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Trouble in Manchester

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Every single one of those team has the potential to cause an upset.

Burnley - good team from last season, bad run but should turn up at some point
Watford - 3 wins on the trot
Wolves - see match against Citeh
West Ham - Good team on paper
Newcastle - Rafa

I'll say they are in some deep shit at current form.

Burnley are struggling in the league as they are trying to balance their EL qualification. They have had a disappointingly weak lineup in the past couple of games. I'd like to see Ashley Barnes and Vokes starting as they would cause a lot of trouble to Smalling/Jones/Bailly/Lindelof/*insert pub league defender*
 
The team isn’t that unbalanced. They have a couple gaps at the back and that’s it - still more than enough to make do though.

The fact that it’s incoherent is Mourinho’s fault.
 
Which is him all over, he'll throw games out of principle, to prove his point. Imagine a Liverpool manager doing that. They'd go the same way as Budgie.
 
The team isn’t that unbalanced. They have a couple gaps at the back and that’s it - still more than enough to make do though.

The fact that it’s incoherent is Mourinho’s fault.

They have no left-sided CB at all, he doesn't rate at least three of his CBs, two of his full-backs are converted wingers and over 30, he has no idea what his best CM is (or where to play Pogba), he's got zero out of Sanchez - who is one of three players who all want to play in central attacking midfield positions, he has no natural wingers and has three defensive midfielders.

It's pretty unbalanced.
 
Mourinho’s use of Herrera felt like a coded protest by a man losing his touch
Manchester United’s manager seemed keener to make a point than beat Tottenham and may no longer be able to create a team that can attack without being catastrophically open
by Jonathan Wilson


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“From a tactical point of view, we didn’t lose,” said José Mourinho, which must have come as a tremendous relief to the thousands of Manchester United fans – the ones who weren’t posing for selfies with Lucas Moura, at least – who thought they had just seen their side suffer their worst home defeat in four years. But then, had he even been picking his team from a tactical point of view? What was the rationale in picking Ander Herrera on the right of a back three? Mourinho had played a back three against Tottenham at home last season, when United won 1-0, but then it was Eric Bailly used alongside Chris Smalling and Phil Jones and Herrera was deployed at the back of midfield with Nemanja Matic. Why not Bailly this time? Or why not Victor Lindelöf, or even Matteo Darmian? Why a midfielder who in 384 previous games had never played as a central defender?

Herrera, it’s true, has been used to negate a specific player before, notably picking up Eden Hazard against Chelsea, but this was not a man-marking job. Here, he was playing as an orthodox right-sided centre-back. Perhaps there was a good tactical reason. Perhaps Mourinho thought his tenacity would negate Dele Alli drifting in from the left (not, as it turned out, that Alli operated from the left as Mauricio Pochettino, perhaps mindful of how Alli and Christian Eriksen had been snuffed out by United’s 3-4-2-1 last season, pulled Alli deeper and unleashed Moura’s pace against United’s lumbering rearguard). But this felt like a statement selection, one of those teams Mourinho picks less to win a game than to make a point, a suspicion heightened by the fact that his first response in his post-match television interview was to point out that the transfer market is closed.

There is always a danger with Mourinho of attributing Machiavellian intent to his every act, as though he is some universal spider constantly spinning his webs of intrigue. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake, but Monday’s teamsheet conjured images of a raw night at Adams Park 2007, when Mourinho picked Michael Essien and Paulo Ferreira at centre-back for a League Cup semi-final against Wycombe in protest at not being allowed to sign Tal Ben Haim. At least at Wycombe he got away with a 1-1 draw and did not have to witness his propaganda pick making two errors in the buildup to a vital goal. That was the beginning of the end of his time at Chelsea, although it would be a further nine months before he finally left. At United, frankly, it would be a surprise if he lasted that long.


This mess is not entirely of Mourinho’s making. The squad is a shambles. There are clear issues at the back, not least the fact that of his five regular central defenders only Marcos Rojo, who is injured, is really comfortable operating as the left of a pair. Three of those five he inherited but two, Bailly and Lindelöf, the two he felt unable to include on Monday (and given Lindelöf’s performance after coming off the bench, with good reason) were signed on his watch for a total of £60m. But incoherent as the squad is, is Mourinho getting the best out of them? After the sluggishness of the performance at Brighton, there was at least energy against Tottenham. It was frantic and ugly but it unnerved Spurs who, as Harry Kane admitted, were themselves a little sloppy in the first half. But when six of the starting lineup were making their first start of the season, is it really a surprise they could not sustain that intensity into the second half?

And more fundamentally, is the consequence of playing at that pace the sort of openness Mourinho despises? Last season Mourinho was criticised for his negativity in certain big games, particularly against Liverpool away and Tottenham at home (partly for stylistic reasons but also because with Manchester City streaking into the distance, there seemed little sense in risking the draw). But perhaps this was the alternative. Only four goalkeepers, after all, made more saves than David de Gea in the Premier League last season, and two of them ended up relegated. United conceded only 28 goals, but they were far from the impenetrability that used to characterise Mourinho sides.

It may be that Mourinho, as he did after Real Madrid’s 5-0 defeat at Barcelona in 2010, will try to turn this into self-justification – “See what happens when I try to do it your way?” – but that was at the beginning of a long and sulphurous campaign that, while raising demons that ultimately unseated him, did achieve its objective of toppling Pep Guardiola. Two years in, it seems reasonable to ask if United are any closer to winning the league than they were when Mourinho took over. And more pertinently, it seems reasonable to ask just what the plan is with this squad. Why is it so imbalanced? Why are there such obvious flaws? Perhaps that is not Mourinho’s fault, but where there is a major doubt is in whether he has the capacity any more to create a side that can attack without being catastrophically open. Why should it be all or nothing? And why should every teamsheet have to be examined for coded protests?
Couldnt be arsed to read beyond the headline but hes certainly wasting Hererra, hes class.

The same could be said for Sanchez, Rashford, Martial & Mata. Long may it continue
 
Couldnt be arsed to read beyond the headline but hes certainly wasting Hererra, hes class.

The same could be said for Sanchez, Rashford, Martial & Mata. Long may it continue

Herrera is class? Hmmmmm. He's alright, nothing more.
 
They have no left-sided CB at all, he doesn't rate at least three of his CBs, two of his full-backs are converted wingers and over 30, he has no idea what his best CM is (or where to play Pogba), he's got zero out of Sanchez - who is one of three players who all want to play in central attacking midfield positions, he has no natural wingers and has three defensive midfielders.

It's pretty unbalanced.

Your judgement is clouded, because this is the same way you rationalised our own failings over recent decades. The scum fans are doing exactly the same thing. But it is not the truth, the truth is there is nothing wrong, or imbalanced, they are exactly where they ought to be given their current squad judged on their current age and level of ability (rather than reputation and past performance). Their mindset needs to be this is where we are now, we're shit, so how do we go about getting to the top again. But like us in the past, every cunt associated with that club will have the mindset of we should be at the top of the league, we belong there, something must be wrong for us to not be there, and then they go looking for mistakes to fix. None of the fixes will ever work. It will take a good couple of decades of mediocrity for them to realise that they're now shit, and start to make a proper plan to improve.
 
They have no left-sided CB at all, he doesn't rate at least three of his CBs, two of his full-backs are converted wingers and over 30, he has no idea what his best CM is (or where to play Pogba), he's got zero out of Sanchez - who is one of three players who all want to play in central attacking midfield positions, he has no natural wingers and has three defensive midfielders.

It's pretty unbalanced.

Yeah, it does look quite unbalanced at the moment, but to be fair last season it seemed for a time that Jose found a winning formula and they were maybe one top-class winger away from another potential title-winning Mourinho team (even without one, they would have won the title in an alternative universe where City and Guardiola didn't exist). Fortunately City were there to nullify Jose's 2nd season peak and now we can all revel in the wheels-coming-off-the-wagon stage.

In general, I have nothing to add to this post from 2016. In all these years I was never seriously worried about United rising back to the top level, even when they brought in names like Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez, because I always thought their underlying strategy was spectacularly bad. I will start truly worrying only when they hire a competent DOF and revamp the structure of the club.
 
Yeah, it does look quite unbalanced at the moment, but to be fair last season it seemed for a time that Jose found a winning formula and they were maybe one top-class winger away from another potential title-winning Mourinho team (even without one, they would have won the title in an alternative universe where City and Guardiola didn't exist). Fortunately City were there to nullify Jose's 2nd season peak and now we can all sit back and enjoy the wheels-coming-off-the-wagon stage.

In general, I have nothing to add to this post from 2016. In all these years I was never seriously worried about United rising back to the top level, even when they brought in names like Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez, because I always thought their underlying strategy was spectacularly bad. I will start truly worrying only when they hire a competent DOF and revamp the structure of the club.

Actually, he does have at least one natural wide player, who has decent pace: Martial.
 
The potentially ultimate anti, or non, football game is Mourinho v Rafa. Two managers who get so drawn into club politics that they'll turn a football game into an elaborate meta-game of political discourse. If both are still in situ, and in the same frame of mind, they may as well do without the ball and just move the players around in a ninety-minute al fresco animation of office politics.
 
In all these years I was never seriously worried about United rising back to the top level, even when they brought in names like Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez, because I always thought their underlying strategy was spectacularly bad. I will start truly worrying only when they hire a competent DOF and revamp the structure of the club.

I worry about United's resurgence every time they buy a new player, whether it's Di Maria, Zlatan, Pogba, Sanchez or whoever. I think that fear is conditioned within me. I really hope they fall outside the top 4 this year so we can breathe for another year.
 
I worry about United's resurgence every time they buy a new player, whether it's Di Maria, Zlatan, Pogba, Sanchez or whoever. I think that fear is conditioned within me. I really hope they fall outside the top 4 this year so we can breathe for another year.

They finished second and six points ahead of us last season, which was a big reverse from the previous season, although in both cases you could argue that the cup exploits of both teams affected their final points tally. But while it's too early to make any definitive statements about how the season will go, it's certainly looking like they might struggle to match second place again.

If they finish out of the Top 4 and don't win any trophies that would be just wonderful indeed.
 
Keeper - de gea / romero
LB - shaw / darmian / valencia
RB - young / dalot
Cb - lindelof / smalling / jones / bailly / rojo
Dm - herrera / fellaini / matic /fred
Am - pogba / perriera / Mctominay
Wide forward - martial / lingard / mata
Cf - rashford / sanchez / lukaku

It really isnt that imbalanced at all.
Its just not got as many quality players as you would expect.
They could play two decent teams but mourinho isnt getting a tune.

He plays an imbalanced team because he cant make players like Darmian, Rashford, Shaw, etc better in their actual positions.
Its always been a failing of his. He rarely improves a player. He just buys better ones.

He built this squad for half a billion (on top of the half billion the other two bellends spent) and he cant get them playing for shit.

De gea
Shaw
Bailly
Smalling
Dalot

Herrera
Matic
Pogba

Mata
Sanchez
Martial

Put that in a Pep or Klopps hands its a decent side that. Probably missing a great passer. But arent most teams
 
Its shocking for a billion pound investment like.
I imagine thats MORE than the city squad cost and its nowhere near that.
 
They have no left-sided CB at all, he doesn't rate at least three of his CBs, two of his full-backs are converted wingers and over 30, he has no idea what his best CM is (or where to play Pogba), he's got zero out of Sanchez - who is one of three players who all want to play in central attacking midfield positions, he has no natural wingers and has three defensive midfielders.

It's pretty unbalanced.


At the back, he's got one of the best goalkeepers in the world, 5 CB's that he should be able to do something with and a collection of fullbacks that have enough pace and power between them to work with.

In the middle, he's got defensive midfielders, Fred who looks to be a runner, Herrera who can do a bit of link play and attacking midfielders in Pogba and Mata.

Up front, he's got versatile forwards in Sanchez, Martial, Lingard and Rashford and one of the best out and out #9's in the league.

The fact that he doesn't rate or know what to do with his players is a different matter and a result of his failings (and perhaps others at the club).

It's not that unbalanced.

Look at England's so called golden generation - loads of great defenders, a few good midfielders but all wanting to play the same role (incl. Rooney), no-one to play out on the left flank (at all).... that was unbalanced.
 
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Actually, he does have at least one natural wide player, who has decent pace: Martial.

Oh yes, Martial. Two years ago, everybody was convinced that Mourinho will make Martial a key part of his team. How could he not use the only player with genuine pace and goal threat from the wing? Most of United fans took this idea for granted and many on SCM thought so too.

The thing about Mourinho is that he knows only one way to win – his way. And that means players throughout the team who are happy to be cogs in the machine, follow instructions and deliver with conveyer-belt like consistency. On the contrary, players who cannot be easily controlled and convinced to substitute their own thoughts for the manager's – the likes of Martial, Pogba or Mkhitaryan – are a nuisance or perhaps even a threat to the system.

Nowadays it's almost worse for Mourinho when Martial does well – because it shows there is another way to play and win besides his way; it undermines him with other players, which is why he is hell-bent on getting rid of Martial and would have surely sold Pogba too if not for the club refusing to contemplate such an admission of defeat. What's amazing is that he seems to have no ability whatsoever to anticipate these traits in players before he signs them, which is why we often witness the bizarre spectacle of Mourinho's own high-profile signings being marginalized from the start.
 
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Oh yes, Martial. Two years ago, everybody was convinced that Mourinho will make Martial a key part of his team. Most of United fans as well as posters here on SCM all said, how could he not use the only player with genuine pace and goal threat from the wing?

The thing about Mourinho is that he knows only one way to win – his way. And that means players throughout the team who are happy to be cogs in the machine, follow instructions and deliver with conveyer-belt like consistency. On the contrary, players who cannot be easily controlled and convinced to substitute their own thoughts for the manager's – the likes of Martial, Pogba or Mkhitaryan – are a nuisance or perhaps even a threat to the system.

Nowadays it's almost worse for Mourinho when Martial does well – because it shows there is another way to play and win besides his way; it undermines him with other players, which is why he is hell-bent on getting rid of Martial and would have surely sold Pogba too if not for the club refusing to contemplate such an admission of defeat. What's amazing is that he seems to have no ability whatsoever to anticipate these traits in players before he signs them, which is why we often witness the bizarre spectacle of Mourinho's own high-profile signings being marginalized from the start.
Kind of agree, but he had the likes of Robben and Duff playing brilliantly, freely, in attack at Chelsea. As did Hazard until he went into a huff. He also won the Spanish league with Ronaldo playing for himself.
 
Kind of agree, but he had the likes of Robben and Duff playing brilliantly, freely, in attack at Chelsea. As did Hazard until he went into a huff. He also won the Spanish league with Ronaldo playing for himself.

I think Mourinho knew better than to try to mess with Ronaldo and Hazard (although he did fall out with the latter after one season). Probably something similar with Robben, who played his way when he was fit, but the other 3 wingers were very much Mourinho creatures. Martial's other problem is that when Mourinho arrived he was younger than any of those players at the time and we know that Mourinho doesn't trust youth.
 
I think Mourinho knew better than to try to mess with Ronaldo and Hazard (although he did fall out with the latter after one season). Probably something similar with Robben, who played his way when he was fit, but the other 3 wingers were very much Mourinho creatures. Martial's other problem is that when Mourinho arrived he was younger than any of those players at the time and we know that Mourinho doesn't trust youth.
To me, he’s always wanted the majority of his team to be machines, but with a bit of space/leeway for flair players. He seems to have lost the plot and not know what to do with them anymore.
 
To me, he’s always wanted the majority of his team to be machines, but with a bit of space/leeway for flair players. He seems to have lost the plot and not know what to do with them anymore.

Agree. I'm sure if United signed Bale, he would have been allowed freedom to play as he wishes – but somehow Mourinho did not feel Martial or Mkhitaryan deserved the same treatment. And for Pogba it's even harder, as he is in CM, which in Mourinho's system doesn't allow much room for improvisation.
 
I think Mourinho knew better than to try to mess with Ronaldo and Hazard (although he did fall out with the latter after one season). Probably something similar with Robben, who played his way when he was fit, but the other 3 wingers were very much Mourinho creatures. Martial's other problem is that when Mourinho arrived he was younger than any of those players at the time and we know that Mourinho doesn't trust youth.

He fell out with Ronaldo as well, towards the end of his time at Real Madrid.
 
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