Tottenham Riots

[singlerider]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377255#msg1377255 date=1312968938]
This is fuck all to do with race.
[/quote]

Doesn't mean it won't get painted like that though Sunny.

Sad fact is that many of the places this is kicking off in London are predominantly black, because they are areas of social deprivation, and black people are far more likely to be born into that and struggle to get out of it.

Now the fact that they're black has got fuck all to do with the riots themselves, it's because they're poor and uneducated - but that don't stop people making the connection

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=themn link=topic=46360.msg1377258#msg1377258 date=1312969163]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377255#msg1377255 date=1312968938]
This is fuck all to do with race.
[/quote]

*We* know that but we also know how it can be painted as such.
[/quote]

I know you know I just couldnt be arsed posting another monlogue on what bellends the EDL are. You're right though - these are the situations that the far right take advantage of.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1377260#msg1377260 date=1312969479]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377206#msg1377206 date=1312963044]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=46360.msg1377205#msg1377205 date=1312962834]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377188#msg1377188 date=1312960798]
And this is the danger now. People are becoming angry and will start taking action themselves which doesn't help anything. Some kids on the telly were at least honest saying they were there for money and nothing else. Justfiying themeselves because the police nick them for stupid things and this is payback. Others lamenting that they feel they don't have a future. Well sorry but when I left school in 1989 we didn't have a future and I had to take a job that paid £30 a fucking week at first. We didn't riot though we got off our arses and went down the job centre every fucking day. Applied for every job we could. Went on every course we could to better ourselves. This rioting is a piss poor excuse for a bone idle generation we've allowed to develop that think life owes them a living without making any effort themselves to put it right. They're complete scum as are those degenerates who have the front to call themselves parents.
[/quote]

30 years ago in the UK, the same lazy bums were around too. People preferred dole rather than work! How do we solve a problem like that?




[/quote]

Sorry mate, but did they fuck. People wanted to work. People had pride and some self respect at least more so than they do now. There will always be a scum element who want to do fuck all but as far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be allowed to get anything for nothing.
[/quote]

I lived in Toxteth 30 years ago when I was a kid. Here's a couple of things I know for certain. A lot of people didn't want a job and were quite happy screwing the place all day long. Some of them who were out throwing bottles then at the police as kids were out setting fire to cars last night as men, with their own kids and grandkids with them.
[/quote]

And I grew up in Fazakerley mate. And most people I know wanted to work and didn't behave like bellends. In fact all of them got jobs in the end. I don't doubt lazy cunts existed then though but there were a lot more problems in Toxteth than just unemployment weren't there? Was there not massive race relations issues and other police related issues?

 

[themn]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377265#msg1377265 date=1312969880]
[quote author=themn link=topic=46360.msg1377258#msg1377258 date=1312969163]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377255#msg1377255 date=1312968938]
This is fuck all to do with race.
[/quote]

*We* know that but we also know how it can be painted as such.
[/quote]

I know you know I just couldnt be arsed posting another monlogue on what bellends the EDL are. You're right though - these are the situations that the far right take advantage of.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know you know I know.

 

[Portly]

I don't think the Army should be involved unless the police have clearly failed to deal with the problem. They haven't had much experience of riot control in recent years.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Btw single, that is cool ... and funnily enough, expected!

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=themn link=topic=46360.msg1377267#msg1377267 date=1312970094]

Yeah, I know you know I know.
[/quote]

That's good to know.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=46360.msg1377268#msg1377268 date=1312970144]
I don't think the Army should be involved unless the police have clearly failed to deal with the problem. They haven't had much experience of riot control in recent years.
[/quote]

Agree with this.

 

[Judge Jules]

So do I, but I would not agree with waiting too much longer to see whether it's necessary. We don't just have to get on top of this, we have to do it quick.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46360.msg1377277#msg1377277 date=1312971285]
So do I, but I would not agree with waiting too much longer to see whether it's necessary. We don't just have to get on top of this, we have to do it quick.
[/quote]
Agree with that

 

[singlerider]

Appaz Hackney was quiet last night.

This will tail off pretty quickly, precisely because they're just fuckwits looking to smash shit up. If they had a cause, an ideology, they might have a bit of sticking power, but they just want to smash and grab. They're probably too busy setting up their new Playstations etc

 

[Judge Jules]

I hope you're right. What worries me is that they may have got a taste for the sheer devilment of it.

 

[singlerider]

According to the Daily Mail, the problems are down to the liberals moaning about the phonehacking scandal and forcing Stephenson out of a job.

Seriously

 

[Woland]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46360.msg1377284#msg1377284 date=1312972625]
I hope you're right. What worries me is that they may have got a taste for the sheer devilment of it.
[/quote]

Ah, Judge. Stop making it sound so attractive.

There cars aren't going to turn themselves over!

 

[Judge Jules]

*Cackle*.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377286#msg1377286 date=1312973280]
According to the Daily Mail, the problems are down to the liberals moaning about the phonehacking scandal and forcing Stephenson out of a job.

Seriously
[/quote]

According to some these rioters have obviously taken their lead from corrupt politicians and bankers whose dodgy practices have led them to believe it's Ok to burn homes and cars and mow people down in cars. It all makes perfect sense.

 

[Woland]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377266#msg1377266 date=1312970050]
[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1377260#msg1377260 date=1312969479]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377206#msg1377206 date=1312963044]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=46360.msg1377205#msg1377205 date=1312962834]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377188#msg1377188 date=1312960798]
And this is the danger now. People are becoming angry and will start taking action themselves which doesn't help anything. Some kids on the telly were at least honest saying they were there for money and nothing else. Justfiying themeselves because the police nick them for stupid things and this is payback. Others lamenting that they feel they don't have a future. Well sorry but when I left school in 1989 we didn't have a future and I had to take a job that paid £30 a fucking week at first. We didn't riot though we got off our arses and went down the job centre every fucking day. Applied for every job we could. Went on every course we could to better ourselves. This rioting is a piss poor excuse for a bone idle generation we've allowed to develop that think life owes them a living without making any effort themselves to put it right. They're complete scum as are those degenerates who have the front to call themselves parents.
[/quote]

30 years ago in the UK, the same lazy bums were around too. People preferred dole rather than work! How do we solve a problem like that?




[/quote]

Sorry mate, but did they fuck. People wanted to work. People had pride and some self respect at least more so than they do now. There will always be a scum element who want to do fuck all but as far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be allowed to get anything for nothing.
[/quote]

I lived in Toxteth 30 years ago when I was a kid. Here's a couple of things I know for certain. A lot of people didn't want a job and were quite happy screwing the place all day long. Some of them who were out throwing bottles then at the police as kids were out setting fire to cars last night as men, with their own kids and grandkids with them.
[/quote]

And I grew up in Fazakerley mate. And most people I know wanted to work and didn't behave like bellends. In fact all of them got jobs in the end. I don't doubt lazy cunts existed then though but there were a lot more problems in Toxteth than just unemployment weren't there? Was there not massive race relations issues and other police related issues?
[/quote]

I've always known bums and thieves who weren't ever going to engage. The trouble is they breed quicker than most. Lots of the problems in Toxteth in the 80s were alleviated, but some became a new normal. Being allowed to depend on benefits and crime included.

 

[singlerider]

I think that's bullshit Sunny, but there is a somewhat valid point buried underneath it somewhere.

How much are these riots going to cost us the average Joe? Increased insurance premiums are a given, perhaps a loss on the value of some homes, obviously any costs incurred by councils will come out of our money and then you've got people who will be out of a job as a result.

Cost will probably be in the tens of millions.

Then look at the cost of the games the bankers, politicians etc have played (now the obvious argument at this point is what they did was within the law - which most of it indeed was - but surely that makes it more concerning) and see how much that has cost the country - hundreds of billions. Not only that, but many of the bankers actually made money out of it and just a few months down the line were actually walking away with massive bonuses again.

I guess the point I'm making is that when the poor people go looting they smash shit up and nick a few cameras and probably don't get caught. When the rich go looting they do it within the confines of the law and cost the taxpayer ten times more

 

[Sunny]

1132: BBC reporter at Highbury Magistrates Court John Brain tells BBC 5 live the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377295#msg1377295 date=1312975171]
I think that's bullshit Sunny, but there is a somewhat valid point buried underneath it somewhere.

How much are these riots going to cost us the average Joe? Increased insurance premiums are a given, perhaps a loss on the value of some homes, obviously any costs incurred by councils will come out of our money and then you've got people who will be out of a job as a result.

Cost will probably be in the tens of millions.

Then look at the cost of the games the bankers, politicians etc have played (now the obvious argument at this point is what they did was within the law - which most of it indeed was - but surely that makes it more concerning) and see how much that has cost the country - hundreds of billions. Not only that, but many of the bankers actually made money out of it and just a few months down the line were actually walking away with massive bonuses again
[/quote]

I think it's complete bullshit too mate. And I agree with what your saying. There's wide reaching issues with our country - it's obvious. None of it is any justification for what's gone on though. "Aggressive Late Night Shopping".

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1377294#msg1377294 date=1312975006]
I've always known bums and thieves who weren't ever going to engage. The trouble is they breed quicker than most. Lots of the problems in Toxteth in the 80s were alleviated, but some became a new normal. Being allowed to depend on benefits and crime included.
[/quote]

Yep couldn't agree more

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377297#msg1377297 date=1312975270]
1132: BBC reporter at Highbury Magistrates Court John Brain tells BBC 5 live the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon.
[/quote]

Fucking hell. And some people think there should be stronger discipline in the schools

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377297#msg1377297 date=1312975270]
1132: BBC reporter at Highbury Magistrates Court John Brain tells BBC 5 live the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon.
[/quote]

Committed to crown court for sentencing. So she'll more than likely be off to jail. Doubt she'll be a teacher for long then. Not sure if she got bail or not. Sounds like quite a few have been remanded in custody

 

[Athens]

I may sound like I'm getting slightly off topic here but let me explain. A few years ago I was studying in a city in Greece called Patra. It's got about 200,000 people in it so it's not exactly a peaceful village. Anyway one weekend they had set up a multi-coloured piece of art in one of the main squares, it was surrounded by about 15 or so easels. During the day people would use the easels to draw the sculpture and when they were finished they would leave and let someone else have a go. At night EVERYTHING was left there in the square. And you know what? Nothing was touched. Everything was exactly as they left it the night before. I know for a fact that if that was in Belfast the entire thing would of been trashed and probably set fire to. Is there a lack of disrespect among certain elements of society in the UK that doesn't seem to exist in other countries?

 

[ctlovesred]

This is all strange to me. I thought that wealth redistribution, strong social safety nets, socialized medicine, super high taxes on the rich, etc., were meant to ameliorate the plight of the poor? Yet there seems to be a strong class warfare element to these riots. So what exactly are all those programs (which are bankrupting both of our countries) doing if there is still among the beneficiaries such class envy that they are willing to do violence? I saw a quote from a couple of young ladies involved in the looting to the effect of "We are showing the rich people that we can do what we want." Maybe that's isolated thinking but really? Entitlements beget entitled people, perhaps?

 

[Woland]

What would have happened if it was left in Athens?

I dunno, just asking. If you get outside the cities you can do that kinda thing in the UK - but UK cities have a far more electric feel than a lot of the rest of Europe.

I prefer it to be honest. For all the problems, it also manifests itself in better music, art, etc.

 

[Athens]

I think in most of Athens it probably would of been left untouched. Obviously there are some parts where it would of been wrecked. There's a part of Athens where all the anarchists go to hang out so I'm not sure if it would of survived the night.

Although having said that if you stood still for long enough in Greece you would probably get covered in graffiti.

 

[Woland]

Protip: If you're claiming benefits you're not an anarchist. People don't know what it means, assume it's about smashing stuff up.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1377315#msg1377315 date=1312976605]
What would have happened if it was left in Athens?

I dunno, just asking. If you get outside the cities you can do that kinda thing in the UK - but UK cities have a far more electric feel than a lot of the rest of Europe.

I prefer it to be honest. For all the problems, it also manifests itself in better music, art, etc.
[/quote]

HMV due for a looting then?

 

[Woland]

That's a response to the Cher Lloyd debacle.