Thiago - The real deal

[juniormember]

Can’t wait till we see a run of games with Fabinho, Hendo, and Thiago in midfield where we’ll actually get to see Thiago playing his true game, one he played for at Barca and Bayern, for the first time at Liverpool.
He’s world class. Why we have to get on his back during our worst injury crisis in memory, where he’s being asked to play a role he’s never played before, is beyond me.

 

[Frogfish]

Can’t wait till we see a run of games with Fabinho, Hendo, and Thiago in midfield where we’ll actually get to see Thiago playing his true game, one he played for at Barca and Bayern, for the first time at Liverpool.
He’s world class. Why we have to get on his back during our worst injury crisis in memory, where he’s being asked to play a role he’s never played before, is beyond me.

Clearly a scapegoat is required. Or a sacrifice - DB?

 

[MaBigTip]

let me clarify my position... I'm not scapegoating him. He isn't the reason we are in a bad way. But he is a liability without the ball in the premier league so far with the way he has been played and the personel we have available. It should come good.... he is supremely talented... but he'll have to adjust to the pace a bit and I still think he'll have to be covered defensively. Gini for Thiago is an interesting swap... I wouldn't have taken it, but it may pay off. We'll see, I don't predict the future like DB.

He was excellent last night in every capacity.

 

[Hansern]

Its not really strange that he had a dip in form after coming back from a long injury lay off. Thats what happens to all players, and he probably played to much to soon given our other injuries.
As one of the fitness coaches at a top football club over here said yesterday. You come back from a long injury lay off, and you produce at a high level immediately. But that energy is pretty soon gone and you'll have some games were it shows that you're of the pace. Quite naturally.
Then you build your fitness and match fitness up and get back to the level were you perform at the highest level.

Thiago has been through that dip and as said earlier probably played to much given our other injuries.
He looked in better shape and quicker in his thinking yesterday and back in rhythm.
Some of his first time passes when breaking up play were insanely good.

So, no he isnt shite. He's one of the best midfielders around, and we'll see the best of him when the midfield is set up as it should be and not when the most important parts of our spine is thrown together because of injury.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Wenger's take on Thiago - here.

Thiago is supremely talented, and I think may come out ok once our team stabilizes and we become ball dominant ... however, you cannot compare running Barca's midfield, and then Bayern's, to the current task. The current task does not allow him to do what he's best at - dictating play with a ball dominant team. I know I trolled the issue last week in the THiago vs Tsimkas post, but it will be tough to judge Thiago until next year.

 

[keniget]

I think the persistent fouling is a result of him trying to prove himself in this team and in this league. That speaks to his mentality and attitude in a really positive way. It's not his natural game to go win the ball back (though he does an okay job of it) but if he was just hanging around waiting for Gini et al to give him the ball, people would be calling for his head. Give the guy a break.

The whole team is struggling at the moment. I don't know if Thiago will ultimately prove a good signing (or that he's a "baller") but we can't judge him until this team gets back to normal. Hopefully that'll be next season.

 

[Woland]

Now, can he do it on a windy night at Stoke?

None of those stats show how he slows our game down. He can pass a ball all day but takes all day to do it.

 

[HC]

None of those stats show how he slows our game down. He can pass a ball all day but takes all day to do it.

I wonder what % of those passes completed were forwards, over a distance of more than 10 yards and offered us something 'positive' beyond retaining possession...

 

[tomasjj]

I wonder what % of those passes completed were forwards, over a distance of more than 10 yards and offered us something 'positive' beyond retaining possession...

Throw in those for Gini as well for context. 🙂

 

[jan]

Type of stats people used to post to say Lucas is great

 

[rurikbird]

None of those stats show how he slows our game down. He can pass a ball all day but takes all day to do it.

He normally passes the ball with 1-2 touches unless he is challenged and decides to progress forward by dribbling. Gini and even Jones dawdle on the ball far more than Thiago. His biggest issue is a relative lack of mobility, but no, I don’t see any problem with his passing.

 

[Woland]

When he hits it it's like when you're keeping a balloon in the air. Boss tekkers and everything but just fucking hit it quickly please

 

[HC]

Throw in those for Gini as well for context. 🙂

To be fair Gini isn't celebrated as the passing master and the man to unlock opposing teams, he (for us atleast) is a combative, high energy hustler.

 

[Squiggles]

As said, he's been used to teams dominating the ball all his life. From Barca to Bayern his job has been unlocking teams, dictating tempo and the play from the middle of the park. His cameo against Chelsea was his most influential performance to date, because we were well on top, had an extra man, and was just an extension of what Thiago has been doing all his life. There have been other strong performances in less favourable conditions. West Ham and Leipzig were two of them.

I'm confident that when Fabinho and Henderson are back in the middle, the side will have far greater control, which will give Thiago the platform to shine at what he does best. At the moment he's doing a role he's adequate at, in a side out of form, in a tougher, more physical league, after COVID and a lengthy injury. Plenty of reasons to be patient.

 

[moron]

As said, he's been used to teams dominating the ball all his life. From Barca to Bayern his job has been unlocking teams, dictating tempo and the play from the middle of the park. His cameo against Chelsea was his most influential performance to date because we were well on top and had an extra man, and was just an extension of what Thiago has been doing all his life, but there have been other strong performances in less favourable conditions. West Ham and Leipzig were two of them.

When Fabinho and Henderson are back in the middle, the side will have far greater control, which will give Thiago the platform to shine at what he does best. At the moment he's doing a role he's adequate at, in a side out of form, in a tougher, more physical league, after COVID and a lengthy injury. Plenty of reasons to be patient.

I would say his strongest performance to day was when he came on against Newcastle - we should have put away / scored a goal from at least a few of his balls. The Chelsea game - he came on did well but also gave a way a penalty if I remember correctly ? I will say this for him - he should avoid tackling of any kind, just chase the man and don't get in - coz he is late, and he has very little pace in my view. Great passer but needs protection around him. Right now - I would just love for us to have a potential goal-scoring midfielder of some kind in our team.

 

[Hansern]

I wonder what % of those passes completed were forwards, over a distance of more than 10 yards and offered us something 'positive' beyond retaining possession...

Wasnt there a post by Binny showing Thiago making more forward passes then any midfielder in the league?

 

[Mamma Mia]

Right now - I would just love for us to have a potential goal-scoring midfielder of some kind in our team.

 

[Woland]

Yeah I do like the idea of Curtis further up the pitch, but everyone is covering for someone at the minute

 

[Frogfish]

None of those stats show how he slows our game down. He can pass a ball all day but takes all day to do it.

I don't think you actually watched the game did you. Some of his passes (progressive, over 10m) under pressure, were superb.

 

[rurikbird]

Count them yourself. I lost count around 11 ... and the way he threads those long passes through midfield is amazing.

This is him playing for Bayern for fuck's sake!

 

[Red Bird]

Thought he was good last night. He was far quicker than Wijnaldum and Jones at releasing the ball when there is an outlet

 

[Frogfish]

This is him playing for Bayern for fuck's sake!

Haha Oh FFS Froggy ! Just Googled Liverpool vs RB Leipzig and that's what came up. Damn he played well in that game.

 

[Halmeister]

When the other team has the ball he is a liability. The opposite of how our midfield has worked.

IIRC only you and I were unhappy with him as a prospective signing.. And we are the ones saying Dreamy needs to be banned for us to start to heal. Its really all on the mods at this point.

Yeah I didn't see the point. Wijnaldum was tried and tested, around the same age, much less injury prone, already here, costs less on wages, suits our play more... I didn't see any point in going all out for Thiago and neglecting Gini as we have done.

That said, Thiago is clearly a talented footballer, and I think he will flourish when everyone is fit and in their proper position. I think he is being forced to play a role that's not suited to him. So I'm not judging him until he has Fabinho and Henderson alongside him in midfield and proper defenders behind him at the back

 

[Frogfish]

Yeah I didn't see the point. Wijnaldum was tried and tested, around the same age, much less injury prone, already here, costs less on wages, suits our play more... I didn't see any point in going all out for Thiago and neglecting Gini as we have done.

That said, Thiago is clearly a talented footballer, and I think he will flourish when everyone is fit and in their proper position. I think he is being forced to play a role that's not suited to him. So I'm not judging him until he has Fabinho and Henderson alongside him in midfield and proper defenders behind him at the back

Hang on. Gini has played in 24 / 24 PL matches (22 starts) and 7/7 CL matches this season (6 starts), 2/2 FAC (both starts), 1/1 Community Shield (started) and 1/1 LC match (as sub) , plus the club have been trying to get a contract done for a year. I can't see any neglect there at all (that said I'm not a party to negotiations so no-one here actually knows, rumours aside, what the negotiations entail).

Second paragraph is spot on.

 

[mark1975]

I think the persistent fouling is a result of him trying to prove himself in this team and in this league. That speaks to his mentality and attitude in a really positive way. It's not his natural game to go win the ball back (though he does an okay job of it) but if he was just hanging around waiting for Gini et al to give him the ball, people would be calling for his head. Give the guy a break.

The whole team is struggling at the moment. I don't know if Thiago will ultimately prove a good signing (or that he's a "baller") but we can't judge him until this team gets back to normal. Hopefully that'll be next season.

He made some important clearances too, but his tackling can be rash, it's something he'll learn and no doubt he will do less of it when Henderson and Fabinho are alongside him. I have been impressed with his willingness to get stuck in and his aerial ability. He's had no problems really acclimatizing to the physicality of the league and having a go, his decisions have just been a bit off.

 

[Woland]

I don't think you actually watched the game did you. Some of his passes (progressive, over 10m) under pressure, were superb.

No, I didn't watch the match.

 

[rurikbird]

No, I didn't watch the match.

That’s OK; at least you didn’t accidentally watch the Bayern game vs Leipzig like Froggy.

 

[Lippy]

None of those stats show how he slows our game down. He can pass a ball all day but takes all day to do it.

See I don't see any of that. For me, moves the ball quicker than any of the other midfielders. His tackling could improve but , for me, his midfield play is excellent. The whole team is out of kilter at the moment and it's all a bit skewed so it's hard to judge everything right now. I think he's absolute quality though and don't get some of the stick he's come in for

 

[Frogfish]

That’s OK; at least you didn’t accidentally watch the Bayern game vs Leipzig like Froggy.

Haha that's unforgivable. I'm never going to live that down. One for the ages.

 

[Woland]

See I don't see any of that. For me, moves the ball quicker than any of the other midfielders. His tackling could improve but , for me, his midfield play is excellent. The whole team is out of kilter at the moment and it's all a bit skewed so it's hard to judge everything right now. I think he's absolute quality though and don't get some of the stick he's come in for

I haven't written him off and he's obviously a very good footballer. He's just more xabi than gerrard and I think under klopp under these conditions we need more gerrard less xabi