The Worst Liverpool Manager Ever?

[Farkmaster]

In order to make this whole adventure work, Roy has to do one of a few things to get more out of the situation.

1) Make a series of clever deals over the summer with 0 net spend, effectively trading up as far as our needs were concerned.

He has failed to do this. We are essentially where we were before, if not worse. Mascherano and Aquilani gone and Meireles and Poulsen if anything makes us more defensively oriented, and we yet again miss anyone who will really play us into the attacking third intelligently.

2) Find a system which better utilises our players

He hasn't attempted anything differently, and crucially we've seen some of the same tactics where we play 2 DMs. DMs of insufficient quality which mean we have less time in the oppositions half and more in ours, and enjoy less, and less threatening possession. Of course our back four needs additional cover when even Northampton are invited at us.

3) Motivate our players
We were really unfortunate not to get a reward for pressing work against Arsenal, but I didn't think work rate and application was the main problem last year, and it won't be this. There was lots of toiling last year, but precious little football. Our players do need to have faith in a system of play which rewards effort, and if ours doesn't inspire that faith soon, we'll have a worse malaise than last year on our hands.

 

[Richey]

I've defended Hodgson in the league so far but I can't and won't defend a result like last night's.

Teams like Northampton should be beaten without any fuss.

 

[DHSC]

Maybe Joe Cole can provide us with that impetus in the attacking third Fark; but I know your view on him. Hopefully, in the interest of our club, I hope you're wrong.

As for the preferred formation, we should fuck the 4-2-3-1 and play a 4-4-2 diamond. We have no good wingers of any note but have good centre midfielders. With that formation, we can play Poulsen, Meireles, Gerrard and Cole in the same team. Our two strikers can pull out wide to provide width and the midfielders can attack the space. Our full backs will continue to overlap, knowing that Poulsen will be there to cover. Torres will also not have to face the brunt of the opposition's defence because he will have a striker partner.

Give it a try Roy. What else could go wrong?

 

[Jack D Rips]

I hope and pray that I never again hear the name Babel mentioned on a Liverpool teamsheet.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42011.msg1180854#msg1180854 date=1285227344]
Fair comments from Roy there actually. I hope his comments about learning a lot about the players involved, means that Babel and Lucas are finally on their way out.

When you have a winger/striker who was on the bench in a world cup final, who claims he wants to succeed and just look like he don't care when he's given the chance. It's time to fuck off.

Lucas can't even take the game by the scruff of the neck against a League two side, and is just not good enough.

Both should be gone in january.
[/quote]

lucas absolutely was one of the better players last night. given the result, that doesn't count for a hell of a lot but it is what it is.

 

[Hansern]

I have to say that the result against Northampton is more down to the players on the pitch rather than Roy.

That team is full of internationals and players with Premier League experience, and should be more than enough to beat Northampton.

One mistake was maybe not having a couple of senior players on the bench, but as Chelsea learned last night putting on two big guns can also mean injuries. With both Kalou and Benny getting injured.

Our bench last night was extremely young though, and that was a bit of a worry for me. Shelvey was our best player and should have started. Young, hungry and full of quality. Not like Lucas or Spearing.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180839#msg1180839 date=1285225945]
He said only one or two performed well and we didn't start playing until we were 2-1 down.
[/quote]

That is becoming a trend....which is very worrying. League or Cup, it seems we are scared of giving a goal away. and we invariably do - only after that we start playing.

I have not seen a single convincing performance from a Roy Hodgson team. This may not be the time to start nit-picking his working style, but this is also not the time to be defending him and offer him support. He has shown nothing so far to make us believe that he deserves that support.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42011.msg1180868#msg1180868 date=1285228741]
I have to say that the result against Northampton is more down to the players on the pitch rather than Roy.

That team is full of internationals and players with Premier League experience, and should be more than enough to beat Northampton.

One mistake was maybe not having a couple of senior players on the bench, but as Chelsea learned last night putting on two big guns can also mean injuries. With both Kalou and Benny getting injured.

Our bench last night was extremely young though, and that was a bit of a worry for me. Shelvey was our best player and should have started. Young, hungry and full of quality. Not like Lucas or Spearing.
[/quote]

the problem was the midfield had two CM that would give you very little creatively and two wide players who aren't wide players at all, it's not a surprise the team created little. we can all blame babel but how much of the ball was he given in good areas? the reserve wide players should have been brought on much earlier.

 

[Farkmaster]

It's not an issue with Cole being able to provide impetus, it's an issue with us being able to begin an attack and gain possession in the opposing third.

We used to achieve this with Alonso or Gerrard springing cross field balls to midfielders in wide positions. It was a common feature of our play for many years to see a long pass spreading play to whoever was wide (JAR, Garcia, Riera) etc. This would allow us to begin to maintain possession in the attacking third, and press high if we lost the ball. It was stifling.

Now teams do the same to us, because we play so narrow, there is space on the wings, and because we have two backward looking DMs, we tend to pass our way into trouble eventually.

Someone has to find the ball in space in the attacking third, and be clever enough to use it, and have movement around him, but they have to fucking get the ball first, and whoever it is there just isn't.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42011.msg1180870#msg1180870 date=1285228782]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180839#msg1180839 date=1285225945]
He said only one or two performed well and we didn't start playing until we were 2-1 down.
[/quote]

That is becoming a trend....which is very worrying. League or Cup, it seems we are scared of giving a goal away. and we invariably do - only after that we start playing.

I have not seen a single convincing performance from a Roy Hodgson team. This may not be the time to start nit-picking his working style, but this is also not the time to be defending him and offer him support. He has shown nothing so far to make us believe that he deserves that support.
[/quote]

The 4-1 in the EL.

I felt great after that match, we played well and scored goals!

Last nights team had no leader, no one was shouting at the players or organising, mind you we didn't seem to have a manager either, who the FUCK can sit there and watch that shit for 90 mins and not try to change things?

 

[DHSC]

I think I get what you mean.

However, we don't have any hotshit wingers (and for a long time already I might add), so maybe we can have the srikers pulling wide to receive the passes. We still have Gerrard, and Meireles and Cole look like they can pick a pass too. WIth 4 in midfield, we can stifle our the opposition when they have the ball. With Gerrard, Meireles and Cole playing, we can press high as well when we lose the ball because we still have *some* cover in midfield. It will depend on the trio getting back fast to provide defensive cover.

Although this formation is narrow, I believe that we can maintain possesion more, and the likelihood of the opposition attacking our flanks would thus be less.

With a diamond 4-4-2, we can have Gerrard, Cole and Meireles in the attacking third looking to pick a pass, or bursting through and there will def be movement because our strikers can pull out wide or play on the shoulder of the last defender.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

My pre-season prediction of Uncle Roy walking or sacked after 10 league games is right on track.

 

[HC]

I can't believe how little respect people have the cobblers

It was a cup competition- giant killings of this magbnitude and bigger happen every year.look at last seasons team we fielded when we went out of the f.a cup!

Or even rafas cl winning side.
League form and tactics go out of the window.

Hopefully roy treats the f.a cup with a tad more respect

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=42011.msg1180896#msg1180896 date=1285230350]
I can't believe how little respect people have the cobblers
[/quote]

Oh give it a rest already... they're a fucking relegation threatened league two side, whereas ours was full of players with Premiership, Champions League and international experience.

Torres, Gerrard, Reina et al. for every game, yeah?

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=42011.msg1180896#msg1180896 date=1285230350]
I can't believe how little respect people have the cobblers

It was a cup competition- giant killings of this magbnitude and bigger happen every year.look at last seasons team we fielded when we went out of the f.a cup!

Or even rafas cl winning side.
League form and tactics go out of the window.

Hopefully roy treats the f.a cup with a tad more respect
[/quote]

We were outplayed at Anfield by a team from so many divisions below us that when they look up clouds block there view of us.

We had no creativity and no leadership.

We had a manager who sat there with his head in his hands, frozen like it was all a bad dream, who couldn't think of a plan 'b' or make a tactical substitution in the 90 minutes.

Who was that team that refunded all the spectators not so long ago because they played crap? We should give all the poor sods who paid good money last night a full refund, just so they will turn up again later in the season

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=42011.msg1180896#msg1180896 date=1285230350]
I can't believe how little respect people have the cobblers

It was a cup competition- giant killings of this magbnitude and bigger happen every year.look at last seasons team we fielded when we went out of the f.a cup!

Or even rafas cl winning side.
League form and tactics go out of the window.

Hopefully roy treats the f.a cup with a tad more respect
[/quote]

I hope we get Norwich away.

 

[HC]

Did I say that?

No.

I'm not blaming roy outrigh; the squad he inherrited was piss weak

By the same token kids never win you silverware! You have to show these cups respect.

 

[HC]

Altho yeah, torres and raul could have started - defo.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42011.msg1180903#msg1180903 date=1285230720]
We were outplayed at Anfield by a team from so many divisions below us that when they look up clouds block there view of us.

We had no creativity and no leadership.

We had a manager who sat there with his head in his hands, frozen like it was all a bad dream, who couldn't think of a plan 'b' or make a tactical substitution in the 90 minutes.

Who was that team that refunded all the spectators not so long ago because they played crap? We should give all the poor sods who paid good money last night a full refund, just so they will turn up again later in the season
[/quote]

I don't think I often agree with you, but that was spot on.

 

[Avmenon]

What is most upsetting is that we've finally got real quality kids coming up who now won't get any game time of meaning and who'll get sold for peanuts in 3 years and we'll still be talking about the 'could have beens'.

Wow.

I just did a SPidey.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42011.msg1180543#msg1180543 date=1285191533]
So, is he? Is the hapless, budgie-faced old twat the worst since Souness?

[/quote]

Dunno yet, it's a bit early to say. It's not looking good though.

 

[dmishra]

Our greatest problem since last season is our ever deteriorating spine. Two years ago, it was Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres. As good as any in England, and possibly Europe.

For most of this season, it has been Reina, an ageing Carra, the unreliable Agger/Skrtel, Fucking Poulsen, Hapless Lucas, Gerrard and Torres.

You could bring in Meireles for Lucas and make that look passable but it'd be significantly worse than what we had 2 years back. The spine is what a manager really needs to work on sorting immediately and I'm worried about the fact that he hasn't addressed it. People may point to the purchase of Meireles as his inclination to sort it out, that's not good enough for me. The spine is what he must get right in EVERY single game. And for the most part this season, he's stuck with Lucas and Poulsen in the middle when he has had the option of either using Gerrard back in midfield or embedding Shelvey and Pacheco, two of our brightest youngsters into the spine. What the spine needs above anything else, including experience, is quality and Hodgson seems to unable to spot it.

Just look at it last night. Agger, Kyrgiakos, Spearing, Lucas, Babel and N'gog. Spider-neil has it right - A mish-mash of players who'd never played together and were severely lacking in creativity through the middle. Had he played Wilson, Shelvey and Pacheco through the centre and had played actual wingers out wide, I doubt we would have lost. His hesitance in playing them suggests a lack of confidence or poor talent evaluation. In either case, it doesn’t bode well for us.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42011.msg1180917#msg1180917 date=1285231860]
Our greatest problem since last season is our ever deteriorating spine. Two years ago, it was Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres. As good as any in England, and possibly Europe.

For most of this season, it has been Reina, an ageing Carra, the unreliable Agger/Skrtel, Fucking Poulsen, Hapless Lucas, Gerrard and Torres.

You could bring in Meireles for Lucas and make that look passable but it'd be significantly worse than what we had 2 years back. The spine is what a manager really needs to work on sorting immediately and I'm worried about the fact that he hasn't addressed it. People may point to the purchase of Meireles as his inclination to sort it out, that's not good enough for me. The spine is what he must get right in EVERY single game. And for the most part this season, he's stuck with Lucas and Poulsen in the middle when he has had the option of either using Gerrard back in midfield or embedding Shelvey and Pacheco, two of our brightest youngsters into the spine. What the spine needs above anything else, including experience, is quality and Hodgson seems to unable to spot it.

Just look at it last night. Agger, Kyrgiakos, Spearing, Lucas, Babel and N'gog. Spider-neil has it right - A mish-mash of players who'd never played together and were severely lacking in creativity through the middle. Had he played Wilson, Shelvey and Pacheco through the centre and had played actual wingers out wide, I doubt we would have lost. His hesitance in playing them suggests a lack of confidence or poor talent evaluation. In either case, it doesn’t bode well for us.

[/quote]

So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.

 

[manwithnoname]

A few more bad results on the bounce and Budgie's going to start feeling the heat from the fans. Won't be boooing directed at him, or "Hodgson Out!" chants, but I think we may be hearing a bit more of the "Dalglish!" clap soon.

 

[Dahuge]

So are we saying that we lost because the team hadn't played together before?

Well UTD and Arsenal won with team that hadn't played to gether before.....

Are we saying that the players at Northampton are better player?

No, we had several internationals out there last night, we should have won that game by at least 2 goals.

It boils down to motivation and desire, neitehr of which seemed to be there. The players last night should have been bustsing a gut to impress so that they can push their claims for a place in the starting 11, they didn't. This falls at t he door of the manager, it is his job alone to get the team ready both physically and mentally.....

 

[Insignificance]

Roy is used to manage teams where the expectation is to kill off treaths. Switzerland, Finland, Blackburn, Fulham... You name it. Their main job was to kill off treaths from superior teams.

This attitude he has clearly brought with him. Nevermind that he spoke big words how he would use his squad to bring the best out off each player. He will still use it to kill off the other temas. That is his main ambition.

Against WBA at home. I bet big money on that if they hadnt had a man sent off we would have strenthen the defence towards the end. Against Man U. The biggest difference was that at 0-0 they wanted to win the game and we didnt. At 2-2 they wanted to win the game and we didnt.

Sorry to say so but Roy Hodgson is not the man to bring the best out of one of the best squads in England.

 

[manwithnoname]

It boils down to motivation and desire, neitehr of which seemed to be there. The players last night should have been bustsing a gut to impress so that they can push their claims for a place in the starting 11, they didn't. This falls at t he door of the manager, it is his job alone to get the team ready both physically and mentally.....

"It's all just words, what happens on the pitch is what counts"

Ahahahahahahaha!

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42011.msg1180924#msg1180924 date=1285232406]
Roy is used to manage teams where the expectation is to kill off treaths. Switzerland, Finland, Blackburn, Fulham... You name it. Their main job was to kill off treaths from superior teams.

This attitude he has clearly brought with him. Nevermind that he spoke big words how he would use his squad to bring the best out off each player. He will still use it to kill off the other temas. That is his main ambition.

Against WBA at home. I bet big money on that if they hadnt had a man sent off we would have strenthen the defence towards the end. Against Man U. The biggest difference was that at 0-0 they wanted to win the game and we didnt. At 2-2 they wanted to win the game and we didnt.

Sorry to say so but Roy Hodgson is not the man to bring the best out of one of the best squads in England.
[/quote]

We have about the sixth-best squad in England.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=42011.msg1180917#msg1180917 date=1285231860]
Our greatest problem since last season is our ever deteriorating spine. Two years ago, it was Reina, Carra, Hyypia, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres. As good as any in England, and possibly Europe.

For most of this season, it has been Reina, an ageing Carra, the unreliable Agger/Skrtel, Fucking Poulsen, Hapless Lucas, Gerrard and Torres.

You could bring in Meireles for Lucas and make that look passable but it'd be significantly worse than what we had 2 years back. The spine is what a manager really needs to work on sorting immediately and I'm worried about the fact that he hasn't addressed it. People may point to the purchase of Meireles as his inclination to sort it out, that's not good enough for me. The spine is what he must get right in EVERY single game. And for the most part this season, he's stuck with Lucas and Poulsen in the middle when he has had the option of either using Gerrard back in midfield or embedding Shelvey and Pacheco, two of our brightest youngsters into the spine. What the spine needs above anything else, including experience, is quality and Hodgson seems to unable to spot it.

Just look at it last night. Agger, Kyrgiakos, Spearing, Lucas, Babel and N'gog. Spider-neil has it right - A mish-mash of players who'd never played together and were severely lacking in creativity through the middle. Had he played Wilson, Shelvey and Pacheco through the centre and had played actual wingers out wide, I doubt we would have lost. His hesitance in playing them suggests a lack of confidence or poor talent evaluation. In either case, it doesn’t bode well for us.

[/quote]

So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]
Mark, I would have called that criticism before the game. I've made my criticisms of his team selections for all games before they've even begun because I know they won't work. Take yesterday as an example, Babel and N'gog are not a good pairing at all. They're both unintelligent players who've rarely shown signs of combining well with players in any sort of partnership. I said this before the City game when N'gog and Torres played together. I don't rate N'gog in the best of times, but if you're going to play, play him as a lone striker where he's generally scored his goals, with someone behind him.

As for Pacheco, he is NOT a winger. His position playing for the reserves or for the Spanish youth sides has always been as a second striker or as a left forward, at worst. He's never played as a right winger, from what I know. Except both games he's been given by Hodgson this season has seen him on the right wing. Why? To my mind, it tells me lacks confidence to put him in the centre or is just a poor talent evaluator.

Why Shelvey is not given a chance is truly beyond me. He's shown EVERYTHING to be chosen ahead of Lucas and Spearing, and to my mind, even Poulsen (though that can be debated). And it's not like he's not physically ready for the first. He's a big strapping lad and looks the part of a Premiership footballer.

I really don't know Mark, what your point is regarding Hodgson. It’s all very well giving the manager time, but when he’s making fundamental mistakes and has a not too inspiring managerial record, it’s hard to be patient. Houllier and Benitez didn’t have earth shattering starts to their careers at Liverpool, but people could see the instant improvements they did bring, and it had to do a lot with the strengthening of the spine of the team. Houllier brough in Hyypia and Henchoz and shored things up while Benitez converted Carra into a centre-half and signed Alonso, masterstrokes from both of them. Hodgson’s first few days, have seen him converting our already deteriorating spine into a fucking pitiful one by replacing Mascherano with Poulsen. While this has not entirely been his fault given the lack of resources at hand, wasn’t one of the prime reasons we appointed him that that he could make the best use of limited resources?

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42011.msg1180920#msg1180920 date=1285232178]

So he plays youngsters and gets criticised for not playing the right youngsters? You could hardly blame him for going with an experienced pairing at centre back and choosing to put his young defenders at fullback, it happens throughout football well blooding young defenders, and Agger and The Greek have enough about them to cope (you'd have thought!). Pacheco has played wide alot and ahead of that we had two experienced attackers who should have offered more in coming deep for the ball. The main area of concern is (granted) central midfield and fair enough, Shelvey would be a better option than Spearing or/and Lucas.
[/quote]

It's not just about throwing in as many youngsters as you can, is it?

He had to put a cohesive unit, and i don't think he did that today. He is rightly being criticized.

LB, RB, LM, RM were all clearly players playing out of position. Then you had the shambles at Centre midfield. We can play the same team again and the players still won't be able to take the game to the opposition. Because, playing an incoherent team like that does not happen "through out football".....

Then you have the inexplicable tactical inaction from Roy Hodgson. This is not the first time he has refused to change something even after seeing ample evidence that called out for a change, is it?

You were one of the posters who commended Roy for keeping things straight forward. He has played 4/5 players out of position, and picked a centre midfield partnership that will never work in a million years, and thought it was okay to not change anything at all for 90 minutes.....how is that straight forward?

You are defending just for the sake of defending. There are clearly things that Roy needs to change in his management style, and if he doesn't he will soon find that Liverpool fans don't have endless patience.....rightly so.