What the fuck. I mean really WTF!
- Thread starter Dreambeliever
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Great post sums up the problem as far as I can see although I am not so sure Rogers has got the blueprint we need to be successful.
Ferrari or a Skoda?
Krug or a glass of water?
Pot Noodle or a fillet steak?
A week in Blackpool or a trip to the Maldives?
Brendan Rodgers or Louis Van Gaal?
Krug or a glass of water?
Pot Noodle or a fillet steak?
A week in Blackpool or a trip to the Maldives?
Brendan Rodgers or Louis Van Gaal?
I actually like water more than champagne.
This list tells me you really like pot noodles.
LOL
Macca, I think you're mistaking me for someone who is saying he "will" succeed. I'm saying all managers need time. I sat here on the back of a more than dubious transfer window and a poor league campaign and said Dalglish deserved another season, I'm just not changing the viewpoint because of who Rodgers is, or more frankly, isn't.
52 points - that's the tipping point to determine whether there has been any progress or not.
We will score more goals than last year. But concede more, so that would seem to be the on-field area of improvement for Rodgers. The actual sign of improvement as next season Rodgers would have to be delivering a top four finish or very damn close to it.
Cups are great - and I wouldn't diminish their importance, other than successful cup campaigns are not a good measure of progress - for that its all about the league.
R
RedZeppelin III
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forget point totals , at this stage all i want is a win against a decent team . It's february and we haven't beaten one yet . We've been close but no cigar . Beating Zenit in the second leg or spurs in a few weeks would be great .
is it too much to ask ?
is it too much to ask ?
I know mate, I wasn't criticising at all, just noting that when you and some others do try to make a case for tolerance you make an effort to supply reasons for taking that approach.
It's not the big teams we need to be beating. If we could beat the WBAs and the Aston Villas I'd be happy enough.
Im not keen on getting rid of Rodgers purely because it would mean weve so many in so short a time. I have no clue if he is good enough but by the same token I'm absolutely certain that the season finishing in February is a sign that he aint exactly setting the place on fire... "it was one of those gamed where..."
Yeah.... whatever Brendan....
It's been a fucking car crash of a season.
Yeah.... whatever Brendan....
It's been a fucking car crash of a season.
The other thing that has to be taken into account, is that there has been a clear strategy of replacing ageing players with younger players.
We don't have vast quantities of money to spend on world class talent in their prime and we've seen enough of the mediocre talent previous managers brought in that failed.
So, we're trying to fill the squad with potential world class talent in the hope that if nurtured correctly they will excel in a few years time.
That's what Rodgers is supposed to be good at - developing young players, so you can see a certain logic behind his appointment and the underlying strategy.
The problem is, that approach is not going to reap rewards quickly, because the kids aren't at the level to be consistently effective. You look at someone like Sturridge, who had had an immediate impact and is at the stage where he's about to enter his prime years and he's what, 23 - so a lot of players trying to break in to the team are much younger and have a bit to go yet.
There is no way too fast track that development other than playing them and accepting that results will sometimes suffer.
Another issue is that this group of players hasn't played together as a group for all that long - consistency over a number of years will develop the team in to a better unit.
For these reasons I think Rodgers deserves another year - getting more than 52 points will be the first time in 3 seasons we've not achieved a lower points total than the previous year and offers definite signs of improvement.
Rafa was sacked because points dropped, then Hodgson was sacked because points dropped, then Kenny was sacked because points dropped further. I'd Rodgers turns that round it's a start.
However, he has serious problems - Rodgers is clearly not getting as much out of some senior players as he should.
Reina's continues to stagnate, Agger & Skrtel have regressed worryingly, there are consistency issues at full back, Lucas has not yet regained the firm that made him central to the team and Gerrard is evolving in to a deeper role where his diminished goal influence is missed.
We don't have vast quantities of money to spend on world class talent in their prime and we've seen enough of the mediocre talent previous managers brought in that failed.
So, we're trying to fill the squad with potential world class talent in the hope that if nurtured correctly they will excel in a few years time.
That's what Rodgers is supposed to be good at - developing young players, so you can see a certain logic behind his appointment and the underlying strategy.
The problem is, that approach is not going to reap rewards quickly, because the kids aren't at the level to be consistently effective. You look at someone like Sturridge, who had had an immediate impact and is at the stage where he's about to enter his prime years and he's what, 23 - so a lot of players trying to break in to the team are much younger and have a bit to go yet.
There is no way too fast track that development other than playing them and accepting that results will sometimes suffer.
Another issue is that this group of players hasn't played together as a group for all that long - consistency over a number of years will develop the team in to a better unit.
For these reasons I think Rodgers deserves another year - getting more than 52 points will be the first time in 3 seasons we've not achieved a lower points total than the previous year and offers definite signs of improvement.
Rafa was sacked because points dropped, then Hodgson was sacked because points dropped, then Kenny was sacked because points dropped further. I'd Rodgers turns that round it's a start.
However, he has serious problems - Rodgers is clearly not getting as much out of some senior players as he should.
Reina's continues to stagnate, Agger & Skrtel have regressed worryingly, there are consistency issues at full back, Lucas has not yet regained the firm that made him central to the team and Gerrard is evolving in to a deeper role where his diminished goal influence is missed.
R
RedZeppelin III
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Is this just based on fact that he worked with the youth teams with chelsea ? Lots of people start with youth teams . where has he actually developed top quality players ?
Well he must have impressed someone with his ability to get promoted at both Reading & Chelsea's Academies.
I couldn't give you names because I don't know any and I dare say he wasn't in the positions long enough to be sticking names on his CV.
I thought Reina was great last night.
I do think we're in a precarious situation where we're it could go either way - or we could just stay where we are. I do agree some of the soul has gradually been ebbed away since Hillsborough and even moreso now we're owned by American's who don't really have an affinity with the club, I think they're lacking in knowledge, but I do think we've been backed well and they've largely taken a hands off approach, which in many ways is good, if things we're going well on the pitch then that's exactly the way most would want it.
I don't know what to think with Rodgers. I think we've played good football at times and attacked well as a unit. I think there's still an undercurrent of old ideas that we're finding difficult to eradicate, while some players are finding it difficult to adapt from a reserved to approach to what is, frankly, too open a system.
Maybe we just need the players, maybe Rodgers' talents lie in attacking philosophies and he has alot to learn about defensive play. Whichever it is, while needing time, it's clear that after the next window the issues that need addressing, and that's giving us a backbone again and instilling a belief to win the ball back ASAP, should be sorted. If our frailties continue, then for all his eluding to the right style of football, it'll be the one great foundation our best teams have always had that's been criminally forgotten. A good work ethic. If he doesn't get that addressed soon, one way or another (personally I think we need the players AND the coaching staff), then he's heading down the same route of the last two managers.
I agree with Keni and Macca, to a degree, we shouldn't have to set time limits, though I do think managers deserve a degree of time to bring in their players. But as Keni said, he needs to get some of our lads punching above their weight, it's worked with some, while others seem to be hiding in the shadows. They need to come out soon and stand up for the club, or they'll be headed for the exit door too.
I don't know what to think with Rodgers. I think we've played good football at times and attacked well as a unit. I think there's still an undercurrent of old ideas that we're finding difficult to eradicate, while some players are finding it difficult to adapt from a reserved to approach to what is, frankly, too open a system.
Maybe we just need the players, maybe Rodgers' talents lie in attacking philosophies and he has alot to learn about defensive play. Whichever it is, while needing time, it's clear that after the next window the issues that need addressing, and that's giving us a backbone again and instilling a belief to win the ball back ASAP, should be sorted. If our frailties continue, then for all his eluding to the right style of football, it'll be the one great foundation our best teams have always had that's been criminally forgotten. A good work ethic. If he doesn't get that addressed soon, one way or another (personally I think we need the players AND the coaching staff), then he's heading down the same route of the last two managers.
I agree with Keni and Macca, to a degree, we shouldn't have to set time limits, though I do think managers deserve a degree of time to bring in their players. But as Keni said, he needs to get some of our lads punching above their weight, it's worked with some, while others seem to be hiding in the shadows. They need to come out soon and stand up for the club, or they'll be headed for the exit door too.
You should do horoscopes, mate. There's some talent.
Ahh feck off, I just mean no one knows which way it's gonna go, there's no clear direction at the minute. Smart ass.
And in there lies the fact that we are gambling huge with our precious club.
The comments Rodgers made yesterday in regards of being a near perfect game, echos that of Hodgsons against Everton, where we also got beat 2-0
Still in the opinion he is out of his depth imho..
Still in the opinion he is out of his depth imho..
I suppose I'm saying the the descent we were in, appears to have been halted - although the problems that caused it haven't.
The strategy for addressing those problems appears to be by focusing on young & up-and-coming talent which is risky and won't reap results in the short term.
I think what a lot of us feel is - ok, the strategy makes sense, given the circumstances, but the guy executing the strategy has not convinced completely yet - but has shown enough to warrant a longer look.
Part of me feels - after the disappointments of the last 3 seasons (and the great wee highlights) - that, fuck it, this roller coaster ride seems a little bit more interesting.
The worst case scenario is that I get to look forward to the next guy.
The strategy for addressing those problems appears to be by focusing on young & up-and-coming talent which is risky and won't reap results in the short term.
I think what a lot of us feel is - ok, the strategy makes sense, given the circumstances, but the guy executing the strategy has not convinced completely yet - but has shown enough to warrant a longer look.
Part of me feels - after the disappointments of the last 3 seasons (and the great wee highlights) - that, fuck it, this roller coaster ride seems a little bit more interesting.
The worst case scenario is that I get to look forward to the next guy.
I liked this because I wanted to ask that question as well.
I'd rather be under Rafa flirting with the title playing tight, pressing, controlled, unattractive football than be flirting with 9th, out of all competitions by February and playing like a bunch of kids in a playground.
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