Torres - Liverpool Fans Still Love Me
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Ross why could FSG not afford whatever amount of Suarez's fee that could not be funded by the club in January, and yet inject £30m for transfers the following summer?
Why did that 6 months make such a difference to their finanaces?
Why did that 6 months make such a difference to their finanaces?
Just for you this a link to an interview with Comolli who, as he was actually there at the time negotiating these deals, should know a bit more about it than you!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01rdlxp
If you can't open the link he says
1 Suarez was a complicated deal we had been working on since September
2 Torres was not going to be sold until he told the club he was off ( on the 21st or 22nd Jan ) He knew nothing about this nor did Henry.
3 Carroll was only on the agenda because of Torres leaving.
I think we can establish therefore that Suarez was signed to play with Torres.
4 Considering the way Torres downed tools ( see Carraghers comments about him ) and the way he handled his transfer I think it is not without justification that he should be described as a cunt
I can't be little
My impression was that we were concerned Ajax, who were playing hardball, would demand more $ if they knew we were selling Torres, so we did the Suarez deal first. Suarez was not a deadline day departure.
It was weird, Torres leaving felt like a betrayal, and I'm too old to get upset by this stuff.
It was weird, Torres leaving felt like a betrayal, and I'm too old to get upset by this stuff.
This is way off track.The main debating point here is surely whether Liverpool fans "love" Torres. Most I know give him credit for the superb player he was here in his first couple of seasons but lost a huge amount of respect for him for his sulking and the manner of his exit. Most think he's a bit of a dick and has reaped what he has sown. For most people the love has gone Fernando.
I love Torres, by selling his worthless arse to Chelsea we got the cash to help bring Luis Suarez to Liverpool.
This and the 'wikileaks queue' gag reveal that disdain bring out the best in you.
Looking back, I think the reason that transfer hurt so much was because it made us look like a 2nd tier club. Even now I don't think we were clever, just lucky.
His goal scoring was still one in two but his workrate was measurable and it was shit.
I don't think it was all luck.
I've been wondering if the truth of the Torres sale is that both he and the club knew his injuries had probably turned him into a bit of a crock and they agreed to a move to avoid all the problems for him and the club if he stayed. That would mean us taking the public position we have, "he demanded to leave", and him waiting until he'd left Chelsea before he would reveal the truth because of the reaction he'll get when he confesses.
I admit it's unlikely, but it would explain the current situation where he hints at 'the truth' but won't elaborate.
I admit it's unlikely, but it would explain the current situation where he hints at 'the truth' but won't elaborate.
And you keep peddling that fantasy version of what I'm saying. Nobody disputes that Torres hadn't been the same player for the previous 18 months. What I'm saying, and what I stand by, is that it's not clear that this was due to injury and that, if it had been, we'd have tried harder earlier to move him on.
Spot on.
I remember Torres's attitude being shit for months before he left but I still thought he was great and he was still scoring in a pretty poor and demoralized team.
He may have lost some pace but the Torres I remember scored all sorts of goals and wasn't solely reliant on his pace. He scored great headers, tap-ins, poacher goals, absurd volleys, and with powerful shots from outside the box. Surprisingly few of his goals were like that first famous one against Chelsea. So losing a bit of pace shouldn't have reduced his effectiveness quite so dramatically.
So I'm afraid I don't buy the 'Torres was finished' line of reasoning.
He may not have been at his very peak when he left, but I think moving clubs ultimately caused him to have a bit of a breakdown.
Often people who are very successful don't know why they are successful. I don't mean just players but even managers. I don't think, for example, that Benitez knows why he was so successful from 2002 to 2006 and less so since then. The factors he attributed to his early success are those he tried to introduce elsewhere and yet the results are always different. Likewise, Ferguson thinking that Moyes could pick up after him clearly shows to me that Ferguson himself doesn't even know why he was so successful.
It's like that in many different jobs where there's a collective effort and a complex system defining results, in the case of Torres, he probably also came to believe that he was making the club look good, whereas it was the other way around. The club gave him an environment which enabled him to thrive, this wasn't there for him at Chelsea, he also struggled to settle in and when his confidence started to go, that was the end of it.
He may have lost some pace but the Torres I remember scored all sorts of goals and wasn't solely reliant on his pace. He scored great headers, tap-ins, poacher goals, absurd volleys, and with powerful shots from outside the box. Surprisingly few of his goals were like that first famous one against Chelsea. So losing a bit of pace shouldn't have reduced his effectiveness quite so dramatically.
So I'm afraid I don't buy the 'Torres was finished' line of reasoning.
He may not have been at his very peak when he left, but I think moving clubs ultimately caused him to have a bit of a breakdown.
Often people who are very successful don't know why they are successful. I don't mean just players but even managers. I don't think, for example, that Benitez knows why he was so successful from 2002 to 2006 and less so since then. The factors he attributed to his early success are those he tried to introduce elsewhere and yet the results are always different. Likewise, Ferguson thinking that Moyes could pick up after him clearly shows to me that Ferguson himself doesn't even know why he was so successful.
It's like that in many different jobs where there's a collective effort and a complex system defining results, in the case of Torres, he probably also came to believe that he was making the club look good, whereas it was the other way around. The club gave him an environment which enabled him to thrive, this wasn't there for him at Chelsea, he also struggled to settle in and when his confidence started to go, that was the end of it.
If I met him somewhere I'm pretty sure I'll be more inclined to talk about the good times. I'm sure most of you will be like that too....just because it is the internet we are seeing an extra layer of cuntishness that people normally don't show in real life.
That's probably why he feels Liverpool fans still him.
That's probably why he feels Liverpool fans still him.
Agreed. It smacked of being seen as an also ran, while those vile Chelsea scumbags were a world football great. It hurt like hell and I'll never forgive him for that. Delighted his career has dribbled to a parody of itself.
Really well said Gene.
hero or zero?
Both at different times.
No, there's no way the club or fans wanted him out. The idea of a Torres / Suarez partnership was exciting regardless of comments that we had to sell to buy Suarez, we didn't. That makes all this "the truth will come out" stuff from Torres, which insinuates he had no other option but to leave, even less believable.
I'm surprised anyone felt particularly hurt or traumatised by his departure and how it made the club look. Had they been asleep for previous 6 months?
What made the club look diminished and pathetic was being dragged through the courts, hiring Roy Hodgson, being run by Christian Purslow, and signing the likes of Milan Jovanovic and Paul Konchesky. By the time we sold Torres nothing could faze me, and besides, I was confident in the new owners and that we'd finally be ok. What bothered me much more was spending £35m on Andy Carroll.
What made the club look diminished and pathetic was being dragged through the courts, hiring Roy Hodgson, being run by Christian Purslow, and signing the likes of Milan Jovanovic and Paul Konchesky. By the time we sold Torres nothing could faze me, and besides, I was confident in the new owners and that we'd finally be ok. What bothered me much more was spending £35m on Andy Carroll.
I'm going to listen to you more from now on Peter.
Suarez continuing to work hard on the pitch isn't really an accolade, it (was) his job. It's hardly a reason alone to keep (and I'm not suggesting you're saying it was the only reason by the way) to keep a striker who wanted away so badly.
People have short memories here. Suarez could not have tried any fucking harder to get away from us - I'd say he put far more effort into that than Torres too - and the disrespect he showed to the club, his manager, and the fans last summer was incredible.
But, people move on I guess.
Completely right the point being though that Torres didn't bother at all under Hodge - he just downed tools. Of course stone age Hodge's long ball tactics didn't help, but I can't remember a more disinterested player
He did try his best and I thought it was great the club told him to get fucked and put him training in the reserves as punishment for that lack of respect. He's not sulked on the pitch though in the slightest quite the opposite.
You are probably right but it doesn't make it not true! These self absorbed multi millionaires up their own arses just make me hate the game sometimes, shame coz theres so much to love as a lfc fan at the moment !
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