The Welcome and good luck Woy thread

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40759.msg1127920#msg1127920 date=1277755461]
Jon, what you say would certainly be true if Kenny's appointment were on a permanent basis, but nobody - the man himself included - is suggesting that. His appointment would be specifically on an interim basis until the club has new owners, it being understood right from the start that he'd be replaced by the owners' preferred permanent appointment at that stage. They would factor that into their planning meanwhile, in order to be ready to hit the ground running when they got here.
[/quote]

In theory yeah, but in practice there's no way it'd be as simple as that. As an new owner you want things as simple as poss, a manager with the power he would have through the fans may be an issue.

 

[Judge Jules]

Fair point, but you'd also want the club in as healthy a state as can be, and there's a good case for reckoning Kenny better placed to achieve that.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

But we're not going to be taken over any time soon so appointing Kenny 'short term'.....well....what do you class as short term? A year?

 

[Judge Jules]

We don't know that, Sheiky. Broughton has gone on record as expecting a sale "within months", and he has a reputation to uphold. In any case, if - as I believe - Kenny's the best man for the job among the current field, that's a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I wouldn't hold your breath JJ.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

 

[keniget]

This just keeps coming up again and again.

There has been no clear indication that we'll be sold imminently and even if a sale isn't that far off, the owners may want someone in place at least in the short-term whilst they assess things. So it looks that whoever comes in now will have to prove himself worthy in order to be considered anything but a short-term / interim appointment, that is if they have any ambition of keeping the role.

The only question mark really is who this person should be. I really don't think finances come into it. In the grand scheme of things, the compensation we'll have to fork out to whoever gets it will be negligible (if they get binned soon after a takeover). Hodgson especially as it seems highly unlikely he'll get a long contract with 5M a year or whatever Rafa was on.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127997#msg1127997 date=1277762613]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.
[/quote]

So expectations have reduced.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127998#msg1127998 date=1277762652]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127997#msg1127997 date=1277762613]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.
[/quote]

So expectations have reduced.
[/quote]

Rafa had that expectation every year from when he joined with the exception of perhaps the first year. Why should Roy have lowered expectations? We underachieved last year. I would expect a top 4 place (forget about a challenge) and a cup or he can fuck off. In fact I don't want him here in the first place.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128000#msg1128000 date=1277762902]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127998#msg1127998 date=1277762652]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127997#msg1127997 date=1277762613]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.
[/quote]

So expectations have reduced.
[/quote]

Rafa had that expectation every year from when he joined with the exception of perhaps the first year. Why should Roy have lowered expectations? We underachieved last year. I would expect a top 4 place (forget about a challenge) and a cup or he can fuck off. In fact I don't want him here in the first place.
[/quote]

Errrrr....you've just answered your own question.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128001#msg1128001 date=1277763023]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128000#msg1128000 date=1277762902]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127998#msg1127998 date=1277762652]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127997#msg1127997 date=1277762613]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.
[/quote]

So expectations have reduced.
[/quote]

Rafa had that expectation every year from when he joined with the exception of perhaps the first year. Why should Roy have lowered expectations? We underachieved last year. I would expect a top 4 place (forget about a challenge) and a cup or he can fuck off. In fact I don't want him here in the first place.
[/quote]

Errrrr....you've just answered your own question.
[/quote]

Not really and you should well know it's not as simple as that. I did mention that we underachieved last season after challenging the season before. Therefore 7th place isn't our true level. But in no way, shape or form would I lower my expectations with Hodgson at the helm than I would if Rafa was in charge. Rafa's set the bar, the new manager has to match it, exceed it, or step.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128007#msg1128007 date=1277763826]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128001#msg1128001 date=1277763023]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128000#msg1128000 date=1277762902]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127998#msg1127998 date=1277762652]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127997#msg1127997 date=1277762613]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1127996#msg1127996 date=1277762549]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1127991#msg1127991 date=1277761960]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40759.msg1127978#msg1127978 date=1277759540]
Any manager that got us back in the top 4 would have had a successful season IMO. Whoever comes in, I'll support them - and success or failure will be judged purely on that basis.

[/quote]

Why not have the same conditions that Rafa had? I.e. a Premiership challenge and a cup or two?
[/quote]

Which team has finished as low as 7th one year and then gone onto to challenge for the title the next?
[/quote]

None.
[/quote]

So expectations have reduced.
[/quote]

Rafa had that expectation every year from when he joined with the exception of perhaps the first year. Why should Roy have lowered expectations? We underachieved last year. I would expect a top 4 place (forget about a challenge) and a cup or he can fuck off. In fact I don't want him here in the first place.
[/quote]

Errrrr....you've just answered your own question.
[/quote]

Not really and you should well know it's not as simple as that. I did mention that we underachieved last season after challenging the season before. Therefore 7th place isn't our true level. But in no way, shape or form would I lower my expectations with Hodgson at the helm than I would if Rafa was in charge. Rafa's set the bar, the new manager has to match it, exceed it, or step.
[/quote]
That'd be true if everything else in the club was equal, which of course it isn't.

In real terms, Rafa's bar was to get 4th place every year. It wasn't challenging. He didn't get 4th, now he's out.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

In his first season we expect Roy to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

In his first season (by your own admission) we expected Rafa to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

Expectations haven't been lowered for Hodgson.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128010#msg1128010 date=1277764015]
In his first season we expect Roy to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

In his first season (by your own admission) we expected Rafa to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

Expectations haven't been lowered for Hodgson.
[/quote]

Cool. I just wanted to clear that up. I'll go on record now. Barring a change in ownership, Hodgson will get no better than 6th.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128012#msg1128012 date=1277764339]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128010#msg1128010 date=1277764015]
In his first season we expect Roy to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

In his first season (by your own admission) we expected Rafa to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

Expectations haven't been lowered for Hodgson.
[/quote]

Cool. I just wanted to clear that up. I'll go on record now. Barring a change in ownership, Hodgson will get no better than 6th.
[/quote]

An improvement on Benitez then.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128012#msg1128012 date=1277764339]
I'll go on record now. Barring a change in ownership, Hodgson will get no better than 6th.
[/quote]

You may well be right.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128012#msg1128012 date=1277764339]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128010#msg1128010 date=1277764015]
In his first season we expect Roy to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

In his first season (by your own admission) we expected Rafa to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

Expectations haven't been lowered for Hodgson.
[/quote]

Cool. I just wanted to clear that up. I'll go on record now. Barring a change in ownership, Hodgson will get no better than 6th.
[/quote]

Is there another manager who you think would do better than 6th under the same conditions, AND would take a short term deal with little financial support?

I don't think there's any evidence to think Kenny would.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40759.msg1128013#msg1128013 date=1277764372]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128012#msg1128012 date=1277764339]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=40759.msg1128010#msg1128010 date=1277764015]
In his first season we expect Roy to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

In his first season (by your own admission) we expected Rafa to secure a Champions League place and challenge for a few cups.

Expectations haven't been lowered for Hodgson.
[/quote]

Cool. I just wanted to clear that up. I'll go on record now. Barring a change in ownership, Hodgson will get no better than 6th.
[/quote]

An improvement on Benitez then.
[/quote]

Not really, no, and how quickly some forget. Rafa won the Champions League, made another final, won the FA cup and made us a European powerhouse. The number 1 team in Europe. If you think Hodgson getting 6th is an improvement on Rafa you're sorely mistaken. Rafa had one bad season and deserved another to fix it. So to suggest that Hodgson getting 6th is an improvement on Rafa, is flippant and offensive.

 

[Wilko7]

If he comes to Liverpool I can see Roy surprising many by doing well.

Had the internet and football forums been in existence during the seventies, Paisley would have been dismissed out of hand as a mumbling, cardigan wearing old bastard before he even sat down in the manager's chair.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=40759.msg1128018#msg1128018 date=1277764967]
If he comes to Liverpool I can see Roy surprising many by doing well.

Had the internet and football forums been in existence during the seventies, Paisley would have been dismissed out of hand as a mumbling, cardigan wearing old bastard before he even sat down in the manager's chair.
[/quote]

Uh oh, you've gone & done it now.

(read my previous posts about just that)

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=40759.msg1128018#msg1128018 date=1277764967]
If he comes to Liverpool I can see Roy surprising many by doing well.

Had the internet and football forums been in existence during the seventies, Paisley would have been dismissed out of hand as a mumbling, cardigan wearing old bastard before he even sat down in the manager's chair.
[/quote]

I've already rubbished the Paisley/Shanks comparisons and have no desire to do it again. What I will ask though is what makes you think Hodgson will surprise many? Is it his inventiveness and innovation as a coach? It's certainly not his youth. Maybe his charisma? Scratch that, how about his track record? Not that either. Please enlighten me, I desperately need reassurance.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Assuming Kenny's not going to happen KopKing, who do you want?

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128020#msg1128020 date=1277765242]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=40759.msg1128018#msg1128018 date=1277764967]
If he comes to Liverpool I can see Roy surprising many by doing well.

Had the internet and football forums been in existence during the seventies, Paisley would have been dismissed out of hand as a mumbling, cardigan wearing old bastard before he even sat down in the manager's chair.
[/quote]

I've already rubbished the Paisley/Shanks comparisons and have no desire to do it again. What I will ask though is what makes you think Hodgson will surprise many? Is it his inventiveness and innovation as a coach? It's certainly not his youth. Maybe his charisma? Scratch that, how about his track record? Not that either. Please enlighten me, I desperately need reassurance.
[/quote]

It could be that Hodgson isn't a stubborn, easily upset manager who despite a cracking cv managed to give little imprint upon leaving of just what got him here in teh first place. I'm fully of the opinion that Roy has the ability to introduce a plan B; and is unafraid to drop those out of form. He also seems to be able to get the very best of some damned uninspiring players, something we could very much do with.

To write him off before he's signed on the dotted is to suggest you had more faith in his predecessor, the very man you have described yourself previously to be against: "Is it his inventiveness and innovation as a coach?", etc. We cannot know how he will do, and to suggest otherwise is well, stupid. You know full well that our expectations have lowered. Roy will come into a much harder scene than Rafa did 6 years ago. A threadbare squad lacking unity and silverware versus a wonderful squad with good spirit that just lackedthat killer instinct and a born goalscorer.

Conditions are being overlooked that would negate some of your points hugely, but it isn't in your interest to consider them when if it doesn't point to exactly how shit Roy Hodgson may or may not be as Liverpool manager this season. The jury may well be out, but let it at least hear from the defendant before the cries of the gallows, eh?

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40759.msg1128022#msg1128022 date=1277765527]
Assuming Kenny's not going to happen KopKing, who do you want?
[/quote]

I tell you who I don't want: Roy fucking Hodgson and I know you don't too, deep down. I want a manager that signals an intent that we want to be the best. When I See Roy Hodgson in the frame, I see nothing but mediocrity. That's all his career has achieved. Why all of a sudden at age 62 will be a top European coach?

I keep hearing 'safe hands' and 'stability', that's just a euphemism for someone who wont rock the boat and accept minimal investment willingly. i.e. a 'yes' man. The reason why people want Kenny is because they know in addition to an impeccable track record, he cares about the club passionately just like them. Until Kenny made it known he was available I wouldn't even have considered him and even then I dismissed it straight away and then after thought, it was the one appointment that made sense. Kenny can run with what Rafa had built, there's a dynasty there.

But to answer your question (finally) I think there are some bright coaches out there. I'd go for someone available, like maybe Pellegrini. He's a good coach and can build on the work that's been done and has experience of managing big players in a pressurised environment. I also think he has his best work ahead of him. I do like Dunga though, I wonder if he'll be available after he wins the world cup? 🙂

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128027#msg1128027 date=1277766453]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40759.msg1128022#msg1128022 date=1277765527]
Assuming Kenny's not going to happen KopKing, who do you want?
[/quote]

I tell you who I don't want: Roy fucking Hodgson and I know you don't too, deep down. I want a manager that signals an intent that we want to be the best. When I See Roy Hodgson in the frame, I see nothing but mediocrity. That's all his career has achieved. Why all of a sudden at age 62 will be a top European coach?

[/quote]

But we are mediocre! What do we have? History?

We have nothing to show for 20 years that we merit of a top club other than one night in istanbul. One. Night. What do Barca, or Real have to show for themselves? Fuckloads, and thats why they are better and bigger clubs than us. There is no reason to suggest we should sign a better manager, because Roy is just about our level.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40759.msg1128035#msg1128035 date=1277767390]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40759.msg1128027#msg1128027 date=1277766453]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40759.msg1128022#msg1128022 date=1277765527]
Assuming Kenny's not going to happen KopKing, who do you want?
[/quote]

I tell you who I don't want: Roy fucking Hodgson and I know you don't too, deep down. I want a manager that signals an intent that we want to be the best. When I See Roy Hodgson in the frame, I see nothing but mediocrity. That's all his career has achieved. Why all of a sudden at age 62 will be a top European coach?

[/quote]

But we are mediocre! What do we have? History?

We have nothing to show for 20 years that we merit of a top club other than one night in istanbul. One. Night. What do Barca, or Real have to show for themselves? Fuckloads, and thats why they are better and bigger clubs than us. There is no reason to suggest we should sign a better manager, because Roy is just about our level.

[/quote]

It's not our level. We still are one of the top teams in Europe, at one point number 1! We beat both of those teams you mentioned home and away in the Champions League *recently*. I refuse to accept that and you should too.

Of course realistically we are skint. But that does not mean we are not a big club with even bigger aspirations. If we think like that, H&G win in downgrading our club and the longer we refuse to accept *their* vision, they will have no option but to leave sooner rather than later.

We are Liverpool. Skint or not we are still a great club and never forget that.

 

[SummerOnions]

We were a great club. It's going to be our level for the current, and nothing we say or do will change that.