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Trouble in Manchester

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Frogfish said:
Actually I was surprised when Neville came out with ... he's stayed to the end of his contract at Inter, Porto and Real. It is only at Chelsea (twice - which may also have something to do with Abramovich as well as his bust up with the lady medic) he left before the contract finished. Just saying like, for accuracy !
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Oh yeah, I didn't say he'd been sacked. Just when things start to go wrong they have never really improved under him. Happened at Chelsea (twice) and Real, and is now happening again. I mean I guess you could argue that because it didn't happen at Porto and Inter there's no actual pattern, but it's happened everywhere since he got the Real Madrid job - and I'd argue that since that point he's become much more regressive and entrenched a manager.
 
Best Believe It said:
Oh yeah, I didn't say he'd been sacked. Just when things start to go wrong they have never really improved under him. Happened at Chelsea (twice) and Real, and is now happening again. I mean I guess you could argue that because it didn't happen at Porto and Inter there's no actual pattern, but it's happened everywhere since he got the Real Madrid job - and I'd argue that since that point he's become much more regressive and entrenched a manager.
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Can't dispute that.
 
Frogfish said:
Don't see it at all. End of the season perhaps but now ? Not a chance, there are simply no top class managers out there to replace him with at this stage of the season. I can imagine the board may begin to sound out options for 2019/20 though.
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Zidane
 
Frogfish said:
40226634_1054176864756545_888859386171097088_n.jpg
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Brill.

As an aside, this reminds me of the charity bookshop manager I knew who once told me that after one Christmas they'd collected enough Jeremy Clarkson books to put together a whole display.
 
I still think, until the top 4 is no longer mathematically possible, they will stick by him. Unless the club is seriously flirting with relegation, of course. They made their bed by giving him that contract extension, and now they are going to lie in it.
 
I reckon he's got a meaty compensation clause if the sack him. They're holding off for something that voids that I reckon. Like Moyes and champions league.
 
Hestu said:
I reckon he's got a meaty compensation clause if the sack him. They're holding off for something that voids that I reckon. Like Moyes and champions league.
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It may be meaty, but CL qualification is massively meatier. If they are in the doldrums and look like they are struggling for top 4 near Xmas they'd be mad not to sack him. CL qualification is worth tens of millions, and has a huge equivalent value in terms of the club's profile and attractiveness to the best players.
 
doctor_mac said:
It may be meaty, but CL qualification is massively meatier. If they are in the doldrums and look like they are struggling for top 4 near Xmas they'd be mad not to sack him. CL qualification is worth tens of millions, and has a huge equivalent value in terms of the club's profile and attractiveness to the best players.
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They'd be mad not to, but they've already invested heavily in him and his project. It depends if they're willing to write that all off. Based on the negotiation skills of Woodward, I wouldn't be convinced. Mourinho until 1) they're out the CL, and 2) they can't qualify for next year (and that includes any Europa league nonsense )
 
This is pretty cringy but... I lolled.

[article]

What Jose Mourinho really wishes he could tell you about Manchester United
play
Is time up for Mourinho at Manchester United? (2:24)
8:33 AM CT
  • i

    Iain MacintoshESPN.com writer
After unexpectedly changing the time of his press conference last week, it's hard to track down Jose Mourinho these days. Fortunately, our special correspondent was in the right place at the right time late on Monday night after Manchester United lost to Spurs. This is what the Man United manager had to say (OK, not really ... )

"Oh. You are here. I did not expect you to be here. I thought that if I changed the time without telling anyone ... and the location ... but, no. You have found me. Well, I salute you.


ADVERTISEMENT
And you will want an explanation, no? Yes. Your kind always do.

We worked all week. And by the geopolitical point of view, we did not lose. By the thermodynamic point of view, we did not lose. By the philosophical point of view, what is losing and what is winning? But, yes we lost the game, 3-0.

And so again you look at me with your face of doubt. You go away and you think: third season syndrome. You think I have gone off. Like a bad wine.

But are my triumphs really so distant? Second place last year with points that would normally win a championship -- higher than your beloved Liverpool. The year before that: A quadruple. The Europa League. The League Cup. The Community Shield. The Stretford Local Business Association Quality Staff Catering Prize. And it should not be forgotten that I have twice finished in the last five on Fortnite.

Do not make that face at me.

Yes, it is true. Players have changed. When I started as a manager, if the players had their phones in the dressing room, it was because they were playing snake. Or it was because John Terry needed 45 minutes to tap out I wll B hme L8, dont w8 up on his Blackberry. Now Jesse Lingard documents the growth of his toenails on Instasnapps and Luke Shaw will not log out of JustEat.

But I have moved with the times. I now use scouting software to isolate clips showing individual areas of my players' weaknesses. Then I use iMovie to add a soundtrack of me screaming, 'You are worthless! You are destroying my legacy!' over the top. Then I send them to Chris Smalling. Every. Single. Day.

Nothing? No. It is easier for you to sit there and scratch yourself, isn't it?

Mourinho's not the reason for Man United's struggles. It's everyone else's fault! Matthew Peters/Man Utd via Getty Images
Even you must know that not all the blame falls at my door. Look at Paul Pogba. When he plays for France, he plays with freedom, he plays with a smile on his face, he uses his skill and dynamism to break through the lines. And he wins the World Cup. When he plays for me? Nothing. Nothing. What has changed? What is different? You will have to ask him.

Then there is Ed Woodward. My constant "Ed-ache," ha. Why are you not laughing?

How am I supposed to win championships when he will not let me improve the squad? I need to buy defenders. I said to him at the beginning of the summer, 'I need to buy defenders.' He said, 'You have already bought two defenders, they were £30 million each. What's wrong with them?' So it is clear. He does not understand football. For he is not a football person.

But these are the facts: When you take away the £100m for Paul Pogba, the £75m for Romelu Lukaku, the £50m for Fred, the £40m on Nemanja Matic, the £30m and God-knows-what-we're-paying-in-wages for Alexis Sanchez, the £30m for Victor Lindelof, the £30m for Eric Bailly -- take all of that away and we have spent less than Burnley. And so Ed Woodward expects me to keep up with Manchester City on Burnley's budget. It is madness.

But what do you know? You are a cat. And I am trying to have a relaxing bath. One for me. None for you. Go on, get out. Daddy will feed you when he's finished. Respect. Respect. Respect. Respect."

[/article]
 
doctor_mac said:
It may be meaty, but CL qualification is massively meatier. If they are in the doldrums and look like they are struggling for top 4 near Xmas they'd be mad not to sack him. CL qualification is worth tens of millions, and has a huge equivalent value in terms of the club's profile and attractiveness to the best players.
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France football reckons he earns 28 million a year. So if they have to pay double that to fuck him off that's equivalent to qualifying for the CL and getting to the semis
 
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Woland said:
France football reckons he earns 28 million a year. So if they have to pay double that to fuck him off that's equivalent to getting to qualifying for the CL and getting to the semis
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That's incredible if true. That makes him on over half a million a week? Last I heard he was on £15 m a year (on his last contract). If Woodward doubled that he's fucking mental.
 
Woland said:
France football reckons he earns 28 million a year. So if they have to pay double that to fuck him off that's equivalent to getting to qualifying for the CL and getting to the semis
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That’s a huge salary if true. So the contract extension was to almost double his earnings 😱
 
Maybe it includes his sponsorship shit. Bit yeah, it's a fuckload of dough. More proof that it doesn't make you happy .
 
Frogfish said:
Yeah they are not going to give him the £1/2 billion he'll demand. I'm also not convinced he can do it without a massive fund ... and at a club not called Real ... and in the PL. Lots of question marks he needs to answer over the next few years. Maybe he will turn out to be a great manager - but that's a big question mark and I'd be surprised if United took that gamble. I think they'll go for a proven manger ... Pochettino is actually perfect for them in almost every way, they really should have at least tried to get him last time around. So happy they didn't !
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Zizou won't go, he's just gone to Juve in DoF type role. I'm sure one of his sons has joined him. Juve are lining him up to replace Allegri, who I believe will be Real new manager next season (if the new chap fails)
 
The interesting thing is that the mancs have a pretty soft set of fixtures coming up (Burnley, Watford, Wolves, West Ham, Newcastle) - so either Mourinho accumulates a succession of easy wins and goes on his usual mad rampage of self-congratulation, or they somehow contrive to cock it up and he can finally hand in his extra-large breakfast plate and leave the hotel. Pass the popcorn.
 
gkmacca said:
The interesting thing is that the mancs have a pretty soft set of fixtures coming up (Burnley, Watford, Wolves, West Ham, Newcastle) - so either Mourinho accumulates a succession of easy wins and goes on his usual mad rampage of self-congratulation, or they somehow contrive to cock it up and he can finally hand in his extra-large breakfast plate and leave the hotel. Pass the popcorn.
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There's no losing here. Except for Mourinho. God it's got to be tough being that miserable all the time.
 
Mourinho’s use of Herrera felt like a coded protest by a man losing his touch
Manchester United’s manager seemed keener to make a point than beat Tottenham and may no longer be able to create a team that can attack without being catastrophically open
by Jonathan Wilson

4928.jpg


“From a tactical point of view, we didn’t lose,” said José Mourinho, which must have come as a tremendous relief to the thousands of Manchester United fans – the ones who weren’t posing for selfies with Lucas Moura, at least – who thought they had just seen their side suffer their worst home defeat in four years. But then, had he even been picking his team from a tactical point of view? What was the rationale in picking Ander Herrera on the right of a back three? Mourinho had played a back three against Tottenham at home last season, when United won 1-0, but then it was Eric Bailly used alongside Chris Smalling and Phil Jones and Herrera was deployed at the back of midfield with Nemanja Matic. Why not Bailly this time? Or why not Victor Lindelöf, or even Matteo Darmian? Why a midfielder who in 384 previous games had never played as a central defender?

Herrera, it’s true, has been used to negate a specific player before, notably picking up Eden Hazard against Chelsea, but this was not a man-marking job. Here, he was playing as an orthodox right-sided centre-back. Perhaps there was a good tactical reason. Perhaps Mourinho thought his tenacity would negate Dele Alli drifting in from the left (not, as it turned out, that Alli operated from the left as Mauricio Pochettino, perhaps mindful of how Alli and Christian Eriksen had been snuffed out by United’s 3-4-2-1 last season, pulled Alli deeper and unleashed Moura’s pace against United’s lumbering rearguard). But this felt like a statement selection, one of those teams Mourinho picks less to win a game than to make a point, a suspicion heightened by the fact that his first response in his post-match television interview was to point out that the transfer market is closed.

There is always a danger with Mourinho of attributing Machiavellian intent to his every act, as though he is some universal spider constantly spinning his webs of intrigue. Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake, but Monday’s teamsheet conjured images of a raw night at Adams Park 2007, when Mourinho picked Michael Essien and Paulo Ferreira at centre-back for a League Cup semi-final against Wycombe in protest at not being allowed to sign Tal Ben Haim. At least at Wycombe he got away with a 1-1 draw and did not have to witness his propaganda pick making two errors in the buildup to a vital goal. That was the beginning of the end of his time at Chelsea, although it would be a further nine months before he finally left. At United, frankly, it would be a surprise if he lasted that long.

This mess is not entirely of Mourinho’s making. The squad is a shambles. There are clear issues at the back, not least the fact that of his five regular central defenders only Marcos Rojo, who is injured, is really comfortable operating as the left of a pair. Three of those five he inherited but two, Bailly and Lindelöf, the two he felt unable to include on Monday (and given Lindelöf’s performance after coming off the bench, with good reason) were signed on his watch for a total of £60m. But incoherent as the squad is, is Mourinho getting the best out of them? After the sluggishness of the performance at Brighton, there was at least energy against Tottenham. It was frantic and ugly but it unnerved Spurs who, as Harry Kane admitted, were themselves a little sloppy in the first half. But when six of the starting lineup were making their first start of the season, is it really a surprise they could not sustain that intensity into the second half?

And more fundamentally, is the consequence of playing at that pace the sort of openness Mourinho despises? Last season Mourinho was criticised for his negativity in certain big games, particularly against Liverpool away and Tottenham at home (partly for stylistic reasons but also because with Manchester City streaking into the distance, there seemed little sense in risking the draw). But perhaps this was the alternative. Only four goalkeepers, after all, made more saves than David de Gea in the Premier League last season, and two of them ended up relegated. United conceded only 28 goals, but they were far from the impenetrability that used to characterise Mourinho sides.

It may be that Mourinho, as he did after Real Madrid’s 5-0 defeat at Barcelona in 2010, will try to turn this into self-justification – “See what happens when I try to do it your way?” – but that was at the beginning of a long and sulphurous campaign that, while raising demons that ultimately unseated him, did achieve its objective of toppling Pep Guardiola. Two years in, it seems reasonable to ask if United are any closer to winning the league than they were when Mourinho took over. And more pertinently, it seems reasonable to ask just what the plan is with this squad. Why is it so imbalanced? Why are there such obvious flaws? Perhaps that is not Mourinho’s fault, but where there is a major doubt is in whether he has the capacity any more to create a side that can attack without being catastrophically open. Why should it be all or nothing? And why should every teamsheet have to be examined for coded protests?
 
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From the point the board refused to sanction the purchase of another expensive centre back this chain of events has been obvious. He will continue sniping in the press and making weird team selections, casting himself as a put upon under appreciated servant of the club. Eventually when the board and players have tired of his grandstanding he will be shown the door, probably before Christmas.
 
gkmacca said:
The interesting thing is that the mancs have a pretty soft set of fixtures coming up (Burnley, Watford, Wolves, West Ham, Newcastle) - so either Mourinho accumulates a succession of easy wins and goes on his usual mad rampage of self-congratulation, or they somehow contrive to cock it up and he can finally hand in his extra-large breakfast plate and leave the hotel. Pass the popcorn.
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Every single one of those team has the potential to cause an upset.

Burnley - good team from last season, bad run but should turn up at some point
Watford - 3 wins on the trot
Wolves - see match against Citeh
West Ham - Good team on paper
Newcastle - Rafa

I'll say they are in some deep shit at current form.
 
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