally insane.
And I am aware we will not sack him. By xmas there will be arguments he has only had two real transfer window to settle his squad. Give him more time. But for people to question the appointment, the lack of progress, the lack of ability to proceed in cups, the lack of winning mentality in the team is fair and it should be like that.
The simple question noone seem to know the answer from is: What has he done so far in his career that suggest he should even be in our club in the first place?
I disagree that it is irrelevant what he has or hasn't done. Because this season with us is exactly the same season he had with Swansea last season. Same flaws, and same signs of good games against weak opposition. He has not shown anything that suggest he is a top four team manager, and he has shown little to sugest he can imply the right tactics or bring in the right players to drive this club towards the top four. And yes it might seem like a brave statement after "only" 8 months. But the fact that he game after game has had to change his initial tactics in the first half, combined with that only one of his 6 signings is close to the first team suggest that it is a valid statement. I add the point that he has ripped out the whole backroom team and implemented his own which have fuck all experience at this level, and there is none of them able to challenge Rodgers view and tactics. So we have given all powerto people that neither have the experience of challenging for top four, or ever won a single cup in their whole career. This is about more than Rodgers, and it is totally insane.
And I am aware we will not sack him. By xmas there will be arguments he has only had two real transfer window to settle his squad. Give him more time. But for people to question the appointment, the lack of progress, the lack of ability to proceed in cups, the lack of winning mentality in the team is fair and it should be like that.
The simple question noone seem to know the answer from is: What has he done so far in his career that suggest he should even be in our club in the first place?
What he delivers isn't irrelevant. What is relevant is that we grasp some sort of idea about what he wants to do, which we have to a degree, no one was expecting him to win the league this year. Could we have done better in the cups? Course we could, but the progress should be of paramount importance in the league. There are issues that need addressing defensively, perhaps issues that he couldn't have predicted, since we've had a relatively good defensive record in recent years, maybe he thought that would support his tactics, instead his open system has revealed flaws that weren't perhaps as noticeable before, so we need to buy in this respect. That for me is the crucial stage now that needs addressing and what he ultimately deserves time to do.
So basically, unless we bring in a manager with pedigree, then they're undeserving of our support? You totally skipped the point I made about us addressing this from a different angle and putting faith in someone young (if inexperienced) for once.
The stick people are beating him with is the fact he's not done anything at top level.
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But we aren't exactly top drawer are we? We've not been for 5 years. Personally I think we're mediocre and we've tried the established manager thing and got borderline fuck all in the league with it.
I'm happy to try this. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work. Hey Ho. What we've been doing for the last 20 hasn't worked either.
We're not an attractive proposition for the best, so why get an average manager who isn't rodgers? At least he's trying a certain methodology and (overall) I think his signings will turn out well for us.
I never hid the fact I thought Kenny was out of his depth in the league last year. It's a different beast now to what it was in the 90s. However I believed he deserved another season to rectify it.
It never panned out that way.
I'm optimistic for the future, whether it's rodgers himself or success from the players he leaves.
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But we aren't exactly top drawer are we? We've not been for 5 years. Personally I think we're mediocre and we've tried the established manager thing and got borderline fuck all in the league with it.
I'm happy to try this. If it doesn't work then it doesn't work. Hey Ho. What we've been doing for the last 20 hasn't worked either.
We're not an attractive proposition for the best, so why get an average manager who isn't rodgers? At least he's trying a certain methodology and (overall) I think his signings will turn out well for us.
I never hid the fact I thought Kenny was out of his depth in the league last year. It's a different beast now to what it was in the 90s. However I believed he deserved another season to rectify it.
It never panned out that way.
I'm optimistic for the future, whether it's rodgers himself or success from the players he leaves.
Well, they need to earn it. Like an unknown young player. Everyone has to earn respect.
Sorry for skipping that point. The worry is not putting faith in someone young. But there is no doubt that there are young managers around that still has something to show for their career. And there is also that point of giving him the absolute power and control. Young and inexperienced should light up a warning signal or two, and letting him get rid of experienced perosnell as Clarke and others is a worry. If he is so "big" he can't take a job without Pascoe, maybe that alone is a sign he is not the right man for this challenge. After all the tag he was hired on was young and inexperienced.
He didn't get rid of Clarke though did he? Clarke said he left out of respect for Kenny, he was asked by the club to stay on.
Dont be daft man. 6 years ago we played the CL final. Last year we played in two finals at Wembley. Dont get me started on what we have achieved the last 20 years.
This season we struggled our way passed Mansfield in the FA Cup before Oldham got to strong, Swansea easily parked us in the League cup and we hardly progressed in the Euro league from a group that doesnt scare anyone no matter how hard we try to talk up Young Boys. Add the fact that we are behind WBA and Swansea in the league as we move into the last quarter of it.
I hear you complaining about the last 20 years man, and still defend this season as progress.
The latest thing Werner is doing is encouraging a couple of useful idiots to defend the decision by spreading stories that basically say, 'I can't tell you anything but if you knew what we know you'd reverse your current opinions about people'. That's worse than libel as far as I'm concerned. It's coward's libel - imply the worst things possible with impunity. The whole set-up these days doesn't drip of cynicism, it vomits it.
Selective memory there. Clarke stayed on before he suddenly was shipped out.
"At the time, Brendan told me, 'do not walk away, because maybe we can work together'.
"From there, Brendan pulled out of the race, then came back in. Whatever happened, he got the job. But I actually got sacked by Liverpool.
"After they took Brendan in they must have decided to rejig the whole staff.
Fair enough, I thought I recalled reading comments about him saying something about going out of respect for Kenny. More fantastic indecision by the club there.
I think Clarke wanted a manager's job regardless at that stage.
Errr.. selective what? Soz for getting it wrong, it doesn't really have a clear baring on Rodgers though, but like you've done since the start of the season, twist and use whatever you like at will as a means to kick the guy.
And a sound job he's doing too, we could have done with his defensive coaching this season, what a missed opportunity.
Yes. Of course, Clarke was senior to Rodgers at Chelski, so I guess that would have been a bit of a problem, but it would have been a good combination.
Which Arsenal would you be thinking about?
The Invincibles, run by Vieira (the apparently "un-necessary in today's game" commanding midfield presence), Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Ljungberg, Ashley Cole, the commanding Sol Campbell etc?
Or the later versions where Arsene got too introspective and obsessed with his own 'total football' and has won nothing at all for 7 years and counting?
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