Torres
- Thread starter Rosco
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That record at Chelsea really is amazingly bad. I mean, we think of Torres as at his best in 07/08, which is fair enough, but it was only 09/10 that he got 18 in 22 games. Hell, he'd even starting scoring at the same rate in the few games he played under Kenny.
Wtf is going on?!
Wtf is going on?!
I would disagree with Villa Boas. I think his problem is mainly the physical side of things - that inevitably leads to a drop in confidence because you can't do what you once could.
Whatever the reason, thank fuck we sold him. (Awaits the "you should never sell your best players arguments"😉
Whatever the reason, thank fuck we sold him. (Awaits the "you should never sell your best players arguments"😉
I think we played to suit him more than Chelsea and Spain do. He's a player who thrives on space up top, but for Spain he plays off Villa and for Chelsea he's never really fitted their narrow, compact system plus they don't have Gerrard and the likes of Yossi feeding him. I know Yossi is barely a World beater, but he played some great through balls for Torres.
Aside from football though, mentally there's definitely something amiss, he's nowhere near the work hungry player we signed. Has he believed his own hype and fallen behind? Probably.
Aside from football though, mentally there's definitely something amiss, he's nowhere near the work hungry player we signed. Has he believed his own hype and fallen behind? Probably.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396216#msg1396216 date=1315551335]
I think we played to suit him more than Chelsea and Spain do. He's a player who thrives on space up top, but for Spain he plays off Villa and for Chelsea he's never really fitted their narrow, compact system plus they don't have Gerrard and the likes of Yossi feeding him. I know Yossi is barely a World beater, but he played some great through balls for Torres.
Aside from football though, mentally there's definitely something amiss, he's nowhere near the work hungry player we signed. Has he believed his own hype and fallen behind? Probably.
[/quote]
You make some good points here Mark.
a) Rafa's system was designed to make the most out of Torres' talent. He didn't let us down, and just 'clicked' and was phenomenal.
b) He has seemed unhappy now for the better part of 30 months. Not sure what it is - but I thought he'd be 'happier' at Chelsea (just because he wasn't happy at Liverpool), and that hasn't happened. He looks miserable.
c) He doesn't fit in at all to Chelsea's system, so he's fucked there. 1 goal on a waterlogged pitch in 20+ appearances is a return that is horrifyingly poor. What are the odds Ngog scores more goals than him this season?
d) I think he still works hard Mark - but his body isn't what it was two years ago (which perhaps confirms what Vlad and others said around the time we sold him, "rumors that he's fucked"😉.
e) I think he needs to return to Spain to save his career ... Otherwise, he'll rival Kaka for biggest flop in recent history.
I think we played to suit him more than Chelsea and Spain do. He's a player who thrives on space up top, but for Spain he plays off Villa and for Chelsea he's never really fitted their narrow, compact system plus they don't have Gerrard and the likes of Yossi feeding him. I know Yossi is barely a World beater, but he played some great through balls for Torres.
Aside from football though, mentally there's definitely something amiss, he's nowhere near the work hungry player we signed. Has he believed his own hype and fallen behind? Probably.
[/quote]
You make some good points here Mark.
a) Rafa's system was designed to make the most out of Torres' talent. He didn't let us down, and just 'clicked' and was phenomenal.
b) He has seemed unhappy now for the better part of 30 months. Not sure what it is - but I thought he'd be 'happier' at Chelsea (just because he wasn't happy at Liverpool), and that hasn't happened. He looks miserable.
c) He doesn't fit in at all to Chelsea's system, so he's fucked there. 1 goal on a waterlogged pitch in 20+ appearances is a return that is horrifyingly poor. What are the odds Ngog scores more goals than him this season?
d) I think he still works hard Mark - but his body isn't what it was two years ago (which perhaps confirms what Vlad and others said around the time we sold him, "rumors that he's fucked"😉.
e) I think he needs to return to Spain to save his career ... Otherwise, he'll rival Kaka for biggest flop in recent history.
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=46808.msg1396228#msg1396228 date=1315552418]
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396229#msg1396229 date=1315552576]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=46808.msg1396228#msg1396228 date=1315552418]
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
[/quote]
You actually read my post and have already forgotten letter e!?!?
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=46808.msg1396228#msg1396228 date=1315552418]
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
[/quote]
You actually read my post and have already forgotten letter e!?!?
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=46808.msg1396237#msg1396237 date=1315553495]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396229#msg1396229 date=1315552576]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=46808.msg1396228#msg1396228 date=1315552418]
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
[/quote]
You actually read my post and have already forgotten letter e!?!?
[/quote]
It's still far too early, I feel comatose!
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396229#msg1396229 date=1315552576]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=46808.msg1396228#msg1396228 date=1315552418]
His injury problems seem to have sapped his confidence and he doesn't look as if he's enjoying his football.
He needs to be out of the spotlight to regain his touch, probably with a lesser club who would play to his strengths rather than a top club who expect him to adapt.
[/quote]
If he has a poor season I can see him returning to Spain.
[/quote]
You actually read my post and have already forgotten letter e!?!?
[/quote]
It's still far too early, I feel comatose!
Some of you lot may raise a hollow laugh at this, but I don't think Torres was ever 100% happy about leaving LFC despite clearly becoming increasingly jacked off about what was going on at the club (weren't we all?). I'll always wonder how much of a part those agents of his played in his decision to go.
He'll probably go to Spain if it doesn't work out and start banging them in again but then go missing against some of the more aggressive teams. He really is a shadow of his former self and I don't think it's down to them not playing to suit him. A player like that should be able to score no matter what, a guy of his ability just really needs the ball at his feet. I mean it's not as if the players at Chelsea weren't passing the ball to the new kid.
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396239#msg1396239 date=1315553712]
Some of you lot may raise a hollow laugh at this, but I don't think Torres was ever 100% happy about leaving LFC despite clearly becoming increasingly jacked off about what was going on at the club (weren't we all?). I'll always wonder how much of a part those agents of his played in his decision to go.
[/quote]
no hollow, mirthless laugh here: the romantic in me does wonder if, as it were, his 'heart's in the highlands, a-chasing the deer'.
Some of you lot may raise a hollow laugh at this, but I don't think Torres was ever 100% happy about leaving LFC despite clearly becoming increasingly jacked off about what was going on at the club (weren't we all?). I'll always wonder how much of a part those agents of his played in his decision to go.
[/quote]
no hollow, mirthless laugh here: the romantic in me does wonder if, as it were, his 'heart's in the highlands, a-chasing the deer'.
I agree with JJ, I think he realised he made a big mistake as soon as he left,
He tried to convince himself otherwise and started spouting a lot of shite.
He must now realise he was far to hasty, and if he had stayed put could have been
a big part of the resurgence, and the owners put their money where their mouthsare. However he funded part of that and provided the shock that strengthened the argument for a complete rebuild.
For all his moping around he was happy here, and probably finds London a bit
Impersonal.
That and I think he has never been the same since his knee injury.
Regards
He tried to convince himself otherwise and started spouting a lot of shite.
He must now realise he was far to hasty, and if he had stayed put could have been
a big part of the resurgence, and the owners put their money where their mouthsare. However he funded part of that and provided the shock that strengthened the argument for a complete rebuild.
For all his moping around he was happy here, and probably finds London a bit
Impersonal.
That and I think he has never been the same since his knee injury.
Regards
Isn't that a load of bullshit though? I think Torres' 2 main assist providers while he was here were Pepe and himself. He just doesn't do what he used to - you know get pick up a clearance thirty yards out at the touchline, ghost past someone and welly it in. That happened regularly and Gerrard was usually still in our half.
[quote author=Cerberus link=topic=46808.msg1396222#msg1396222 date=1315551769]
This is weird I had a dream the cunt scored in the champions league final last night 🙁
I can still feel the drop in my stomach.
[/quote]
I also had a dream with a footballer in it last night.
Tobias Funke from Arrested Development was serving a platter of sausage rolls to some people. Due to some kind of typical Tobias style confusion Stevie G arrived at the same location with a film crew to demonstrate a new masturbation aid that he had been sponsored to plug and jizzed over the sausage rolls.
Fucking weird dream, Stevie G seemed pretty pleased with himself though.
This is weird I had a dream the cunt scored in the champions league final last night 🙁
I can still feel the drop in my stomach.
[/quote]
I also had a dream with a footballer in it last night.
Tobias Funke from Arrested Development was serving a platter of sausage rolls to some people. Due to some kind of typical Tobias style confusion Stevie G arrived at the same location with a film crew to demonstrate a new masturbation aid that he had been sponsored to plug and jizzed over the sausage rolls.
Fucking weird dream, Stevie G seemed pretty pleased with himself though.
[quote author=Krump link=topic=46808.msg1396254#msg1396254 date=1315556197]
Isn't that a load of bullshit though? I think Torres' 2 main assist providers while he was here were Pepe and himself. He just doesn't do what he used to - you know get pick up a clearance thirty yards out at the touchline, ghost past someone and welly it in. That happened regularly and Gerrard was usually still in our half.
[/quote]
I don't think it's because of the basic: Gerrard passes to Torres, Torres scores. I think it was more the partnership and the understanding. Torres set up alot of our chances aswell and as a partnership they generally looked a threat and made the rest of the midfield/attack work.
Isn't that a load of bullshit though? I think Torres' 2 main assist providers while he was here were Pepe and himself. He just doesn't do what he used to - you know get pick up a clearance thirty yards out at the touchline, ghost past someone and welly it in. That happened regularly and Gerrard was usually still in our half.
[/quote]
I don't think it's because of the basic: Gerrard passes to Torres, Torres scores. I think it was more the partnership and the understanding. Torres set up alot of our chances aswell and as a partnership they generally looked a threat and made the rest of the midfield/attack work.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396245#msg1396245 date=1315554016]
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=46808.msg1396258#msg1396258 date=1315556427]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396245#msg1396245 date=1315554016]
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
[/quote]
What rose tinted spectacles? He basically said they were incomparable: Torres will get you more goals but Suarez has a better all round game. Which is just well, fucking obvious. They're different types of player. One is a natural goalscorer, the other is more creative and has more in his locker, even if it will no doubt be sacrificed a touch in the goal tally.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396245#msg1396245 date=1315554016]
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
[/quote]
What rose tinted spectacles? He basically said they were incomparable: Torres will get you more goals but Suarez has a better all round game. Which is just well, fucking obvious. They're different types of player. One is a natural goalscorer, the other is more creative and has more in his locker, even if it will no doubt be sacrificed a touch in the goal tally.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396257#msg1396257 date=1315556415]
[quote author=Krump link=topic=46808.msg1396254#msg1396254 date=1315556197]
Isn't that a load of bullshit though? I think Torres' 2 main assist providers while he was here were Pepe and himself. He just doesn't do what he used to - you know get pick up a clearance thirty yards out at the touchline, ghost past someone and welly it in. That happened regularly and Gerrard was usually still in our half.
[/quote]
I don't think it's because of the basic: Gerrard passes to Torres, Torres scores. I think it was more the partnership and the understanding. Torres set up alot of our chances aswell and as a partnership they generally looked a threat and made the rest of the midfield/attack work.
[/quote]
That is true, but he'd still be effective without him if he could still drop his shoulder and curl the ball round the oncoming defender. Last time he did that was against Chelsea last season about a month before they bought him - and it was the first time he'd done it that season. Before that we were used to it happening all the time. No one can argue he hasn't had the ball in the same kind or areas with the same kind of space. I reckon his head is proper cabbaged. That's a medical term I learned at Harvard.
[quote author=Krump link=topic=46808.msg1396254#msg1396254 date=1315556197]
Isn't that a load of bullshit though? I think Torres' 2 main assist providers while he was here were Pepe and himself. He just doesn't do what he used to - you know get pick up a clearance thirty yards out at the touchline, ghost past someone and welly it in. That happened regularly and Gerrard was usually still in our half.
[/quote]
I don't think it's because of the basic: Gerrard passes to Torres, Torres scores. I think it was more the partnership and the understanding. Torres set up alot of our chances aswell and as a partnership they generally looked a threat and made the rest of the midfield/attack work.
[/quote]
That is true, but he'd still be effective without him if he could still drop his shoulder and curl the ball round the oncoming defender. Last time he did that was against Chelsea last season about a month before they bought him - and it was the first time he'd done it that season. Before that we were used to it happening all the time. No one can argue he hasn't had the ball in the same kind or areas with the same kind of space. I reckon his head is proper cabbaged. That's a medical term I learned at Harvard.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=46808.msg1396259#msg1396259 date=1315556592]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=46808.msg1396258#msg1396258 date=1315556427]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396245#msg1396245 date=1315554016]
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
[/quote]
What rose tinted spectacles? He basically said they were incomparable: Torres will get you more goals but Suarez has a better all round game. Which is just well, fucking obvious. They're different types of player. One is a natural goalscorer, the other is more creative and has more in his locker, even if it will no doubt be sacrificed a touch in the goal tally.
[/quote]
The way I read it was the he was strongly disagreeing that Torres was better back then. I know they're not like for like players, but Torres in that season was untouchable, I think sometimes we all try to forget that.
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=46808.msg1396258#msg1396258 date=1315556427]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46808.msg1396245#msg1396245 date=1315554016]
Strongly disagree with that Suarez comparison. An in-form Torres will get you more goals, but Suarez has already shown he has the better all-round game.
[/quote]
An inform Torres scored us three hatricks in three home games, and inform Torres scored us 33 goals in one season. Take your rose tinted specs off, Suarez is a fantastic, magnificent and magical player, but he has not matched up to Torres' level when he was at his best yet, not that I don't think he will, but he's got to prove that yet.
[/quote]
What rose tinted spectacles? He basically said they were incomparable: Torres will get you more goals but Suarez has a better all round game. Which is just well, fucking obvious. They're different types of player. One is a natural goalscorer, the other is more creative and has more in his locker, even if it will no doubt be sacrificed a touch in the goal tally.
[/quote]
The way I read it was the he was strongly disagreeing that Torres was better back then. I know they're not like for like players, but Torres in that season was untouchable, I think sometimes we all try to forget that.
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