Title Defence -are we just knackered?
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[article]Is it just the injuries? Is it just the schedule? Is it enough simply to say that, given the way they play, given the fact they have been without their three first-choice central defenders for large parts of the season, that Liverpool have been up against it and that, given more normal conditions, they will rise again? Or, after their 4-1 defeat against Manchester City on Sunday, is there something more serious going on?
First, what Roy Keane would dismiss as the excuses. They have been unlucky with injuries, less in their number than in their concentration at the heart of the defence: Virgil van Dijk, Joe Gomez and Joël Matip have begun just 22 league games between them this season. Liverpool, as a result, have had 12 starting centre-back pairings and, given that has frequently involved Fabinho or Jordan Henderson dropping into the back four, that has had a knock-on impact in midfield.
In a team as interconnected as Liverpool, that is always going to have an impact, a change in one part of the mechanism having serious ramifications elsewhere. For sides that play an intense and sophisticated pressing game, the compressed nature of the calendar is going to have more of an impact than for those who play a less dynamic integrated style, or who are less reliant on specific preparation for each individual match.
But just because that is true does not mean there may not be other, deeper-lying factors at work. Jürgen Klopp’s recent spikiness is perhaps indicative of his frustration, of an awareness that this might be more than a blip. The disagreement with BT’s Des Kelly came after a 1-1 draw against Brighton at the end of November. Since then there have been spats with Chris Wilder, José Mourinho and Sean Dyche before last week’s bizarre and inaccurate claims about City’s comparative schedule. In that time Liverpool have won just five of 14 Premier League games.
But dramatic as the recent downturn has been – three home defeats in a row after 68 unbeaten, just nine points from their past nine league games, in five of which they’ve failed to score – it has not come entirely without warning. Since beating Leicester 4-0 on Boxing Day last season, the path has been downhill. That was a remarkably high starting point, and Liverpool did win their next nine league games, but they were not playing with quite the same verve and fluency as they had towards the end of the first half of that season.
They were scratchy after the season restart, but with the title in effect already won, that was understandable enough. This season, it should be remembered that the 7-2 defeat at Aston Villa came before Van Dijk’s injury – but again there was a ready explanation in the difficulty of organising a press in the current circumstances. Not all excuses are invalid, whatever Keane may say, but Liverpool have not quite been at their best for more than a year now.
It may simply be fatigue – mental as much as physical. This is a side, after all, that had been approaching the summit for three years: Champions League final, Champions League victory, a first league title in 30 years. The core of the team has not changed in that time: if, in the face of adversity, they go to the well again and find this time it is dry, it’s perhaps no great surprise. Béla Guttmann’s maxim that “the third year is fatal” is usually applied to managers, but it can also be true of players.
Entropy is the curse of all football teams and Klopp perhaps recognised that when he signed Thiago Alcântara. There has been criticism that he slows the game down, but that is precisely the point: to help Liverpool protect possession and win games without playing constantly at full tilt. Integration has been complicated, though, by the fact he has constantly been playing in a patched-up midfield. Only once this season has he been able to start alongside Henderson and Fabinho in midfield – and that was in that fateful game at Everton in which Van Dijk was injured.
If a team go unchanged for too long, opponents get used to them and staleness can set in. The 4-3-3 has remained almost constant, and Klopp has adapted his press far less than, say, Pep Guardiola. When it works, as against Tottenham, the results can still be impressive, but Sunday suggested a weariness about them.
As a study in the Athletic last week noted, despite all the injuries, seven Liverpool players have still played 80% or more of this season. More concerning, perhaps, is the fact that, weighted by minute played, this is the oldest squad in Liverpool’s Premier League history – and only some of that is down to James Milner.
Roberto Firmino was 29 in October. Sadio Mané will turn 29 in April and Mohamed Salah in June. Individually, none of that is cause for concern, but a united growing old together is a worry, particularly when this is a fourth season together. Takumi Minamino was an attempt to freshen that up but, for whatever reason, he hasn’t worked out while Diogo Jota, who had added new life, has been injured since the beginning of December.
Which perhaps brings us back to where we came in. Liverpool have been unlucky with injuries but that misfortune has highlighted underlying issues with a squad that has probably just passed its peak.[/article]
[article]Carragher says Liverpool are suffering because they don't have the strength in depth enjoyed by Ferguson's great United sides or Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams - meaning they have become too reliant on the same group of players.
"Liverpool haven't got the squad and quality of back-ups of other clubs," said Carragher, speaking on Sky Sports' Monday Night Football .
"Liverpool wouldn't have won the trophies they have done over the last two or three years if they would have rotated.
"When Liverpool won the title last year, the first game of the season was Friday Night Football, Liverpool at home against Norwich.
"Sadio Mane had been in a tournament and had 10 days off - that was it - and then he was on the bench against Norwich.
"Now Ferguson used to give the United lads one month off, so did [Arsene] Wenger. Twenty-eight days before you come back."
Carragher says Liverpool knew they didn't have the luxury of rotating players last season - having finished second the previous campaign despite just one defeat all season.
And the season before that, City had won the league with a record 100 points, having lost just twice themselves all term.
"Liverpool couldn't afford it [to rotate players] because Man City were that good for the two years, obviously getting 100 points," said the former Reds defender.
"Liverpool knew they couldn't lose a game. They had to go into that season thinking they had to win every game. We will see next season whether this is something permanent."
To illustrate Carragher's point, of Liverpool's starting line-up against City on Sunday, there were nine players who also started their Champions League final win over Tottenham in 2019.
The other two starters from that game in Madrid were Virgil van Dijk and Joel Matip - both currently injured long-term.
To stretch the point even further, seven of Sunday's starting line-up even kicked off the 2018 Champions League final defeat to Real Madrid.
Carragher believes Liverpool will return to the levels seen last season, but feels they need three new signings - who must be players good enough to come straight into the team, rather than back-up options.
"I'm convinced they'll be back," he said. "I still think they need three players.
"They need that centre-back - maybe he's joined now in Kabak - they need someone to replace Wijnaldum and they need someone in the front three.
"And I'm not talking about players on the bench. I'm talking about players that come into the team like Matip, Wijnaldum and Mane did - and like Salah, Van Dijk and Alisson did."[/article]
"I've thought about this for a while, I've always mentioned this with Liverpool and let's forget the goalkeeper [Karius]. We're talking about intensity, running and maybe Liverpool dropping off and looking a bit jaded physically.
"Look how similar this team still is to what Liverpool have today. That back four is still the two full-backs [Alexander-Arnold and Robertson], Van Dijk plays when he's fit and Dejan Lovren has moved on.
"He played but Matip would have played that final if he was fit and Gomez was still at the club.
"The midfield two is still Jordan Henderson and Wijnaldum first choice. James Milner has played the last four or five games as well.
"That's the one area where Liverpool did bring someone in, it was Fabinho. That's still Liverpool's first choice, so we're talking about one player.
"And then you have got the front three. It's still the same team that has been together for three years.
"Then you look at the percentage of Premier League minutes played from August 2018. You look at the numbers. Alexander-Arnold 83%, Van Dijk 81%, Robertson 94%. Henderson had a couple of injuries, Wijnaldum very rarely out and the front three very rarely get injured.
"This is a team who have gone to the well for three years and produced unbelievable moments, trophies for the club. That's why I find it to be too critical of what I'm seeing at the minute."
Carragher then focused on Robertson, who has featured the most since the 2018 final, adding: "Actually seeing Robertson as the highest number, I felt a bit for him for the fourth goal against Man City.
"When that ball went over his head, I was watching in commentary and I was thinking 'that's not Andy Robertson, he's not got out there quick enough'.
"That's not him, we are talking about the most aggressive, intense full-back we've seen for the last three years. It was almost physical and mental fatigue.
"When that ball goes over your head and you're like 'ah, I've got to go again'. He didn't get out quick, and that's not like him. That's why I won't be too critical."
"This isn't an attitude thing. This is not a team who thinks we've won the league, we've made it. They just haven't stopped for three years.
"That team [from the 2018 Champions League final], is basically still the team now. That's why they need a little bit of help."[/article]
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All we can hope for now is that everyone gets fit for next season.
Still content after winning back to back CL and League.
Definitely possible to win the CL but lots of variables would have to fall into place.
Still content after winning back to back CL and League.
Definitely possible to win the CL but lots of variables would have to fall into place.
With Euros potentially on this summer, it will get worse before it gets better. When is the next AFCON? Will our squad get any breaks?
We really need to retool and reinforce and shed deadwood in the summer transfer window.
We really need to retool and reinforce and shed deadwood in the summer transfer window.
Too much neurosis about our steep fall in form is unproductive.
We've had incredibly harsh luck with injuries to essential players and bad luck with key VAR decisions, all of which led to a precipitous loss of confidence. Had our loss of form come immediately after VVD's injury, the critics and fans would probably have been more charitable. As it turned out, it's become easy to trivialize, or minimize, the impact of losing all of our first choice CBs because we actually went top at Christmas.
There are some minor concerns, such as the players not responding to Klopp's encouragement like they used to, but I'm prepared to give all of the them the benefit of the doubt. They've earned it. I think I'm being honest when I say I cannot think of another team that would have done better in the circumstances.
We've had incredibly harsh luck with injuries to essential players and bad luck with key VAR decisions, all of which led to a precipitous loss of confidence. Had our loss of form come immediately after VVD's injury, the critics and fans would probably have been more charitable. As it turned out, it's become easy to trivialize, or minimize, the impact of losing all of our first choice CBs because we actually went top at Christmas.
There are some minor concerns, such as the players not responding to Klopp's encouragement like they used to, but I'm prepared to give all of the them the benefit of the doubt. They've earned it. I think I'm being honest when I say I cannot think of another team that would have done better in the circumstances.
And Chelsea and United absolutely destroying it in the last 30 mins.
That's pretty damning. Only the front 4 are scoring.
Title is gone... The important thing for me now is that the Blue half of Manchester are the ones that win it not the Red
Post-Leicester meltdown: delete this fool.
Besides defending, what we are missing from the loss of VvD and Gomez:
Hope we don’t fall back to looking knackered in the derby.
Firmino
Keita
Jota
Thiago
Has there been any title winning squad with as much injuries as us?
We went on out glut of bad results when we lost Gomez. Our creative outlets Robbo and Trent can't think about attacking only, they have to do some serious defending because now with out normal back 3 matip, vvd and gomez our back line is weak.
----------------------Ali----------------------
Trent ----Kabak-----Davis-----Robbo
--------------------Fabs(capt)----------------------
---------Ox/Kieta--------Thiago----------
--Salah------------------------ -----Mane----------
------------------Jota---------------------------------
We went on out glut of bad results when we lost Gomez. Our creative outlets Robbo and Trent can't think about attacking only, they have to do some serious defending because now with out normal back 3 matip, vvd and gomez our back line is weak.
----------------------Ali----------------------
Trent ----Kabak-----Davis-----Robbo
--------------------Fabs(capt)----------------------
---------Ox/Kieta--------Thiago----------
--Salah------------------------ -----Mane----------
------------------Jota---------------------------------
i say we attack like nutters and shoot at any cunt that stands in our way. Screw Defense, I am up for conceding 9 and scoring 10.
Like I give flying fuck what you want
Trust me the feeling is mutual - except that I know that what I am advocating in terms of winning games is the only way we will win from now on. We need to go back to that heavy metal football.
You can't blame Kabak or Phillips for that, it's 100% on Klopp and the coaching staff. Every game we are giving up 1 v 1 chances against the keeper because a simple through pass into space takes out our entire defence. Creating chances against us isn't the sign of a good team, you have to be a poor team not to be able to get at us.
I don't get it, it's been obvious since the Villa game and yet we've done nothing to change it. When your defensive set up makes Ross Barkley look like a prime Zidane then maybe its not that shit hot.
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