The Suarez/Evra Racism Row
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[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1425651#msg1425651 date=1321263293]
What a shoddy pointed piece of journalism that line is...
[/quote]
Poor the Patrice, luckily for him he has the pillar of sportmanship leading the line for his club. Not to mention his Gaffa.
What a shoddy pointed piece of journalism that line is...
[/quote]
Poor the Patrice, luckily for him he has the pillar of sportmanship leading the line for his club. Not to mention his Gaffa.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47188.msg1424947#msg1424947 date=1321071963]
Why Jodie Foster! Out of all the good broads out there, you would choose Jodie Foster?
I do not approve. You are better off picking someone from the facts thread.
[/quote]
I've just had a thing about her since Silence of the Lambs ... its the accent I think, and the fact that she needs to be "cured"
Why Jodie Foster! Out of all the good broads out there, you would choose Jodie Foster?
I do not approve. You are better off picking someone from the facts thread.
[/quote]
I've just had a thing about her since Silence of the Lambs ... its the accent I think, and the fact that she needs to be "cured"
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=47188.msg1425678#msg1425678 date=1321266144]
FAs racism campaign seems more and more like a joke. 2 arrends the first week of the campaign and nothing has come out of it yet.
[/quote]
It's hardly a joke when it's difficult to prove (in the case of Suarez/Evra). There's no evidence so what can they do?
FAs racism campaign seems more and more like a joke. 2 arrends the first week of the campaign and nothing has come out of it yet.
[/quote]
It's hardly a joke when it's difficult to prove (in the case of Suarez/Evra). There's no evidence so what can they do?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47188.msg1425683#msg1425683 date=1321267371]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=47188.msg1425678#msg1425678 date=1321266144]
FAs racism campaign seems more and more like a joke. 2 arrends the first week of the campaign and nothing has come out of it yet.
[/quote]
It's hardly a joke when it's difficult to prove (in the case of Suarez/Evra). There's no evidence so what can they do?
[/quote]
So....they have been searching for proof for, what is it, 2 weeks? Proof that does not exist?
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=47188.msg1425678#msg1425678 date=1321266144]
FAs racism campaign seems more and more like a joke. 2 arrends the first week of the campaign and nothing has come out of it yet.
[/quote]
It's hardly a joke when it's difficult to prove (in the case of Suarez/Evra). There's no evidence so what can they do?
[/quote]
So....they have been searching for proof for, what is it, 2 weeks? Proof that does not exist?
Tell the FA then.
[quote author=mr_moo link=topic=47188.msg1425745#msg1425745 date=1321277615]
It's a joke this investigation, how long do they need? I need 5 secs to prove luis is innocent.
[/quote]
go on then, how do you know luis is innocent?
It's a joke this investigation, how long do they need? I need 5 secs to prove luis is innocent.
[/quote]
go on then, how do you know luis is innocent?
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425940#msg1425940 date=1321300933]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425941#msg1425941 date=1321300981]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425940#msg1425940 date=1321300933]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[/quote]
hes admitted saying something. Something which he said wasn't racist and that evras team mates call him.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425940#msg1425940 date=1321300933]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[/quote]
hes admitted saying something. Something which he said wasn't racist and that evras team mates call him.
As I understand it he's given some indication, which in itself is fairly vague, that he said "negro" in Spanish, which doesn't have the same connotations as the "n" word in English. That's where the various media discussions about usage of the word in different languages have come from.
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425945#msg1425945 date=1321301150]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425941#msg1425941 date=1321300981]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425940#msg1425940 date=1321300933]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[/quote]
hes admitted saying something. Something which he said wasn't racist and that evras team mates call him.
[/quote]
And now we're into the interpretation of whether or not what he said was racist.
It's gone from - no proof of anything said - to - I said something but it's not racist where I come from.
Which is a very shaky ground to rely on, particularly if that word is "negrito" as reported. Suarez is fucked.
Althouhg that said I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the FA were criticised for not having a specific regulation dealing with racist abuse, so it'll probably fall under a catch all category and he'll get fuck all punishment.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425941#msg1425941 date=1321300981]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1425940#msg1425940 date=1321300933]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425939#msg1425939 date=1321300864]
I'm not so sure. For Suarez to be found guilty, not only will they have to establish that he used a no-no word, they'll also have to establish that he did so knowingly, with the intention of being racially insulting.
[/quote]
So they need to actually find evidence of him saying it then.
Seems to be a massive stumbling block
[/quote]
Not when Suarez has admitted saying it.
[/quote]
hes admitted saying something. Something which he said wasn't racist and that evras team mates call him.
[/quote]
And now we're into the interpretation of whether or not what he said was racist.
It's gone from - no proof of anything said - to - I said something but it's not racist where I come from.
Which is a very shaky ground to rely on, particularly if that word is "negrito" as reported. Suarez is fucked.
Althouhg that said I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the FA were criticised for not having a specific regulation dealing with racist abuse, so it'll probably fall under a catch all category and he'll get fuck all punishment.
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425951#msg1425951 date=1321301699]
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
Since you ask, a guitar piece by a S.American composer entitled "El Negrito" that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black"😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425954#msg1425954 date=1321302010]
Since you ask, a guitar piece with that title that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black"😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[/quote]
So he's admitted to saying something similar to Terry, who is also in a spot of bother.
And if you look at the circumstances of when it was said what conclusion can you draw - it was hardly friendly banter between the two was it ?
Since you ask, a guitar piece with that title that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black"😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[/quote]
So he's admitted to saying something similar to Terry, who is also in a spot of bother.
And if you look at the circumstances of when it was said what conclusion can you draw - it was hardly friendly banter between the two was it ?
He hasn't changed his story. He's said he called him something which his team mates call him every day. I doubt that is 'whiny French twat' somehow. Surely racism has to have context and some malice around it? If its cultural differences how can that be proved as having malicious intent? And why do some people automatically assume if he said a word that may be culturally and racially unacceptable here, yet quite normal in his culture, it was delivered with racial intent
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425952#msg1425952 date=1321301749]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425951#msg1425951 date=1321301699]
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
[/quote]
I was good mates with a Colombian guy and his family used to call him that cause he was darker than the rest of them. Is that racist?
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425951#msg1425951 date=1321301699]
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
[/quote]
I was good mates with a Colombian guy and his family used to call him that cause he was darker than the rest of them. Is that racist?
[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=47188.msg1425957#msg1425957 date=1321302175]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425952#msg1425952 date=1321301749]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425951#msg1425951 date=1321301699]
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
[/quote]
I was good mates with a Colombian guy and his family used to call him that cause he was darker than the rest of them. Is that racist?
[/quote]
That isn't really for me to say
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425952#msg1425952 date=1321301749]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425951#msg1425951 date=1321301699]
If Suarez has changed his story, that looks shifty, but it's still a long way short of establishing that "negrito" is an insult, especially if Evra accuses him of saying more than that and that accusation can't be proven.
[/quote]
What's the first thing you think when you see "negrito" ?
[/quote]
I was good mates with a Colombian guy and his family used to call him that cause he was darker than the rest of them. Is that racist?
[/quote]
That isn't really for me to say
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425955#msg1425955 date=1321302105]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425954#msg1425954 date=1321302010]
Since you ask, a guitar piece with that title that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black"😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[/quote]
So he's admitted to saying something similar to Terry, who is also in a spot of bother.
And if you look at the circumstances of when it was said what conclusion can you draw - it was hardly friendly banter between the two was it ?
[/quote]
I don't see the two cases as similar at all. Terry's admitted saying the words, including "cnut", which the other player involved attributed to him - and even he's put a gloss on it which I suspect the football authorities will find hard to discount, simply for lack of evidence. Nor does the fact that it was a highly charged game establish racist intent by Suarez, not by a long chalk.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425954#msg1425954 date=1321302010]
Since you ask, a guitar piece with that title that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black"😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[/quote]
So he's admitted to saying something similar to Terry, who is also in a spot of bother.
And if you look at the circumstances of when it was said what conclusion can you draw - it was hardly friendly banter between the two was it ?
[/quote]
I don't see the two cases as similar at all. Terry's admitted saying the words, including "cnut", which the other player involved attributed to him - and even he's put a gloss on it which I suspect the football authorities will find hard to discount, simply for lack of evidence. Nor does the fact that it was a highly charged game establish racist intent by Suarez, not by a long chalk.
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