Title Defence -are we just knackered?

[Farkmaster]

Some dude on the radio now saying that it's because we're playing Gini at number 6 instead of Hendo or Fab. Gini had no tackles and no interceptions in both of our recent home losses, where the other two are always bang at it.

It's definitely the case that we aren't able to play our best midfield, but we can't always count on destructive play to create opportunities. This team doesn't have the energy to do that right now anyway, but it also misses the point. We aren't able to consistently do anything with the ball. Looking at a game like Brighton and thinking we needed more interceptions is almost a symptom of the rare flaws of our side for years now, now really coming home to roost.

 

[Woland]

But interceptions don't just give you possession, they give you space and chaos, and that's what we thrive on.

 

[tomasjj]

Yes, but teams line up two banks of four, and are very careful about exposing themselves.
A few key major parts to unlock that is missing from our toolbox, flair and creativity in midfield, someone with a decent shot from distance, and also a thug of a striker to offer something different.

 

[Fabio]

We're fucked. We've had 3 years of consistent excellence. The drop off was always coming, it's just been expedited by injuries.

Arsed.

 

[Woland]

Most of the goals I remember us scoring over the last few years were from us winning the ball off the other team when they weren't expecting it and whoever won it getting it to our front three in about a second. We're not winning it back anymore because Fabinho and Henderson are in defence, it's not Gini's thing, and Thiago is a luxury we can't currently afford.

 

[mark1975]

But interceptions don't just give you possession, they give you space and chaos, and that's what we thrive on.

Yep, and winning the ball back is the quickest way to catch the opposition on the front foot and hit them on the break, we win the ball there through Fabinho or Henderson and you know they will play a quick ball to get us on the move, it's about how we initiate the attack and how quickly we turn that possession around. We're not doing that. We have ball players all over the place so possession isn't a problem for us, but it's all laboured, allowing the opposition to get men behind the ball and to be organised.

Klopp's ethos is to win the ball back quickly and hit teams, we can't hit teams and be as ruthless as we can be if we haven't got that bite and aggression across the park.

 

[Squiggles]

Yep, and winning the ball back is the quickest way to catch the opposition on the front foot and hit them on the break, we win the ball there through Fabinho or Henderson and you know they will play a quick ball to get us on the move, it's about how we initiate the attack and how quickly we turn that possession around. We're not doing that. We have ball players all over the place so possession isn't a problem for us, but it's all laboured, allowing the opposition to get men behind the ball and to be organised.

Klopp's ethos is to win the ball back quickly and hit teams, we can't hit teams and be as ruthless as we can be if we haven't got that bite and aggression across the park.

Watching Højbjerg this season has made me really envious of Spurs having him. He's just got the right amount of controlled aggression on his game, and can cover both CB and DM. I understand why we didn't move for someone like that, but with how the season has panned out, he would have made a huge impact on this side.

 

[tomasjj]

Watching Højbjerg this season has made me really envious of Spurs having him. He's just got the right amount of controlled aggression on his game, and can cover both CB and DM. I understand why we didn't move for someone like that, but with how the season has panned out, he would have made a huge impact on this side.

Fabinho, no?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I don't think so. This team is in decline and more time won't make it less so due to the ages of our players, and our play style. A new team needs to be built and given our ownership it will have to be funded by selling salah or mane.

Decline or not, man city were in the same position too (exact same team give or take bar dias, and foden coming in and out of first 11) ... and they've had a far cleaner bill of health and as far as I can remember, far fewer "var is ruling this offsides because of a nose hair?" Moments.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Watching Højbjerg this season has made me really envious of Spurs having him. He's just got the right amount of controlled aggression on his game, and can cover both CB and DM. I understand why we didn't move for someone like that, but with how the season has panned out, he would have made a huge impact on this side.

We just need Fabs and Hendo actually playing in midfield and we're covered there. It's being short at the back that has impacted the midfield most.

 

[Farkmaster]

But interceptions don't just give you possession, they give you space and chaos, and that's what we thrive on.

Yes, but since we don't have the energy to press and will have less each year bar replacements, and we have tons of the ball, we need a bit more poetry and less chaos, is my point.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I don't think so. This team is in decline and more time won't make it less so due to the ages of our players, and our play style. A new team needs to be built and given our ownership it will have to be funded by selling salah or mane.

Do you not feel a year off of being perfect will bring the hunger back? We still have an outrageously good team and the best coach in the world.

 

[Dreambeliever]

When everyone was fit, we were top.

When a few big players (VVD, Gomez, Thiago) got injured, we were still top.

When a few more players got injured (Keita, Alli. Tsimikas, Trent) we were still top.

The drop off happened after Jota got injured, and the front 3, who were winning us games practically got no rotation/break.

This on top of fact that Robbo, Fab, Gini, Hendo practically got no break either.

I can't not look at our injury list and the amount of minutes some of our players have played and think we haven't been severely hampered. Not just by injuries, but by the share number of minutes those who were fit have had to play.

If there's one critique of Jurgen, you could argue that the squad is simply not good enough, as he simply hasn't been able to trust the likes of Neco, Rhys, Nate, Tsimikas, Ox, Shaq, Naby, Origi etc.

They're not the same level as a Mahrez, Mendy, Torres, Jesus, Fernandinho, Laporte or any other City sub.

We need to somehow find of upgrading the quality of our bench without paying extortionate wages to do it.

Eh? We weren’t top for most of the year and only got on top briefly before collapsing. Even pre VVD injury.

 

[Dreambeliever]

It's all because you said the league was a dead rubber, you daft bastard.

I hold my hands up. I thought us in second gear would be enough. It turns out we are in 4th gear and everyone else is in 3rd.

City have 3 pts more than last year. They aren’t doing that well.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I really hate this. I don't think a single one of our players is phoning it in. Firmino has always been a player who plays in spurts. Ox is only just back from one of his many potentially career ending injuries, and Origi has never been good enough. All of them are trying.

Not phoning it in, just the desire and hunger isn’t there and those players at 70% just don’t cut it.

 

[Dreambeliever]

We're fucked. We've had 3 years of consistent excellence. The drop off was always coming, it's just been expedited by injuries.

Arsed.

Ya if you told me when Klopp took over we’d be here I’d have bitten your hand off. I just hope we can bounce back next year like Chelsea did over a 5 year period winning the league every second year.

 

[Dreambeliever]

But interceptions don't just give you possession, they give you space and chaos, and that's what we thrive on.

Very valid point especially against the low block.

 

[ibromurph]

Eh? We weren’t top for most of the year and only got on top briefly before collapsing. Even pre VVD injury.

By top, I mean well in control of the title race. Top when you ignore pretenders like Spurs/Villa/Leicester/Everton. Top ahead of our only threats in City (and United).

 

[Dreambeliever]

By top, I mean well in control of the title race. Top when you ignore pretenders like Spurs/Villa/Leicester/Everton. Top ahead of our only threats in City (and United).

Fair enough but if we were actually at the same level as last year we’d still be miles clear. City have 3 pts more than last season we have just fallen so far. 7 pts out of 21 against the bottom 6 reaks of a lack of desire for me. We can lift it for the big games but don’t for the so called weaker sides, two of who have beaten us at home.

 

[RedStar]

Decline or not, man city were in the same position too (exact same team give or take bar dias, and foden coming in and out of first 11) ... and they've had a far cleaner bill of health and as far as I can remember, far fewer "var is ruling this offsides because of a nose hair?" Moments.

I think our style of play lends itself to more marginal offside calls than alot of other teams, Mané and Salah are constantly on the shoulder of the last defender trying to run in behind. City less so

VAR has probably cost them 2 CL finals though

 

[RedStar]

Fair enough but if we were actually at the same level as last year we’d still be miles clear. City have 3 pts more than last season we have just fallen so far. 7 pts out of 21 against the bottom 6 reaks of a lack of desire for me. We can lift it for the big games but don’t for the so called weaker sides, two of who have beaten us at home.

Either that or the tactical inflexibility to beat teams that set up to play a specific style. The top teams dont play that way.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Either that or the tactical inflexibility to beat teams that set up to play a specific style. The top teams dont play that way.

We can up against that week in week out last year and overcame it

 

[Frogfish]

But interceptions don't just give you possession, they give you space and chaos, and that's what we thrive on.

Indeed .. as well as restricting opposition opportunities and creating more for us.

There are a few players who do this really well : Hendo, Fabs, Keita, Milner and actually Thiago too. The fact all of those have either been playing out of position or injured (until recently in Thiago's case) just goes to highlight that point.

 

[Shay_K]

SIMPLES
The lack of a consistant (speedy) certrfe half pairing causes most of our problems. Klopps Plan A depends on us pushing our two high up the park and preventing any long ball break outs with the 2 big lads being able to mop up any hoofs out of defence coupled with Bobby & Ginis little fouls in the D. Fab and Jordan do the nornal stuff well but never the have the pace of VVD, Joey, and Matip to put enough pressure on the ball.
Klopp needs a new Plan (or 2 fast & really excellant CBs).

If X = Milner, Y = Gini & Z = Shaq

then

Alisson +(VVD + Gomez) + (TAA + Robbo) / [Hendo +Thiago] + - X ,Y or Z = easy win
..............................as long as Sadio & Mo (and or Bobby/Jota) are constants

 

[StevieM]

SIMPLES
The lack of a consistant (speedy) certrfe half pairing causes most of our problems. Klopps Plan A depends on us pushing our two high up the park and preventing any long ball break outs with the 2 big lads being able to mop up any hoofs out of defence coupled with Bobby & Ginis little fouls in the D. Fab and Jordan do the nornal stuff well but never the have the pace of VVD, Joey, and Matip to put enough pressure on the ball.
Klopp needs a new Plan (or 2 fast & really excellant CBs).

If X = Milner, Y = Gini & Z = Shaq

then

Alisson +(VVD + Gomez) + (TAA + Robbo) / [Hendo +Thiago] + - X ,Y or Z = easy win
..............................as long as Sadio & Mo (and or Bobby/Jota) are constants

If only Dantes hadn’t departed this dimension he’d be here to pull apart your maths and reconfigure the equation.

RIP Dantes.

 

[Shay_K]

If only Dantes hadn’t departed this dimension he’d be here to pull apart your maths and reconfigure the equation.

RIP Dantes.

What happened to Dantes?

 

[Frogfish]

What happened to Dantes?

Likely he's joined Q'Anon.

 

[Shay_K]

...for a minute there I though he really had gone off to join Oncey

 

[King Binny]

 

[darkstarexodus]

Both of those stats are absurd. We could do with some regression to the mean right about now.