Two good posts from mishra and kingjulian
The Worst Liverpool Manager Ever?
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[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42011.msg1180935#msg1180935 date=1285233351]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]
So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]
It's not just about throwing in as many youngsters as you can, is it?
He had to put a cohesive unit, and i don't think he did that today. He is rightly being criticized.
LB, RB, LM, RM were all clearly players playing out of position. Then you had the shambles at Centre midfield. We can play the same team again and the players still won't be able to take the game to the opposition. Because, playing an incoherent team like that does not happen "through out football".....
Then you have the inexplicable tactical inaction from Roy Hodgson. This is not the first time he has refused to change something even after seeing ample evidence that called out for a change, is it?
You were one of the posters who commended Roy for keeping things straight forward. He has played 4/5 players out of position, and picked a centre midfield partnership that will never work in a million years, and thought it was okay to not change anything at all for 90 minutes.....how is that straight forward?
You are defending just for the sake of defending. There are clearly things that Roy needs to change in his management style, and if he doesn't he will soon find that Liverpool fans don't have endless patience.....rightly so.
[/quote]
^^^
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]
So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]
It's not just about throwing in as many youngsters as you can, is it?
He had to put a cohesive unit, and i don't think he did that today. He is rightly being criticized.
LB, RB, LM, RM were all clearly players playing out of position. Then you had the shambles at Centre midfield. We can play the same team again and the players still won't be able to take the game to the opposition. Because, playing an incoherent team like that does not happen "through out football".....
Then you have the inexplicable tactical inaction from Roy Hodgson. This is not the first time he has refused to change something even after seeing ample evidence that called out for a change, is it?
You were one of the posters who commended Roy for keeping things straight forward. He has played 4/5 players out of position, and picked a centre midfield partnership that will never work in a million years, and thought it was okay to not change anything at all for 90 minutes.....how is that straight forward?
You are defending just for the sake of defending. There are clearly things that Roy needs to change in his management style, and if he doesn't he will soon find that Liverpool fans don't have endless patience.....rightly so.
[/quote]
^^^
The LRA! (Leave Roy Alone!) Brigade are fucking hilarious
Quit being an obnoxious prick Bren.
He needs time. Yeah he's been glaringly cautious with his use of subs, certainly with his reluctance to use them, though I don't agree with the bollocks Neil posted about the United game being an example of negative subs. Or Insig claiming we've gone into each match defensively (the lineups against City, Arsenal and United state otherwise, only a cretin would argue against that).
He played kids last night and is still being knocked for it, despite playing a fairly settled, experienced defence and frontline. Is it his fault the backline were all over the place against Northampton? Or that Babel can't pull his thumb out of his arse?
He's had a tough start to the campaign, is left with a shit 'squad', and his start is only marginally worse results wise than three of Benitez' seasons in charge (and Benitez didn't have three potential top four sides in his first six matches).
No one particularly wanted him, but this season was pretty much a write off from the word go, he needs support and every manager deserves time to prove themselves one way or another. No one said he would be a success and no one said it was going to be easy, but being a smarmy 'I told you so' cunt after 6 league games is pathetic.
As said elsewhere, it took him a few months to get to grips with Fulham and make his mark with them, Benitez might have had a more favourable record, but regardless he deserves 'some' time to get it right, not 6 fucking weeks.
He needs time. Yeah he's been glaringly cautious with his use of subs, certainly with his reluctance to use them, though I don't agree with the bollocks Neil posted about the United game being an example of negative subs. Or Insig claiming we've gone into each match defensively (the lineups against City, Arsenal and United state otherwise, only a cretin would argue against that).
He played kids last night and is still being knocked for it, despite playing a fairly settled, experienced defence and frontline. Is it his fault the backline were all over the place against Northampton? Or that Babel can't pull his thumb out of his arse?
He's had a tough start to the campaign, is left with a shit 'squad', and his start is only marginally worse results wise than three of Benitez' seasons in charge (and Benitez didn't have three potential top four sides in his first six matches).
No one particularly wanted him, but this season was pretty much a write off from the word go, he needs support and every manager deserves time to prove themselves one way or another. No one said he would be a success and no one said it was going to be easy, but being a smarmy 'I told you so' cunt after 6 league games is pathetic.
As said elsewhere, it took him a few months to get to grips with Fulham and make his mark with them, Benitez might have had a more favourable record, but regardless he deserves 'some' time to get it right, not 6 fucking weeks.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42011.msg1180931#msg1180931 date=1285232915]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180924#msg1180924 date=1285232406]
Roy is used to manage teams where the expectation is to kill off treaths. Switzerland, Finland, Blackburn, Fulham... You name it. Their main job was to kill off treaths from superior teams.
This attitude he has clearly brought with him. Nevermind that he spoke big words how he would use his squad to bring the best out off each player. He will still use it to kill off the other temas. That is his main ambition.
Against WBA at home. I bet big money on that if they hadnt had a man sent off we would have strenthen the defence towards the end. Against Man U. The biggest difference was that at 0-0 they wanted to win the game and we didnt. At 2-2 they wanted to win the game and we didnt.
Sorry to say so but Roy Hodgson is not the man to bring the best out of one of the best squads in England.
[/quote]
We have about the sixth-best squad in England.
[/quote]
Well. Then it is a bout time we start showing that!
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180924#msg1180924 date=1285232406]
Roy is used to manage teams where the expectation is to kill off treaths. Switzerland, Finland, Blackburn, Fulham... You name it. Their main job was to kill off treaths from superior teams.
This attitude he has clearly brought with him. Nevermind that he spoke big words how he would use his squad to bring the best out off each player. He will still use it to kill off the other temas. That is his main ambition.
Against WBA at home. I bet big money on that if they hadnt had a man sent off we would have strenthen the defence towards the end. Against Man U. The biggest difference was that at 0-0 they wanted to win the game and we didnt. At 2-2 they wanted to win the game and we didnt.
Sorry to say so but Roy Hodgson is not the man to bring the best out of one of the best squads in England.
[/quote]
We have about the sixth-best squad in England.
[/quote]
Well. Then it is a bout time we start showing that!
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42011.msg1180950#msg1180950 date=1285235210]
The LRA! (Leave Roy Alone!) Brigade are fucking hilarious
[/quote]
you should never get on a manager's back after a handful of games but it's difficult not to when said manager seems hopelessly out of his depth.
The LRA! (Leave Roy Alone!) Brigade are fucking hilarious
[/quote]
you should never get on a manager's back after a handful of games but it's difficult not to when said manager seems hopelessly out of his depth.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180970#msg1180970 date=1285236580]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[/quote]
Can't argue with that Insig, he needs to make changes. Though he did it at Old Trafford by putting on a striker and then Jovanovic and was STILL criticised for it and accused of being defensive.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[/quote]
Can't argue with that Insig, he needs to make changes. Though he did it at Old Trafford by putting on a striker and then Jovanovic and was STILL criticised for it and accused of being defensive.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I talk for anyone else but I'm taking no pleasure in this at all. I didn't want roy, don't rate roy, but I certainly want him to succeed. hoping he fucks up so he can be removed asap is biting off your nose to spite your face.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I talk for anyone else but I'm taking no pleasure in this at all. I didn't want roy, don't rate roy, but I certainly want him to succeed. hoping he fucks up so he can be removed asap is biting off your nose to spite your face.
Good post Kingjulian. I think it says what most of us didn't even have the energy to even think about after last night.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180972#msg1180972 date=1285236657]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180970#msg1180970 date=1285236580]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[/quote]
Can't argue with that Insig, he needs to make changes. Though he did it at Old Trafford by putting on a striker and then Jovanovic and was STILL criticised for it and accused of being defensive.
[/quote]
At Old Trafford we were to nil down and had to do something. And it did pay off. I still think that at Old Trafford we did ourselves harm by denying the full backs to assist in attack. They did not attack one single time, and it left us with no real lternatives wide. That had to be orders from Roy, because normally those two full backs are attacking a lot. And we for some reason fell down as soon as we got the second goal. They were groggy and if we had given it a rreal try and put them under more pressure the game could have looked completely different. Instead we invited them back to our box, and we lost it from there....
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180970#msg1180970 date=1285236580]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180966#msg1180966 date=1285236189]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180962#msg1180962 date=1285235944]
In terms of the league I agree with you Mark, but people would have been just as critical of Benitez when we crashed out against lower league opposition under him so you have to expect that Hodgson will get the same criticism.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree. What I don't agree with is people not even reading up on the facts, like the post before about him making up excuses? What excuses? His post match interview was pretty honest, he said we weren't good enough and he held his hands up for his part and apologised.
Then we get threads like this one on the back of this defeat. Yeah he deserves criticism for it, just like Rafa got for Burnley and the other domestic cup exits, what I take offence to is shit like this about him being the 'worst manager' blah blah, after 6 weeks, it's predictable, smug, egotistical bullshit.
[/quote]
I admire him for his honesty and you are ofcourse correct that abusing him his childish ad premature.
However, IF he sit in the dugout, watching us being shit, why the hell doesnt he do anything to correct it? Nothing. Zp. Is he just hoping it will fix itself?Or is it ok for him that it is shit as long as he is avere of it?
[/quote]
Can't argue with that Insig, he needs to make changes. Though he did it at Old Trafford by putting on a striker and then Jovanovic and was STILL criticised for it and accused of being defensive.
[/quote]
At Old Trafford we were to nil down and had to do something. And it did pay off. I still think that at Old Trafford we did ourselves harm by denying the full backs to assist in attack. They did not attack one single time, and it left us with no real lternatives wide. That had to be orders from Roy, because normally those two full backs are attacking a lot. And we for some reason fell down as soon as we got the second goal. They were groggy and if we had given it a rreal try and put them under more pressure the game could have looked completely different. Instead we invited them back to our box, and we lost it from there....
S
Squiggles
Guest
Didn't see the game, don't want to now, so I'm not going to comment.
But it's clear that Hodgson has to buck his ideas up, and soon.
The next 5 games are huge
But it's clear that Hodgson has to buck his ideas up, and soon.
The next 5 games are huge
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42011.msg1180979#msg1180979 date=1285237228]
Didn't see the game, don't want to now, so I'm not going to comment.
But it's clear that Hodgson has to buck his ideas up, and soon.
The next 5 games are huge
[/quote]
sunderland home
blackpool home
everton away
blackburn home
bolton away
As big as it gets for our proud club 🙂
Didn't see the game, don't want to now, so I'm not going to comment.
But it's clear that Hodgson has to buck his ideas up, and soon.
The next 5 games are huge
[/quote]
sunderland home
blackpool home
everton away
blackburn home
bolton away
As big as it gets for our proud club 🙂
Well if we go on even a decent run in the league over the next few weeks this will soon be forgotten but the worry is that its difficult to see where that decent run is coming from!
I do appreciate that he is prepared to hold his hands up and admit where we were not good enough, but honesty is only refreshing for so long isn't it?
Like when all of those people who praised Benitez for moving on players quickly when he realised they were shit, that becomes less of a good thing when it happens all the time.
I do appreciate that he is prepared to hold his hands up and admit where we were not good enough, but honesty is only refreshing for so long isn't it?
Like when all of those people who praised Benitez for moving on players quickly when he realised they were shit, that becomes less of a good thing when it happens all the time.
I'm just looking for more competent performances. prove that the players aren't just being flung together hoping something sticks, the peformances have been shambolic this season.
I don't think the bad tactics explains the result. There is something much more fundamental at issue here. I'm not entirely sure what it is though. Farkmaster has probably come closest in that regard.
The players that were playing out of position, three of them were playing in positions they've played in quite a number of times. That doesn't excuse the performance.
The players that were playing out of position, three of them were playing in positions they've played in quite a number of times. That doesn't excuse the performance.
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42011.msg1180934#msg1180934 date=1285233344]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42011.msg1180917#msg1180917 date=1285231860]
Our greatest problem since last season is our ever deteriorating spine. Two years ago, it was Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres. As good as any in England, and possibly Europe.
For most of this season, it has been Reina, an ageing Carra, the unreliable Agger/Skrtel, Fucking Poulsen, Hapless Lucas, Gerrard and Torres.
You could bring in Meireles for Lucas and make that look passable but it'd be significantly worse than what we had 2 years back. The spine is what a manager really needs to work on sorting immediately and I'm worried about the fact that he hasn't addressed it. People may point to the purchase of Meireles as his inclination to sort it out, that's not good enough for me. The spine is what he must get right in EVERY single game. And for the most part this season, he's stuck with Lucas and Poulsen in the middle when he has had the option of either using Gerrard back in midfield or embedding Shelvey and Pacheco, two of our brightest youngsters into the spine. What the spine needs above anything else, including experience, is quality and Hodgson seems to unable to spot it.
Just look at it last night. Agger, Kyrgiakos, Spearing, Lucas, Babel and N'gog. Spider-neil has it right - A mish-mash of players who'd never played together and were severely lacking in creativity through the middle. Had he played Wilson, Shelvey and Pacheco through the centre and had played actual wingers out wide, I doubt we would have lost. His hesitance in playing them suggests a lack of confidence or poor talent evaluation. In either case, it doesn’t bode well for us.
[/quote]
So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]
Mark, I would have called that criticism before the game. I've made my criticisms of his team selections for all games before they've even begun because I know they won't work. Take yesterday as an example, Babel and N'gog are not a good pairing at all. They're both unintelligent players who've rarely shown signs of combining well with players in any sort of partnership. I said this before the City game when N'gog and Torres played together. I don't rate N'gog in the best of times, but if you're going to play, play him as a lone striker where he's generally scored his goals, with someone behind him.
As for Pacheco, he is NOT a winger. His position playing for the reserves or for the Spanish youth sides has always been as a second striker or as a left forward, at worst. He's never played as a right winger, from what I know. Except both games he's been given by Hodgson this season has seen him on the right wing. Why? To my mind, it tells me lacks confidence to put him in the centre or is just a poor talent evaluator.
Why Shelvey is not given a chance is truly beyond me. He's shown EVERYTHING to be chosen ahead of Lucas and Spearing, and to my mind, even Poulsen (though that can be debated). And it's not like he's not physically ready for the first. He's a big strapping lad and looks the part of a Premiership footballer.
I really don't know Mark, what your point is regarding Hodgson. It’s all very well giving the manager time, but when he’s making fundamental mistakes and has a not too inspiring managerial record, it’s hard to be patient. Houllier and Benitez didn’t have earth shattering starts to their careers at Liverpool, but people could see the instant improvements they did bring, and it had to do a lot with the strengthening of the spine of the team. Houllier brough in Hyypia and Henchoz and shored things up while Benitez converted Carra into a centre-half and signed Alonso, masterstrokes from both of them. Hodgson’s first few days, have seen him converting our already deteriorating spine into a fucking pitiful one by replacing Mascherano with Poulsen. While this has not entirely been his fault given the lack of resources at hand, wasn’t one of the prime reasons we appointed him that that he could make the best use of limited resources?
[/quote]
Just for the record, Houllier was the one who started playing Carra there towards the end of his last season in charge.
As far as the rest of this top ic goes, knee jerk, the guy needs a little bit of time.
He started off very poor with Fulham too, but was given time and turned them into almost certain relegation candidates to a Uefa cup runner up team. Not to mention we've had a very tough start to our league campaign. We should have won last night, can't really defend that, but too early to judge the guy.
Give the guy a chance!
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42011.msg1180917#msg1180917 date=1285231860]
Our greatest problem since last season is our ever deteriorating spine. Two years ago, it was Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres. As good as any in England, and possibly Europe.
For most of this season, it has been Reina, an ageing Carra, the unreliable Agger/Skrtel, Fucking Poulsen, Hapless Lucas, Gerrard and Torres.
You could bring in Meireles for Lucas and make that look passable but it'd be significantly worse than what we had 2 years back. The spine is what a manager really needs to work on sorting immediately and I'm worried about the fact that he hasn't addressed it. People may point to the purchase of Meireles as his inclination to sort it out, that's not good enough for me. The spine is what he must get right in EVERY single game. And for the most part this season, he's stuck with Lucas and Poulsen in the middle when he has had the option of either using Gerrard back in midfield or embedding Shelvey and Pacheco, two of our brightest youngsters into the spine. What the spine needs above anything else, including experience, is quality and Hodgson seems to unable to spot it.
Just look at it last night. Agger, Kyrgiakos, Spearing, Lucas, Babel and N'gog. Spider-neil has it right - A mish-mash of players who'd never played together and were severely lacking in creativity through the middle. Had he played Wilson, Shelvey and Pacheco through the centre and had played actual wingers out wide, I doubt we would have lost. His hesitance in playing them suggests a lack of confidence or poor talent evaluation. In either case, it doesn’t bode well for us.
[/quote]
So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]
Mark, I would have called that criticism before the game. I've made my criticisms of his team selections for all games before they've even begun because I know they won't work. Take yesterday as an example, Babel and N'gog are not a good pairing at all. They're both unintelligent players who've rarely shown signs of combining well with players in any sort of partnership. I said this before the City game when N'gog and Torres played together. I don't rate N'gog in the best of times, but if you're going to play, play him as a lone striker where he's generally scored his goals, with someone behind him.
As for Pacheco, he is NOT a winger. His position playing for the reserves or for the Spanish youth sides has always been as a second striker or as a left forward, at worst. He's never played as a right winger, from what I know. Except both games he's been given by Hodgson this season has seen him on the right wing. Why? To my mind, it tells me lacks confidence to put him in the centre or is just a poor talent evaluator.
Why Shelvey is not given a chance is truly beyond me. He's shown EVERYTHING to be chosen ahead of Lucas and Spearing, and to my mind, even Poulsen (though that can be debated). And it's not like he's not physically ready for the first. He's a big strapping lad and looks the part of a Premiership footballer.
I really don't know Mark, what your point is regarding Hodgson. It’s all very well giving the manager time, but when he’s making fundamental mistakes and has a not too inspiring managerial record, it’s hard to be patient. Houllier and Benitez didn’t have earth shattering starts to their careers at Liverpool, but people could see the instant improvements they did bring, and it had to do a lot with the strengthening of the spine of the team. Houllier brough in Hyypia and Henchoz and shored things up while Benitez converted Carra into a centre-half and signed Alonso, masterstrokes from both of them. Hodgson’s first few days, have seen him converting our already deteriorating spine into a fucking pitiful one by replacing Mascherano with Poulsen. While this has not entirely been his fault given the lack of resources at hand, wasn’t one of the prime reasons we appointed him that that he could make the best use of limited resources?
[/quote]
Just for the record, Houllier was the one who started playing Carra there towards the end of his last season in charge.
As far as the rest of this top ic goes, knee jerk, the guy needs a little bit of time.
He started off very poor with Fulham too, but was given time and turned them into almost certain relegation candidates to a Uefa cup runner up team. Not to mention we've had a very tough start to our league campaign. We should have won last night, can't really defend that, but too early to judge the guy.
Give the guy a chance!
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Who else has played United, Birmingam (unbeaten at home for a year) and City away, not to mention Arsenal at home? We won't be 16 after the next 5 games. Have another look at the table too, we're 3 points away from a champions league spot. Beat City at home whenever it is and we're on a par with them. Perspectives!!!
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Who else has played United, Birmingam (unbeaten at home for a year) and City away, not to mention Arsenal at home? We won't be 16 after the next 5 games. Have another look at the table too, we're 3 points away from a champions league spot. Beat City at home whenever it is and we're on a par with them. Perspectives!!!
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42011.msg1180981#msg1180981 date=1285237413]
Well if we go on even a decent run in the league over the next few weeks this will soon be forgotten but the worry is that its difficult to see where that decent run is coming from!
I do appreciate that he is prepared to hold his hands up and admit where we were not good enough, but honesty is only refreshing for so long isn't it?
Like when all of those people who praised Benitez for moving on players quickly when he realised they were shit, that becomes less of a good thing when it happens all the time.
[/quote]
Nail on the head. He will get more time, and he is clearly not going to get the sack today. However, he has to change to keep his status, and based on past evidence it is difficult to see where that change is going to come. He has more or less repeated the same mistakes again and again. So it is understandable that supporters are feeling very negative about this. There is nothing surprising about that.
Lets wait to see what happens in the next game.
I want to see two things...
1. How he gets the best out of the mid-fielders at his disposal..
2. Him learning to react to what he sees on the field..
Well if we go on even a decent run in the league over the next few weeks this will soon be forgotten but the worry is that its difficult to see where that decent run is coming from!
I do appreciate that he is prepared to hold his hands up and admit where we were not good enough, but honesty is only refreshing for so long isn't it?
Like when all of those people who praised Benitez for moving on players quickly when he realised they were shit, that becomes less of a good thing when it happens all the time.
[/quote]
Nail on the head. He will get more time, and he is clearly not going to get the sack today. However, he has to change to keep his status, and based on past evidence it is difficult to see where that change is going to come. He has more or less repeated the same mistakes again and again. So it is understandable that supporters are feeling very negative about this. There is nothing surprising about that.
Lets wait to see what happens in the next game.
I want to see two things...
1. How he gets the best out of the mid-fielders at his disposal..
2. Him learning to react to what he sees on the field..
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180993#msg1180993 date=1285237967]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[/quote]
Yeah I'm probably being over-pessimistic. My perspective was where we are as opposed as to where we might be later on.
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[/quote]
Yeah I'm probably being over-pessimistic. My perspective was where we are as opposed as to where we might be later on.
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180993#msg1180993 date=1285237967]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[/quote]
I can understand what souness tried to do (reduce the age of the squad), he just attempted to do it too quickly
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42011.msg1180988#msg1180988 date=1285237801]
[quote author=crump link=topic=42011.msg1180983#msg1180983 date=1285237526]
As for the question that Brendan asks with the topic... I think you need to allow a bit of longevity to see if Roy can compete with Souness on that front, but it's unlikely he'll have such a catastrophic negative impact, given we were already 7th when he got here.
[/quote]
We are in 16th position in the League and out of a cup competition in the first round to 4th Division opponents though. 7th is looking good at the moment.
[/quote]
Yeah but Souness took us from being a Championship winning side to sixth in a few short years, totally ruined the fabric of the club, and left us in a shithole we've been stuck in for 20 years. So you know, perspective etc.
[/quote]
I can understand what souness tried to do (reduce the age of the squad), he just attempted to do it too quickly
It was a shocking performance yesterday and one that shouldn't just be brushed aside as "it's just the LC so who gives a fuck" imo.
That said i thought Roy would have done a fantastic job if he could get us back into the CL at the end of the season. After a run of 5 very tricky games to open with we are 3 points off of 4th (yeah thats right 3 fucking points). The least Roy deserves is a decent amount of time in order for us to fairly judge where we stand under his management.
It obviously looks pretty shite at the moment, but i'm prepared to wager that we'll be right in the mix for the CL spots after our next set of 5 fixtures.
That said i thought Roy would have done a fantastic job if he could get us back into the CL at the end of the season. After a run of 5 very tricky games to open with we are 3 points off of 4th (yeah thats right 3 fucking points). The least Roy deserves is a decent amount of time in order for us to fairly judge where we stand under his management.
It obviously looks pretty shite at the moment, but i'm prepared to wager that we'll be right in the mix for the CL spots after our next set of 5 fixtures.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42011.msg1180950#msg1180950 date=1285235210]
The LRA! (Leave Roy Alone!) Brigade are fucking hilarious
[/quote]
Well done you have achieved the same level of embarrassment that the Team last night achieved that is some doing, congratulations.
The LRA! (Leave Roy Alone!) Brigade are fucking hilarious
[/quote]
Well done you have achieved the same level of embarrassment that the Team last night achieved that is some doing, congratulations.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42011.msg1180623#msg1180623 date=1285192832]
Roy becomes the first manager in Liverpool history to get knocked out by a team from league two.
This season has started well hasn't it?!
[/quote]
We were knocked out by non-league Worcester City in 1959. That's lower than League 2 or the old Div 4.
Roy becomes the first manager in Liverpool history to get knocked out by a team from league two.
This season has started well hasn't it?!
[/quote]
We were knocked out by non-league Worcester City in 1959. That's lower than League 2 or the old Div 4.
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