Two points that have been on my mind for awhile.

[J Macleod]

1. People need to give up on Carroll. He's not going to come good. People have their head buried in the sand, thinking back to how he absolutely bossed it for Newcastle in the first half of last season and saying how he'll recreate that form. In reality, it was a one off purple patch. You know who else dominated in the first half of a season? Amr Zaki. And where's he now? Carroll is our Zaki and we need to sell him and cut our losses.

2. And most importantly, FSG shouldn't have installed Kenny as manager. Everyone could tell that the end of last season was a dream run in that we had nothing to play for, no pressure. Now that the pressure is on, he's struggling. FSG made a rookie business mistake by allowing emotion (hiring Kenny) to get in the way of what was really required (a new, young, hungry coach).

I've got a feeling this'll end badly for all concerned.

 

[spider-Neil]

the only two points on my mind are the two points dropped in 3 of our last home games...

 

[Skullflower]

i agree with point 1

 

[J Macleod]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47427.msg1422243#msg1422243 date=1320513949]
i agree with point 1
[/quote]

Not point two?

 

[peterhague]

i haven't said it on here before cos it's bound to cause a stir, but good for you for making point 2. i've been saying that amongst friends for a while.

as tough as the decision was, and as right as it looked at the time, i still feel that ultimately FSG allowed the fans to make that appointment for them, and that can never be right. they should have stuck with their original intention to appoint a young AVB type manager more suited to working under a DoF.

 

[Skullflower]

the only doubt i have about kenny is that he spent 70 mill on carroll, downing and henderson. it's quite a large doubt, though.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Re: Two points that have been on my mind for awhile.

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47427.msg1422252#msg1422252 date=1320514657]
the only doubt i have about kenny is that he spent 70 mill on carroll, downing and henderson. it's quite a large doubt, though.
[/quote]my doubt is his inability to have a plan B

 

[StevieM]

So where does Comolli fit in to all of this and what share of the blame does he take?

This is the guy who was "supposed" to be famed for unearthing great unkown talent.

So he's either completely pointless because Kenny makes all the calls or he's fucking shite at doing what he was suppose to do.

I suppose it's worth saying that the difference between our current transfer results versus Rafa's is that we're paying a lot more money to get pretty much the same disappointing result.

 

[Squiggles]

Andy Caroll. Jordan Henderson. Stuart Downing. £70 Million pounds.

It sounds stupid enough the first time you say it. Repeat it and you start pulling your hair out.

How we thought this was a good idea I'll never know.

 

[Judge Jules]

A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Spot on JJ. Although the knee-jerking reactionism is bound to happen in this day and age.

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Agree with this JJ.

But but but ... who the hell was responsible for our Summer transfers. KD ? Comolli ? FSG's superbrain computer ? A combination ?

I've made my views on Carroll well known, I was extremely doubtful when we first bought him but hopeful that I was wrong and Comolli & FSG's biometrics or whatever they are, were spot on and we had the new Drogba. I was also distraught when Miereles left, IMO 2nd only to Gerrard in our midfield, a goal-scorer and goal maker. Adam - yeah, for the money we paid that was a no-brainer and he'll do well. Henderson - well buying youngsters for the future is all well and good (and I do think that probably this is the FSG policy and it's to hell with this season) but again it's a gamble .... especially when you look around and think what 50M (no Carroll, no Henderson) could have bought.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47427.msg1422247#msg1422247 date=1320514245]
i haven't said it on here before cos it's bound to cause a stir, but good for you for making point 2. i've been saying that amongst friends for a while.

as tough as the decision was, and as right as it looked at the time, i still feel that ultimately FSG allowed the fans to make that appointment for them, and that can never be right. they should have stuck with their original intention to appoint a young AVB type manager more suited to working under a DoF.
[/quote]Yup i agree. I think it was common knowledge that I wanted to go young sexy manager. But Doctor Mac and Wilko made me believe in Kennys appointment.
Ah well.

 

[Molbystwin]

I've just been accused of being "knee jerk" in another thread, and to be honest the points made are so forceful as to leave me thinking that they were written by a true believer to whoosh out those with the twitches...

I'm not being knee jerk IMO, but at the moment even if we win against the big boys it will not be enough because we are nowhere near as good as we NEED to be, I love Kenny and am willing to cut him every type of slack but so far I'm getting very worried that such an expensive team assembled according to his desire should struggle to win at home against the minnows.... I would rather see us in the second division than see him sacked, I'm just not sure that our owners will see it that way. Quite simply, positive or not, enjoying the training or not, led by a legend who has the club in his soul or not, money talks. Drawing with Swansea at home ain't gonna fly folks and unless we improve markedly we will lose our king.

 

[Modo]

It will be a sad day, when fans start asking Dalglish to resign and it's coming.
Maybe we as fans expect too much from a team that hasn't won the league for 21 years.
What bothers me is that during these years we've always had a strong squad. One or two players from being complete and I must admit that it's the same this season. We're just not getting the transfers right.

I've been guilty of being sceptical or even negative about this summers acquisitions, and I don't think we would have been in this predicament had we let go of both Aquilani and Meireles.

Still there's time to fix this but it's gonna be tough for Dalglish to get FSG to spend even more cash in January.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more

 

[Farkmaster]

What about our wonderful director of football, you know, the one whose remit involves making sure we don't spend 100M on mediocrity?

 

[Hansern]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Spot on JJ!

 

[Oncy]

To clarify. I dont want Kenny to resign.
Hes in now and he needs to manage this team
this season at least.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=47427.msg1422353#msg1422353 date=1320526555]
What about our wonderful director of football, you know, the one whose remit involves making sure we don't spend 100M on mediocrity?
[/quote]

Well we installed him and then gave Kenny the final say on transfers. Making him a bit pointless for me.

That's the mistake FSG have made, rather than the hiring of Kenny.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Give me a break. FSG were clearly under huge pressure to give him the job, and I'm convinced him staying on was never in their plans. You don't appoint a DoF and then hire the oldest of old school managers to work with him. It was a compromise, pure and simple. The fact they fought to get H&G out is totally and utterly irrelevant.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=47427.msg1422345#msg1422345 date=1320525832]
I've just been accused of being "knee jerk" in another thread, and to be honest the points made are so forceful as to leave me thinking that they were written by a true believer to whoosh out those with the twitches...

I'm not being knee jerk IMO, but at the moment even if we win against the big boys it will not be enough because we are nowhere near as good as we NEED to be, I love Kenny and am willing to cut him every type of slack but so far I'm getting very worried that such an expensive team assembled according to his desire should struggle to win at home against the minnows.... I would rather see us in the second division than see him sacked, I'm just not sure that our owners will see it that way. Quite simply, positive or not, enjoying the training or not, led by a legend who has the club in his soul or not, money talks. Drawing with Swansea at home ain't gonna fly folks and unless we improve markedly we will lose our king.
[/quote]

Good post, Molby, and I'm not blind to the fact that we need to improve - I doubt anybody connected with the club is. John Henry has already made it clear that he expects CL football next season, so the marker's been laid down for Kenny and everyone in the club's senior management. However, with a fairly large number of newbies to get settled in, we were never likely to come flying out of the traps this season. We do have work to do to add a cutting edge to what has mostly been pretty good football, but we're light years ahead of where we were 12 months ago. Mild concern may be in order, but no more than that IMHO.

On the subject of Comolli, I for one was never in favour of that appointment given his distinctly mixed record at Tottenham and would actually be quite happy if he were naffed off.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

This isn't a 'Kenny Out' thread JJ.

I think it's fair to criticise the management team right now, absolutely I do. We've spent terribly and we're playing shit. Kenny *IS* struggling, how can any of you deny this?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47427.msg1422362#msg1422362 date=1320527946]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Give me a break. FSG were clearly under huge pressure to give him the job, and I'm convinced him staying on was never in their plans. You don't appoint a DoF and then hire the oldest of old school managers to work with him. It was a compromise, pure and simple. The fact they fought to get H&G out is totally and utterly irrelevant.
[/quote]

Not buying. FSG did appoint Kenny on a temporary basis to begin with. The reason they made it a permanent appointment was that he, and the club under him, did so well, not because FSG were ever going to pander to the fans directly against their own better judgment. The fact that they went toe to toe with the two cowboys is in no sense "irrelevant" as it's further evidence - not that any should be needed - that FSG are nobody's patsies.

 

[Hansern]

We're unbeaten in our last 8 games, and 3 points from 4th, which is our target this year.
I agree that we're not currently in great shape, but we're not THAT bad off either. Which makes a lot of the points in this thread a bit ott.

The thing that irritates me, and probably a lot of others aswell, are the idiotic points we've dropped so far. But that can change quite quickly when we start hitting the back of the net. This team will only get better imho. If we are in a similar position come Christmas we all know we usually finish the second half of the season quite strongly.

Kenny AND his signings should be judged after the season. If we havent reached our goals, then we'll deal with it then.
If it ends with Kenny leaving it will be a truly heartbreaking moment, and we will have spent a lot of money with very little return.

What I dont like at the moment though is the tinkering. We should have started the season with more or less what ended the last one. We've tried to fix to many positions that werent broken, and that has left us unbalanced and not playing as a team. Seeing as Kenny wants to integrate so many newbies, we're going to see performances like today and last week occur for a while yet.

Adding 1-2 players to last years first eleven would have been easier. 6 new faces takes a while to gel.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=47427.msg1422365#msg1422365 date=1320528209]
This isn't a 'Kenny Out' thread JJ.

I think it's fair to criticise the management team right now, absolutely I do. We've spent terribly and we're playing shit. Kenny *IS* struggling, how can any of you deny this?
[/quote]

There are certainly some "Kenny Out" contributors to this thread, mate. Take another look at the first few posts in particular. Criticism is fair enough. Wanting a management clearout after less than three months, and trying to justify that by saying the wrong appointments were made in the first place, is not.

And the idea that we're "playing shit" is just wrong. We're finishing shit, but much of our play this season has been pretty damn good. Today was the first game for a while in which our overall performance, as opposed to our finishing, wasn't up to snuff.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422366#msg1422366 date=1320528536]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47427.msg1422362#msg1422362 date=1320527946]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47427.msg1422322#msg1422322 date=1320522740]
A new young manager? Like Villas Boas maybe, pulling up all those trees down at the Bridge?

FSG browbeaten by a few Scousers into appointing Kenny? What, like they crumbled when H and G were fighting them tooth and nail over the purchase of the club?

Kenny struggling? What, barely one third of the way into a new season and he's a write-off already?

Listen to yourselves, some of you. FFS.
[/quote]

Give me a break. FSG were clearly under huge pressure to give him the job, and I'm convinced him staying on was never in their plans. You don't appoint a DoF and then hire the oldest of old school managers to work with him. It was a compromise, pure and simple. The fact they fought to get H&G out is totally and utterly irrelevant.
[/quote]

Not buying. FSG did appoint Kenny on a temporary basis to begin with. The reason they made it a permanent appointment was that he, and the club under him, did so well, not because FSG were ever going to pander to the fans directly against their own better judgment. The fact that they went toe to toe with the two cowboys is in no sense "irrelevant" as it's further evidence - not that any should be needed - that FSG are nobody's patsies.
[/quote]

obviously the league performance was a big factor, but imagine the bad PR if they'd gone ahead and appointed someone more in line with what they originally intended. it would've taken balls of steel to make that call, and i'll always believe they ducked it. but, whatever, i know you'll never agree.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47427.msg1422367#msg1422367 date=1320528795]
We're unbeaten in our last 8 games, and 3 points from 4th, which is our target this year.
I agree that we're not currently in great shape, but we're not THAT bad off either. Which makes a lot of the points in this thread a bit ott.

The thing that irritates me, and probably a lot of others aswell, are the idiotic points we've dropped so far. But that can change quite quickly when we start hitting the back of the net. This team will only get better imho. If we are in a similar position come Christmas we all know we usually finish the second half of the season quite strongly.

Kenny AND his signings should be judged after the season. If we havent reached our goals, then we'll deal with it then.
If it ends with Kenny leaving it will be a truly heartbreaking moment, and we will have spent a lot of money with very little return.

What I dont like at the moment though is the tinkering. We should have started the season with more or less what ended the last one. We've tried to fix to many positions that werent broken, and that has left us unbalanced and not playing as a team. Seeing as Kenny wants to integrate so many newbies, we're going to see performances like today and last week occur for a while yet.

Adding 1-2 players to last years first eleven would have been easier. 6 new faces takes a while to gel.
[/quote]


To be honest I think FSG had something to do with why so many new faces were bought in. Their philosophy of recruiting young players and then possibly selling them on when they get to a certain price or age. This means to me players like Cole, Meireles, Poulsen, Aqualini and Maxi and those on a high salary were never really going to get a game so when the earliest transfer window opened, they were either sold, or loaned and if they weren't then were destined for the bench. The surprise was Bellamy but it could be because he came cheap.

 

[Rosco]

I would have agreed with JJ on that until the interview Henry did with Conn. How they're being perceived by the fans is clearly an issue for them, which is clever in one way but stupid in another.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

JJ, yes we've been creating chances but what does that matter if we are dropping silly points?

Going back to before Hodgson was appointed, you called for Kenny to get the gig so I am not surprised to see you in here with your sleeves rolled up, duking it out with all comers. Good luck to you mate. I do genuinely believe there are warning signs within the squad and some are picking up on them. In the here and now we are not finishing off chances and pur substitutions are bizarre at times. In the broader picture, we dropped £100 million readies and we're still a one man team. It's all very frustrating.

Looking at the up coming league fixtures I fear you'll be defending Kenny a bit more in the next month.