The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Molbystwin]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451236#msg1451236 date=1325102671]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1451231#msg1451231 date=1325101740]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451225#msg1451225 date=1325100746]
I fail to see that Suarez would happily admit to using a word had he known it was considered racial abuse. He could merely have denied it and waited for the FA to provide evidence.

We all know this. Hanging him out to dry to prove your anti-racist credentials is muddled thinking and feeble.

Even more worrying is the failure to see that this episode declares Suarez racist. This business of saying that he's not considered racist but has used racist abuse is absurd and cowardly. The racism is implied.

He must be allowed to clear his name and I suspect that will involve legal action after exhausting the FA's procedures. Then the FA will have to prove his intent and that will be difficult as there is distinct doubt about the terms use in different language.
[/quote]

My anti racist credentials?? WTF....

I'm not saying we should hang anyone out to dry at all, im saying that Suarez should make his own defence in public explain that what was said was not thrown as heavily as it was caught apologise to Evra and move on. I would also suggest that if he had done that straight away we would not all be eating the enormous shit sandwich that right now we seem intent on garnishing.

Suarez has been subjected to abuse from opposition fans commentators and press men alike and now the FA have seen fit to make an example of him, Im right behind him as a player and a man, i just think it would be better for him and for the club and for the game as a whole if he came out and made a well worded apology.

Then we can let the rest of the cunts point the finger at themselves safe in the knowledge that even though they haven't we've done everything the way it should be done.
[/quote]
I wasn't replying to you individually as it happens but I'm not surprised; it's a sensitive subject.

Suarez was merely asked what was said. He told them,obviously unaware of the implications. His explanation has been ignored (which it wouldn't be in court).
Do you honestly believe that to be true? If so then he was shockingly badly advisedEvra was brought in several times and despite admitting to abusing Suarez he has not been charged.
? That would indeed put a very different slant on things and if true would put the FA in all kinds of shit.... Did Evra admit it? The first i heard of his possibly abusing Suarez came the day after the judgement.... lets see.... IF true then Suarez will have plenty of grounds to claim against the FA
Sanction has not been applied equally and a guilty verdict given where there is obvious doubt, again this will be taken into account in court.
[/quote]

 

[jexykrodic]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1451240#msg1451240 date=1325103198]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451236#msg1451236 date=1325102671]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1451231#msg1451231 date=1325101740]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451225#msg1451225 date=1325100746]
I fail to see that Suarez would happily admit to using a word had he known it was considered racial abuse. He could merely have denied it and waited for the FA to provide evidence.

We all know this. Hanging him out to dry to prove your anti-racist credentials is muddled thinking and feeble.

Even more worrying is the failure to see that this episode declares Suarez racist. This business of saying that he's not considered racist but has used racist abuse is absurd and cowardly. The racism is implied.

He must be allowed to clear his name and I suspect that will involve legal action after exhausting the FA's procedures. Then the FA will have to prove his intent and that will be difficult as there is distinct doubt about the terms use in different language.
[/quote]

My anti racist credentials?? WTF....

I'm not saying we should hang anyone out to dry at all, im saying that Suarez should make his own defence in public explain that what was said was not thrown as heavily as it was caught apologise to Evra and move on. I would also suggest that if he had done that straight away we would not all be eating the enormous shit sandwich that right now we seem intent on garnishing.

Suarez has been subjected to abuse from opposition fans commentators and press men alike and now the FA have seen fit to make an example of him, Im right behind him as a player and a man, i just think it would be better for him and for the club and for the game as a whole if he came out and made a well worded apology.

Then we can let the rest of the cunts point the finger at themselves safe in the knowledge that even though they haven't we've done everything the way it should be done.
[/quote]
I wasn't replying to you individually as it happens but I'm not surprised; it's a sensitive subject.

Suarez was merely asked what was said. He told them,obviously unaware of the implications. His explanation has been ignored (which it wouldn't be in court).
Do you honestly believe that to be true? Well, he's either massively stupid or really wasn't aware (the terms not abuse in his native tongue).If so then he was shockingly badly advisedEvra was brought in several times and despite admitting to abusing Suarez he has not been charged.
? That would indeed put a very different slant on things and if true would put the FA in all kinds of shit.... Did Evra admit it? Yes, during his interviews.The first i heard of his possibly abusing Suarez came the day after the judgement.... lets see.... IF true then Suarez will have plenty of grounds to claim against the FA
Sanction has not been applied equally and a guilty verdict given where there is obvious doubt, again this will be taken into account in court.
[/quote]
[/quote]

 

[jexykrodic]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451239#msg1451239 date=1325103107]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451238#msg1451238 date=1325102961]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451234#msg1451234 date=1325101824]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451232#msg1451232 date=1325101766]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451229#msg1451229 date=1325101463]
Both the FA and United/Evra both state their belief that Luis isn't racist.

And the implication you derive from that is the exact opposite of what they're saying ?
[/quote]

Luis stated the belief that the word he used isn't racist abuse but you derive the exact opposite of what he's saying?


[/quote]

No the FA panel did.
[/quote]

You have every right to support that FA and it's panel. An attempt to divert from the obvious implication is er, muddled thinking and feeble.
[/quote]

I think it takes more than one incident of this kind to declare someone a racist, I think it might be because I've got some perspective or something.

Actions are a much better indicator than words, anybody could do similar to Luis in a heated match.
[/quote]

A declaration wasn't needed; it is implied.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451217#msg1451217 date=1325099750]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48021.msg1451206#msg1451206 date=1325097503]
It is not a cultural/linguistic defense. It's actually a fact....

Suarez is not a racist. Nor did he use racist language, or racist abuse or anything of the kind. Saying "He's not a racist, but he used a racist word" might sound like you are being charitable towards him and everything, but it's a lie.
[/quote]

It's amazing how you can, earlier in this thread see the difficulty with the actual charges -then come out with this.
[/quote]

Ross - are all those players racists? You don't think he's a racist (as you said earlier - cant' remember which thread anymore) - and unless you think the term is racist no matter where it's said (Like that lovely Gordon Taylor chap), then the 'cultural insensitivity' line is surely one you can agree with?

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1451220#msg1451220 date=1325100210]


To me if Suarez did not report being called a sudaka or panchito or whatever the fuck he was called the only possible reason i can see him for him not to do that is that he KNOWS he was on a wind up using the word Negrito and couldnt offer the "neutral" language defence whilst simultaneously accusing Evra or racially abusing him. Thats just what it is no more and no less....
[/quote]

Or he didn't hear it (which is what he said - the only way we know the term was used was Evra said he used it FIRST before the 'porque negrito?') ... It's like Evra's own teammates saying they didn't hear a term that was said 10 times.

 

[monsieurdantes]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451217#msg1451217 date=1325099750]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48021.msg1451206#msg1451206 date=1325097503]
It is not a cultural/linguistic defense. It's actually a fact....

Suarez is not a racist. Nor did he use racist language, or racist abuse or anything of the kind. Saying "He's not a racist, but he used a racist word" might sound like you are being charitable towards him and everything, but it's a lie.
[/quote]

It's amazing how you can, earlier in this thread see the difficulty with the actual charges -then come out with this.
[/quote]

That's a clever observation. We both know exactly what the FA were doing when they opted for those charges, and we both knew he was guilty as charged from the outset. But guilty of what exactly? (1) insulting Evra, and (2) making reference to his colour.

(1) is fair enough, and it should lead to a fine at most or else you'd have no players left. (2) was not an insult, a slur, had no negative connotations. It was the equivalent of charging Suarez for saying the sky is blue. Just a bullshit charge to appease people. So the fact that the cunts came out with an 8 match ban, it means the FA have now changed their tune and think (2) constituted racial abuse. Which is an outright fucking lie. And it is also a separate charge that you need to prove. You can't just fucking presume it based on the wording of (2). It doesn't work like that. They charged him with making reference to colour, a pussy charge to get the guilty verdict. Well then you should also dish out a pussy punishment which reflects the charge. Doubling the fine for example as it suggests in the rules. But to come up with a ban, no chance. They're fucking taking the piss.

In their statement, they should have made it clear that Suarez was not a racist AND he did not use any racist term. They only conceded the former, and that was in private during the hearing probably to cover themselves. Tough shit they didn't go far enough. Now they can fucking well concede the former in a judicial review and then pay out millions of dollars to Mr Henry and Mr Suarez.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451239#msg1451239 date=1325103107]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451238#msg1451238 date=1325102961]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451234#msg1451234 date=1325101824]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48021.msg1451232#msg1451232 date=1325101766]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48021.msg1451229#msg1451229 date=1325101463]
Both the FA and United/Evra both state their belief that Luis isn't racist.

And the implication you derive from that is the exact opposite of what they're saying ?
[/quote]

Luis stated the belief that the word he used isn't racist abuse but you derive the exact opposite of what he's saying?


[/quote]

No the FA panel did.
[/quote]

You have every right to support that FA and it's panel. An attempt to divert from the obvious implication is er, muddled thinking and feeble.
[/quote]

I think it takes more than one incident of this kind to declare someone a racist, I think it might be because I've got some perspective or something.
[/quote]

So Ross, is the 8 game ban, for a player the FA and Evra said isn't racist, showing that they DO think he's racist (actions speak louder than words)? Unless they reduce this to 3 games, it would be the most severe punishment for a player for this form of abuse ... and that speaks bloody loudly.

 

[ElMalarkey]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I've given this case a bit of thought. Probably more than I should, but that's another matter. As a Uruguayan, Liverpool fan, and someone who's been following Suarez since we celebrated him getting the chance to leave Nacional for Europe, for Groningen... it's a big deal. He's done well for himself and his teams, and like it or not, he's become a representative of our country. When he joined Liverpool I was thrilled. A screw loose, but a brilliant player.

I have some big issues with FA judgment because the notion that Spanish can be judged by English is absurd. And xenophobic. I don't buy that because he lived in Europe "he should know better," whatever the fuck that means. Or that because he plays in England Luis has to think like a kid named Neville. The responses to the judgment from people who think the ban was absolutely the "right message" are appalling. I'm sure it is reinforcing the current thinking of Latin American players: if you play in Europe, which you must for your career, you'd rather play in Spain or Italy. It's been the case for a long time, and this judgment, and the response to it, is the reason why.

Reading stuff on this forum made me furious at the FA. Speaking with some other Uruguayans, less so. They're not outraged at his ban, just thought it was exaggerated. What they say, and I agree, is that Suarez probably said "negro" or somesuch. It's not a derogatory term, but he didn't call Evra that because it's the equivalent of "mate." As I've argued at first. He called him that because it's the equivalent of "mate" AND Evra is black. It's not a racist term, but he didn't say "flaco." And within FA rules they're right to see that as an offense.

I still remain furious about the response and the FA's drastic measure. We'll have to wait on the ruling to hear more of the evidence and their reasoning for the ban. I think both will be insufficient, and I suspect their reasoning will be an infantile yet patronising view of Spanish and Suarez.

And we're all gonna throw shit at the FA. And that's fine, merited even. But we're kidding ourselves if we think Suarez is innocent. I don't think he was trying to wind up Evra, but he made a mistake with his words. And it reflects badly on him. And it reflects badly that for the last 3 months he hasn't thought better of it. And it reflects badly on Liverpool to have not had a professional put out the fire a week into the allegations. To sit Suarez down, hear his take on the case, and to realize that presenting the "culturally appropriate" defense to the FA was poor business. To have told the kid "you didn't mean to, but you did wrong and if you drag this out we're fucked" and handed him a phone with Evra on the line. Apology. Then drafted a public apology. We get a ban, hopefully shorter than 8 games, end of story.

But Suarez hasn't and Liverpool hasn't. And I can understand. Because the Evra incident got conflated with all the other shit people have thrown at Suarez and Liverpool throughout the season. That he dives, that he's a cheat, that they complain about every decision, etc. Which if we're being honest, are allegations that are not without merit but are clearly being used to justify refs fucking us over. And we wanted to protect our best player, who can barely speak English.

Now to bring this back to football, the reason we give a shit about any of this... I think if we had a better team we would have done right by Suarez and had that chat. Played it wisely. Gotten our shorter ban, held our head up high. But we were scared for our lives because it's pretty fucking obvious we're dire without Suarez. And it was easier to blame the refs as we have all year (even now with Bellamy) or the FA (where's our rest before playing City?) or United. Not that those points aren't valid. We watched the games, we know we have a point. But not with the Suarez/Evra thing. We fucked up.

And again to the football... this thing is dragging the team down. We've seen it the last two games. Against the bottom, the very bottom, teams. Out-played by teams whose morale should be way fucking less than ours.

So we can keep sinking or be honest:
United bamboozled Liverpool.
Suarez is definitively not a role-model.
We don't ditch him, because we can still believe that he's a good kid that made a mistake.

But we sit him down and say you have our support but we're moving on. We presented our case, and it didn't stick. And if he throws a hissy fit (like he did with Ajax because they didn't "fully support" him after he snacked on a player's shoulder!) then fuck him. I like Suarez; he's incredible, and when he doesn't play I'm less confident about the team. But let's call it as it is. He messed up. Dragging this thing out is not helping him or the team. He's looked a shadow of himself and the team is off. And we sound like fucking idiots debating semantics, conspiracy theory, things as they stand.

I'd rather sound like a fucking idiot by insisting we'll get 4th this year.

Which we will, brothers.

 

[SummerOnions]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I like your well-reasoned approach, there aren't many of them.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Excellent post ElMalarkey, but I don't agree with your conclusions. Was the outcome of the hearing appropriate or not? If (as you appear to) you agree with most of us that it wasn't, simply accepting it would resolve nothing. Nada. Suarez would be even more disenchanted because the club hadn't stood by him, while we would have issued a blank cheque to the FA to do what they like to us (remember also, for example, the way they made an example of Mascherano AND OF NO-ONE ELSE, on a bullsh!t charge too, over the "Respect" campaign) and, worst of all, to Ferguson in similar terms.

I'm afraid I don't recognise the picture you paint in the later part of your post about a player and a club overshadowed by all this. There have only been - what? - two games since the decision, and neither the player nor the team seem to me to have suffered any real dip in form. On the other hand, I'd lay a sizeable sum that the team and particularly Suarez himself WOULD wilt in the way you describe if we gave in now to this witchhunt, and that Suarez would ultimately leave early.

Sometimes doing nothing is the greatest risk of all.

 

[Molbystwin]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48021.msg1451262#msg1451262 date=1325107039]
Excellent post ElMalarkey, but I don't agree with your conclusions. Was the outcome of the hearing appropriate or not? If (as you appear to) you agree with most of us that it wasn't, simply accepting it would resolve nothing. Nada. Suarez would be even more disenchanted because the club hadn't stood by him, while we would have issued a blank cheque to the FA to do what they like to us (remember also, for example, the way they made an example of Mascherano AND OF NO-ONE ELSE, on a bullsh!t charge too, over the "Respect" campaign) and, worst of all, to Ferguson in similar terms.

I'm afraid I don't recognise the picture you paint in the later part of your post about a player and a club overshadowed by all this. There have only been - what? - two games since the decision, and neither the player nor the team seem to me to have suffered any real dip in form. On the other hand, I'd lay a sizeable sum that the team and particularly Suarez himself WOULD wilt in the way you describe if we gave in now to this witchhunt, and that Suarez would ultimately leave early.

Sometimes doing nothing is the greatest risk of all.
[/quote]

I'm almost with you there Jules.... In asking that Suarez makes an apology it doesnt mean that i'm not furious with the FA, they have been totally out of order. Even if we ignore the way Suarez has been treated you just need to look at some of the fucking awful refereeing we've been getting recently, 4 cards for bellamy!! fuck I think maybe he's deserved 1.... I just think we should have been far more calm and considered in response.

But if we are going down this road then lest go the whole fucking hog, maybe we should do a Fergie and start pulling the plug on some of these press cunts and pointing out that we are getting a round kicking time after time with no protection from the FA. Loads of people had a major go at Rafa for his "rant", trouble is it was bang on then and it still is..... we get fucked over a barrell while they dont.

 

[ElMalarkey]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Fair point JudgeJules. To be clear, I don't think we abandon Suarez. I object to the statement realized after the ruling, the t-shirts, the general response afterwards. The use of the word "witch-hunt." 🙂 I certainly felt the need for big words when they released the decision, and saw the FA as trying to "crucify" Suarez. Think maybe now we should tone down that kind of talk. You can strongly support a player without putting on a circus? I leave that as a question.

I think we all agree that without the FA release of documents we're at a standstill. There might be more evidence that throws the case definitely to the side that Suarez deserves a lengthy ban. Say if he does consent to calling Evra some form of "negro" more than once, especially after perceiving the word offends Evra by that word... If it does however consist entirely of the mentioned "por que negro" comment, and solely that incident... I'm not too clear on the precedents for this type of ruling in the FA. It seems to me the FA is blazing new ground. And as cynical as I am about the FA's newfound motivation to stamp out racism (mainly a proxy attack on Blatter's regime), we're left to judge them by future decisions on similar cases.

My issue with the FA is that if their intention is to confront racism in the game, the best path to that is by allowing for complexity and dialogue. The "we're not saying Suarez is a racist" bit is bullshit. It's legal protection. They should come out and say: we can see how it is a miscommunication/mistake by Suarez, but we're setting a precedent. If that's the case, the argument is for the next time, the next incident that comes around.

Maybe I'm trying to have it both ways. That 1. The ban seems excessive/inappropriate for what could be a mistake with no malice intended. And 2. it could be appropriate if from now on FA is really going to come down hard on the slightest racist incident in the game.

Part of my outrage with the FA is the sense I'm making a better/more coherent argument for the ban than they will themselves, and the fact that presenting such a big (precedent making) ban without an explanation/written conclusion is fucking ridiculous. It only serves to vilify Suarez in the mean-time, dumb down debate, and ultimately does nothing for the purpose of confronting racism in the game. Maybe they wanted to hear what people thought of it, before deciding to put pen to paper... which isn't very honorable.

Am I exaggerating about the last two games? Possibly. But I think there was a dip in quality.

 

[gene hughes]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Suarez has been falsely accused of being a top quality striker and I for one am glad that the club is standing by him so he can prove he's second rate. He's been made a scapegoat by the media who needed to identify a star player for Liverpool during Gerrard's long absence (and after Torres's departure) and it's just not fair. The fact that he's South American and has a 'z' in his name just makes it easier for them to pick on him. He's a highly skilled player who can change games but most of the time he can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. Just because the media insist on portraying him as one of the world's best strikers that doesn't mean the club or us fans have to lie down and accept it.

 

[SummerOnions]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Racist.

 

[Shadey]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=48021.msg1451276#msg1451276 date=1325110730]
Racist.
[/quote] You've won a prize it's the 10,000th time the word 'racist' has been mentioned in the 'suarez/evra thread. you can collect your prize in the new year..

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

This thread is stupid.
Really stupid.

 

[Halmeister]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I'm inclined to agree now. Neither side is going to back down.

It's a mess, the whole situation is a mess. All parties concerned.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

And somewhere in Manchester there is an old rednosed whiskeyfaced cunt practicing his Dr.Evil laugh.

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Jesus wept.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451288#msg1451288 date=1325113224]
Jesus wept.
[/quote]

So you dont think he's enjoying watching this then?

 

[SummerOnions]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451279#msg1451279 date=1325111584]
This thread is stupid.
Really stupid.
[/quote]

I think we should merge this with the random picture thread to create a massive yin yang effect.

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1451289#msg1451289 date=1325113295]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451288#msg1451288 date=1325113224]
Jesus wept.
[/quote]

So you dont think he's enjoying watching this then?
[/quote]I couldnt care less.

A footballer made a remark to another footballer and because in that remark he used a term that referenced his colour he has been given a hefty ban.
If that means players in future do not refer to another players colour then thats a good thing.

The player who he made the remark to doesnt think he is racist.
The people who have reprimanded him dont think hes racist.

But i bet he wishes he hadnt made the remark.
And as I said earlier hes shit in front of goal so im not arsed either way.
I reckon we can draw 0-0 or 1-1 or lose to shite teams without him to be honest.

 

[Fabio]

Re: Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=48021.msg1#msg1 date=1325112162]
I'm inclined to agree now. Neither side is going to back down.

It's a mess, the whole situation is a mess. All parties concerned.
[/quote]

Pretty sure I said this before the thread broke the internet

 

[SummerOnions]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451299#msg1451299 date=1325113940]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1451289#msg1451289 date=1325113295]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451288#msg1451288 date=1325113224]
Jesus wept.
[/quote]

So you dont think he's enjoying watching this then?
[/quote]I couldnt care less.

A footballer made a remark to another footballer and because in that remark he used a term that referenced his colour he has been given a hefty ban.
If that means players in future do not refer to another players colour then thats a good thing.

The player who he made the remark to doesnt think he is racist.
The people who have reprimanded him dont think hes racist.

But i bet he wishes he hadnt made the remark.
And as I said earlier hes shit in front of goal so im not arsed either way.
I reckon we can draw 0-0 or 1-1 or lose to shite teams without him to be honest.
[/quote]

The way it's going he won't get banned til February (if he does, etc)

By this time, Andy Carroll and Jonjo will be bumming teams silly and scoring several apiece. We've got nothing to worry about.

 

[Hansern]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451299#msg1451299 date=1325113940]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1451289#msg1451289 date=1325113295]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451288#msg1451288 date=1325113224]
Jesus wept.
[/quote]

So you dont think he's enjoying watching this then?
[/quote]I couldnt care less.

A footballer made a remark to another footballer and because in that remark he used a term that referenced his colour he has been given a hefty ban.
If that means players in future do not refer to another players colour then thats a good thing.

The player who he made the remark to doesnt think he is racist.
The people who have reprimanded him dont think hes racist.

But i bet he wishes he hadnt made the remark.
And as I said earlier hes shit in front of goal so im not arsed either way.
I reckon we can draw 0-0 or 1-1 or lose to shite teams without him to be honest.
[/quote]

I dont think its that cut and dry, but I can see why this thread is going around in circles. Reading both sides arguments for the last 26 pages and we're still on the same points but with different examples.

 

[Halmeister]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

The ban would imply that the FA believe he is racist though, even if they haven't said it themselves. Cue the media and divvys jumping on the bandwagon labelling him a racist, wrongly, championing the FA who saw this as a perfect opportunity to get one over Blatter. I think they'll get away with it, too, despite it being so obvious. And I don't blame them particularly, they had to be seen to be tough on perceived racism - and that's what it has been reported as. Not the cultural/lingusitic differences. He was always going to be found guilty from the outset.

I just hope the FA get their comeuppance and Suarez doesn't get hounded out of the country.

 

[refugee]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451279#msg1451279 date=1325111584]
This thread is stupid.
Really stupid.
[/quote]

Of course it is.

We have known racists like John Barnes telling us that the outcry against Suarez is a witch hunt and we have renowned anti racism campaigners like Paul McGrath (the man who once publicly defended Ron Atkinson over the Desailly incident) criticising Glen Johnson for supporting his team-mate.

Then we have other posters telling us how stupid the thread is, then continuing to argue about it in later posts.

And finally we have other posters complicating the matter further by bringing up entirely separate arguments about how overrated the player is (there may be a basis for a debate over that, but should people really be making that point in a "stupid" thread).

If your fed up with the thread stop posting in it. It's quite simple (unlike the thread topic which is clearly more complex)

 

[singlerider]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Basically it's fucking bollocks, because had it been an English player such as Rooney, Beckham or Lampard then fuck all would have been made of it, and the fact that they've tried to downplay Terry calling Anton Ferdinand a black cunt, which is far less ambiguous and leaves virtually nothing to debate just goes to prove that.

It's fucking bollocks and the FA have essentially undermined the whole anti-racism campaign by demonstrating that if you're English and a media darling then you'll be looked after.

Suarez, because of who he is and his previous (and because he's not English) has been hung out to dry.

It's a load of shite

 

[Y1]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

It is plain and simple for me - we are justifiably angry because of injustice (incredibly over the board judgement) to an innocent man. There are mitigating evidences which the panel did not consider.

 

[Oncy]

Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=refugee link=topic=48021.msg1451310#msg1451310 date=1325116507]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=48021.msg1451279#msg1451279 date=1325111584]
This thread is stupid.
Really stupid.
[/quote]

Of course it is.

We have known racists like John Barnes telling us that the outcry against Suarez is a witch hunt and we have renowned anti racism campaigners like Paul McGrath (the man who once publicly defended Ron Atkinson over the Desailly incident) criticising Glen Johnson for supporting his team-mate.

Then we have other posters telling us how stupid the thread is, then continuing to argue about it in later posts.

And finally we have other posters complicating the matter further by bringing up entirely separate arguments about how overrated the player is (there may be a basis for a debate over that, but should people really be making that point in a "stupid" thread).

If your fed up with the thread stop posting in it. It's quite simple (unlike the thread topic which is clearly more complex)
[/quote]Complicating the matter!
Hahahaha.
Yes how complex this all is.
How difficult it is to READ and also form an opinion AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Heaven forbid a thread have more than one subject matter in it. What would we all do.