The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Rosco]

So Suarez called him a black something or other in Spanish during a game where they were constantly having a go at each other and you're not in the slightest bit concerned about it ?

 

[Judge Jules]

I am concerned about it because I think it shows poor judgment. I'm not concerned about possible racist intent (a) because it's a far less loaded word in Spanish than it's become in English, (b) because there's bugger all other evidence to demonstrate a racist intention behind it and (c) because Evra's own credibility as a witness has been called into question in the past anyway.

 

[Sunny]

You see the worst in everything Ross.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425966#msg1425966 date=1321302789]
I am concerned about it because I think it shows poor judgment. I'm not concerned about possible racist intent (a) because it's a far less loaded word in Spanish than it's become in English, (b) because there's bugger all other evidence to demonstrate a racist intention behind it and (c) because Evra's own credibility as a witness has been called into question in the past anyway.
[/quote]

I'm not sure where racist intent comes into it, much like Terry's comment. And Evra's credibility isn't an issue if Suarez has admitted to making the comments.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

From my limited Spanish, anything -ito is little. So he called him a little black man. Id agree with JJ that it depends more on the way it was used i.e the words used with it.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425972#msg1425972 date=1321303445]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425966#msg1425966 date=1321302789]
I am concerned about it because I think it shows poor judgment. I'm not concerned about possible racist intent (a) because it's a far less loaded word in Spanish than it's become in English, (b) because there's bugger all other evidence to demonstrate a racist intention behind it and (c) because Evra's own credibility as a witness has been called into question in the past anyway.
[/quote]

I'm not sure where racist intent comes into it, much like Terry's comment. And Evra's credibility isn't an issue if Suarez has admitted to making the comments.
[/quote]

Do you know what he's supposed to have admitted to?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425972#msg1425972 date=1321303445]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425966#msg1425966 date=1321302789]
I am concerned about it because I think it shows poor judgment. I'm not concerned about possible racist intent (a) because it's a far less loaded word in Spanish than it's become in English, (b) because there's bugger all other evidence to demonstrate a racist intention behind it and (c) because Evra's own credibility as a witness has been called into question in the past anyway.
[/quote]

I'm not sure where racist intent comes into it, much like Terry's comment. And Evra's credibility isn't an issue if Suarez has admitted to making the comments.
[/quote]

Of course intent comes into it, especially given Suarez' limited English. It would in the courts and I'd like to see the FA try and get away with adopting a lesser standard. Nor has Suarez admitted to making the specific comments alleged by Evra as I understand it.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1425994#msg1425994 date=1321304835]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1425972#msg1425972 date=1321303445]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425966#msg1425966 date=1321302789]
I am concerned about it because I think it shows poor judgment. I'm not concerned about possible racist intent (a) because it's a far less loaded word in Spanish than it's become in English, (b) because there's bugger all other evidence to demonstrate a racist intention behind it and (c) because Evra's own credibility as a witness has been called into question in the past anyway.
[/quote]

I'm not sure where racist intent comes into it, much like Terry's comment. And Evra's credibility isn't an issue if Suarez has admitted to making the comments.
[/quote]

Do you know what he's supposed to have admitted to?
[/quote]

He said he knows what he said that upset Evra.

I presume he's detailed that in his dealings with the FA. And I presume it's "negrito" given the leaks today.

 

[Atlas]

Terry says it and he should have the book thrown at him , Suarez says it we argue cultural differences.
#justsaying

I don't see how Suarez could have said it in any other way, the context is they fricking hate each other and were bitchin at each other all game..Suarez was hardly saying it in a friendly way.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1426000#msg1426000 date=1321305136]
Terry says it and he should have the book thrown at him , Suarez says it we argue cultural differences.
#justsaying

I don't see how Suarez could have said it in any other way, the context is they fricking hate each other and were bitchin at each other all game..Suarez was hardly saying it in a friendly way.
[/quote]

exactly.

 

[gene hughes]

I agree with Rosco, this may not end well.

 

[Hansern]

So Negrito can mean mate or pal, and you think he's in the shittes? Sounds like absolutly nothing will happen imho, and rightly so.

 

[Jack D Rips]

If I put " mi amigo negrito " into a translator, I get " my bold friend "

 

[Rosco]

Another translator has "negrito" as:

n. black child

adj. black, of the color black; of or pertaining to an ethnic group having brown to black skin and hair; dark; without light; (derogatory in modern usage) negro (Anthropology), dark-skinned, black-skinned, of Black and dark-skinned African races

n. member of an ethnic group having brown to black skin and hair; African American; black, color black

 

[Gary25]

Obviously desperate for nothing to come of this, but if the worst came to the worst and Suarez was found guilty of racism...how long would he be banned for approx?

 

[Sunny]

Negro:

However, in Spanish-speaking countries such as Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay where there are few people of African origin and appearance, negro (negra for females) is commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[13] or people in general independent of skin color. In Venezuela the word negro is similarly used, despite its large African descent population

It's not about literal translation, it's about the intent of the word

 

[Rosco]

And is Evra a partner or close friend of Suarez ?

 

[Y1]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1425954#msg1425954 date=1321302010]
Since you ask, a guitar piece by a S.American composer entitled "El Negrito" that I used to play. My Spanish isn't great but I certainly wouldn't suspect it was their version of the "n" word. "Negro" (which simply means "black&quot😉 and its derivatives such as "negrito" are simply too common for that in Spanish usage.
[/quote]

There is a tribe by the name of negritos in Malaysia

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1426040#msg1426040 date=1321308849]
And is Evra a partner or close friend of Suarez ?
[/quote]

Ross you're trying to pick holes that aren't there. It's a colloquial word. If I call someone 'mate' it doesn't mean they're actually a mate of mine. God help anyone on trial if you ever become a judge

 

[gene hughes]

If only Evra was a member of that tribe, this whole thing could be settled in 5 seconds.

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1426037#msg1426037 date=1321308614]
Negro:

However, in Spanish-speaking countries such as Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay where there are few people of African origin and appearance, negro (negra for females) is commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[13] or people in general independent of skin color. In Venezuela the word negro is similarly used, despite its large African descent population

It's not about literal translation, it's about the intent of the word
[/quote]

That makes me feel a bit better I have to say.

Stop over-reacting Rosco.

 

[Rosco]

Maybe me and Asim need to calm down.

or the rest of you need to go back and look at the interactions between the players.

 

[Sunny]

What interactions would they be Ross? The ones that go on in loads of fucking games? And while we debate Suarez and Terry that cunt who SPAT is getting little media airtime. I wonder why that is?

 

[Rosco]

Terry has gotten plenty.

Suarez would have gotten less if he hadn't opened his gob back in Uruguay.

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1426047#msg1426047 date=1321309497]
Maybe me and Asim need to calm down.
[/quote]

Yea, Rosco. Maybe Asim needs to calm down.

For God's sake man, listen to yourself!!

 

[Sunny]

Have you ever thought that Suarez and Evra have both told the truth in this? And it may be nothing other than cultural misunderstanding?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1426001#msg1426001 date=1321305201]
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1426000#msg1426000 date=1321305136]
Terry says it and he should have the book thrown at him , Suarez says it we argue cultural differences.
#justsaying

I don't see how Suarez could have said it in any other way, the context is they fricking hate each other and were bitchin at each other all game..Suarez was hardly saying it in a friendly way.
[/quote]

exactly.
[/quote]

Not "exactly" at all. Terry (a) has form and (b) is a native English speaker. Context is no kind of proof.

Sunny's last post is spot on BTW.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1426051#msg1426051 date=1321310071]
Have you ever thought that Suarez and Evra have both told the truth in this? And it may be nothing other than cultural misunderstanding?


[/quote]

Yeah.

I think it's a painfully weak excuse.

 

[Sunny]

You would though.

 

[gene hughes]

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but I've started to get long white hairs on my ear lobes. Anyone else have this? How do you deal with it?