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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48021.msg1450434#msg1450434 date=1324553744]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450429#msg1450429 date=1324553405]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48021.msg1450416#msg1450416 date=1324552862]
It's not often I wished Neil worked for the FA, but today is one of those days.
[/quote]

what's that supposed to mean?
the truth is when I first heard suarez had made a racial slur towards evra I was prepared to stop supporting the player. it turns out the 'alleged' (we don't know the full facts) was negreto (or whatever the fuck that is) and isn't meant in a derogatory way so I can let it slide.

as for big ron, the reason I say he isn't racist is because of the black players he purchased for his team at a time when there were hardly any black players in england and also the black players who jumped to his defense.
[/quote]

You've answered your own question.
[/quote]

I thought you were being sarcastic
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48021.msg1450439#msg1450439 date=1324553865]
Atkinson is indeed a silly racist.
[/quote]

based on what? saying n****r?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]

99% of people in his generation said it or somethi ng like it, Hartley had Golliwogs on JamJars FFS, and white people used to black up to play in the Black and White Minstrals.

Just go back to 'Love thy neighbour' the hit comedy tv show from the 70's, it can't even be repeated on tv now because its considered so offensive!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]


it's difficult to say definitely but you judge (or at least I do) people by their actions. actions speak louder than words and what ron did for black people at a time when hardly any were being utilised speaks volumes, the black players who leapt to his defense despite the racial sure and sacking also speaks volumes.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450433#msg1450433 date=1324553667]
Robin:

I was saying to Oncy over text yesterday the thing wih race and racism is things are beer clear cut, like with anyone human things arw subjective, and constantly evolving, even within an individual.

We all know people, particularly older relatives who will use terms that are unacceptable, but we *know* them well enough to know the issue is with language as opposed to what they feel.

However, for the most part, we can't ever delve into what's in someone else's heart or mind, we can only judge man by actions and speech, so that's what we have to go on. Usually one's actions and what they say are a good indicator of what try feel and who they are.

Like I say it's not clear cut, you might have examples of someone who isn't considered on speech and says all kinds of mad things and yet has the purest of hearts or the other way round, someone who's so considered in what they say but their intentions are the worst imaginable, like I said, we're taking about humans so it's hugely subjective.

I was thinking about this yesterday, of I had an argument with someone at work, let's say someone I didn't like to begin with, an in the midst of the argument that person called me a
p***, would I just let it slide?


I really resent playing the role of the angry ethnic, ideally I want to be able to challenge things in a measured and constructive way, but it's not always easy when you're talking about something so emotive and personal.

Problem on the forum is I end up arguing against an extreme point and therefore have to represent the opposite view in its extreme, things become very polarised and arw not necessarily reflective of what I think.
[/quote]



I find it emotive too. I'm white, mostly Irish descent, but there's a degree of latino in me, some people even pick up on the South American bit. Some, mostly Pakistani or Arab people pick up on the Jewish part, but not everybody does... mostly northern Europeans notice that I am not entirely northern European, often they are surprised when they realise I have blue eyes, however, other people would think this bonkers and pick up on the Scandinavian (Norwegian great grandmother) bit. Anyway, there have been a number of occasions where I have been given flack for it, predominantly the Jewish bit, when I lived in the south of England, and it is upsetting. The idea that people would be against you just because of your family tree, as it were, when they have no idea what you are like yourself, is scary, and it makes you question who else is thinking it, and if it has any meaning.


Then again, at the same time, I am very interested in people's heritage (never to make judgements about them as people) and am interested in talking about it if it's appropriate, and to some people even the idea that it could be a subject for discussion is too risque to contemplate.


PS I don't know what you mean by "beer clear cut"
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450448#msg1450448 date=1324554578]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]


it's difficult to say definitely but you judge (or at least I do) people by their actions. actions speak louder than words and what ron did for black people at a time when hardly any were being utilised speaks volumes, the black players who leapt to his defense despite the racial sure and sacking also speaks volumes.
[/quote]


How do you feel about somebody that is nice as pie to your face, but once everybody remaining is "white" he starts mouthing off about "darkies" etc?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450448#msg1450448 date=1324554578]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]


it's difficult to say definitely but you judge (or at least I do) people by their actions. actions speak louder than words and what ron did for black people at a time when hardly any were being utilised speaks volumes, the black players who leapt to his defense despite the racial sure and sacking also speaks volumes.
[/quote]

I agree that it can be subjective, like I've said in that longer post. But what 'he done for black players', he played black players because they were good and helped him achieve his career goals. I don't want to use ridiculous disproportionate examples, but a lot of white men have used black men to work for them, it's wasn't an altruistic gesture
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450454#msg1450454 date=1324554757]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450448#msg1450448 date=1324554578]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]


it's difficult to say definitely but you judge (or at least I do) people by their actions. actions speak louder than words and what ron did for black people at a time when hardly any were being utilised speaks volumes, the black players who leapt to his defense despite the racial sure and sacking also speaks volumes.
[/quote]

I agree that it can be subjective, like I've said in that longer post. But what 'he done for black players', he played black players because they were good and helped him achieve his career goals. I don't want to use ridiculous disproportionate examples, but a lot of white men have used black men to work for them, it's wasn't an altruistic gesture
[/quote]

Nail head.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450454#msg1450454 date=1324554757]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450448#msg1450448 date=1324554578]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450445#msg1450445 date=1324554369]
Do you not think that by him using that word it's indicative of how he thinks, Neil?
[/quote]


it's difficult to say definitely but you judge (or at least I do) people by their actions. actions speak louder than words and what ron did for black people at a time when hardly any were being utilised speaks volumes, the black players who leapt to his defense despite the racial sure and sacking also speaks volumes.
[/quote]

I agree that it can be subjective, like I've said in that longer post. But what 'he done for black players', he played black players because they were good and helped him achieve his career goals. I don't want to use ridiculous disproportionate examples, but a lot of white men have used black men to work for them, it's wasn't an altruistic gesture
[/quote]

true but how many of those black workers would leap to the defense of their white employers?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

for our younger members the reason coloured is a bit iffy is that it has connotations with apartheid era south africa
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=tony link=topic=48021.msg1450461#msg1450461 date=1324554971]
for our younger members the reason coloured is a bit iffy is that it has connotations with apartheid era south africa
[/quote]

I think thats for out Older members 😉

Twitter it to Hansen ...
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=tony link=topic=48021.msg1450461#msg1450461 date=1324554971]
for our younger members the reason coloured is a bit iffy is that it has connotations with apartheid era south africa
[/quote]

'Coloured' doesn't mean black people in South Africa though does it?

Coloureds are basically not white or black in South Africa, aren’t they?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Robin, I think I've said on here before, I find racial politics fascinating, I always have, I specialised in post colonial lit at Uni and have always continued on reading/learning about race and society (one of the reasons Im so fascinated by Ballotellu at the mo), and like you I love hearing about people's heritage, but can't fathom how people can see it as indicative of status or a calibre of an individual. I do wonder if I'd be as fascinated by it all of I wasnt brown myself, but it's impossible to think in any other terms because you're race, gender, generation is so engrained in your make up I don't know who I'd be if I wasn't me! What a weird thing to think!

Anyway I'd like to think I'd care as much even if I wasn't brown, racism full stop offends me and I make it known, the number of times I've been in all non-white company when someone's said something off and can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.

Btw Are you familiar with Akala? You'd love him, Oncy would too actually, I think
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450467#msg1450467 date=1324555313]
can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.


[/quote]

wait! you're not white?!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450471#msg1450471 date=1324555445]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450467#msg1450467 date=1324555313]
can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.


[/quote]

wait! you're not white?!
[/quote]

Referring to someones colour can get you in trouble ...

Shit I just realised I said colour, but don't have a fucking clue what I should have said? skin tone???
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1450472#msg1450472 date=1324555496]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450471#msg1450471 date=1324555445]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450467#msg1450467 date=1324555313]
can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.


[/quote]

wait! you're not white?!
[/quote]

Referring to someones colour can get you in trouble ...

Shit I just realised I said colour, but don't have a fucking clue what I should have said? skin tone???
[/quote]

ha ha
use the word 'caucasian' as not to cause offence. what non offensive word can you use for black people that isn't a colour?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450475#msg1450475 date=1324555775]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1450472#msg1450472 date=1324555496]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450471#msg1450471 date=1324555445]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450467#msg1450467 date=1324555313]
can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.


[/quote]

wait! you're not white?!
[/quote]

Referring to someones colour can get you in trouble ...

Shit I just realised I said colour, but don't have a fucking clue what I should have said? skin tone???
[/quote]

ha ha
use the word 'caucasian' as not to cause offence. what non offensive word can you use for black people that isn't a colour?
[/quote]

it sure as heck isn't 'negreto(sp)' as suarez got done for that
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

I thought the C in C1 2 3 etc meant caucasian?

C1 being White European and C3 being African ?

I know C7 means 'Alien' as in ET so maybe not?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450471#msg1450471 date=1324555445]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450467#msg1450467 date=1324555313]
can't understand why I'm offended as I'm not white or whatever. Like I said racism full stop offends me, it doesn't have to be aimed at me.


[/quote]

wait! you're not white?!
[/quote]

Dude, I can't believe you're black!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48021.msg1450480#msg1450480 date=1324556567]
Many of my best friends are blackshirts.
[/quote]

I can well believe it .....
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=48021.msg1450481#msg1450481 date=1324556621]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48021.msg1450480#msg1450480 date=1324556567]
Many of my best friends are blackshirts.
[/quote]

I can well believe it .....
[/quote]

Wtf does that mean you white bastard?!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Your so far right wing, your friends are Blackshirts, whats skin tone got to do with anything?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

So was mine, and being brought up in an Orphanage, you have absolouty no idea how much being called a Bastard offends me.....
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[size=12pt]The F.A, Luis Suarez & The New Liverpool[/size]

HalcyonMag:

It was a shot across the bows which no one, not least the Football Association, expected.

Liverpool’s response to Luis Suarez’s eight-game ban for racially abusing Patrice Evra was uncharacteristic from the club, but it was clear that the time for diplomacy had passed. The content of the statement belonged more to city’s militant heritage rather than the club’s long-running penchant for conducting its business, regardless of severity, in a private manner.

This was the first strike from the new Liverpool; the sign of a club which is not afraid to strike out where and when necessary, especially against the football authority with which it already has endured strained relations this season.

The pressure cooker between Wembley and Anfield has been simmering since September when Kenny Dalglish questioned refereeing standards and the ensuing disciplinary procedures. His campaign has began to gather momentum with several of his Premier League counterparts eventually finding their voices on the matter. However little support has been forthcoming for Suarez as the racism row neared its conclusion yesterday evening.

Such is the tribal nature of the game that both parties have been wrongly labelled. Evra has been branded a serial accuser, despite evidence to the contrary (several previous allegations of racism involving him have been made by third parties) while Suarez is now deemed to be a racist; a smear spread across the back page of one national newspaper yesterday morning.

__________



__________

The chief executive for Football Against Racism in Europe (FARE), the FA’s findings and, judging by Liverpool’s statement, Evra himself acknowledge that Suarez is not a racist, but the verdict, no matter how carefully worded for legal purposes, has allowed the wrong conclusions to be drawn by the football populus.

His previous misgivings at Ajax, where he was suspended by the Dutch FA for biting PSV’s Otman Bakkal, and the infamous handball incident against Ghana during last year’s World Cup had left his card well and truly marked while his provocation of United defender Rafael during their visit to Anfield last season, less than a month into his career in England, did little to help his case. This season he has continued in the same impressive run of form which earned adulation from both fans and journalists alike but his occasional histrionics have only served as further evidence that his 2010 habits will continue to die hard.

With regards to Evra, the FA’s decision not to act on allegations that he told Marriner “you’re only booking me because I’m black” after being cautioned for a challenge on Dirk Kuyt, just two minutes after he and Suarez had faced off, indicates that this claim carried little substance during the Independent Regulatory Commission’s investigation.

__________



__________

But this is merely the beginning, rather than the end of the matter. Liverpool’s statement was followed by a response from the team and a collective show of support with players sporting t-shirts with the striker’s face and name on them ahead of last night’s goalless draw with Wigan.

All eyes were on Suarez during the stalemate at the DW Stadium and for all his jovial facial expressions, it was his worst performance to date for Liverpool, which was to be expected from a player sentenced on the say-so of an opposing player.

From the offset, this case has always been one man’s word against another. Neither Suarez or Evra’s team mates, nor referee Andre Marriner heard any of the alleged terms but the FA had to be seen as taking a stand against racism following Sepp Blatter’s remarkable statement about the matter last month and the claim against England captain John Terry.

In doing so, they have allowed Suarez to become the game’s most recent victim of ‘trial by media’. And as every football fan knows, mud sticks.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Don't these people (by these I don't mean because of their skin tone) people read ?

JasonRoberts30 Jason Roberts The Stance on the Suarez issue from LFC has bemused me...are United going to print Evra shirts now????? Some issues are bigger than football

Former United and Republic of Ireland defender Paul McGrath was also compelled to comment, tweeting: "As ex footballer having experienced racist comments throughout my career I was saddened to see Liverpool players wear those tshirts last nite."
 
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