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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Things like not calling a black board black or not being able to song ba ba black sheep are absurd, find me one person who it offends. And the problem is people, rightly, get their backs up about being pulled up for things like that and Er upset with the whole 'PC brigade gone mad' and start throwing the baby out with the bath water and don't consider it important to be sensitive to things that actually are important.

I cringe when people use terms like 'coloured' but it doesn't offend me, as more often than not its as a result of just not knowing/ generational gap.

I do wish we could speak more openly about race; and I don't mean on a forum, I lean in society in general, but between people being over sensitive and others being clueless and saying mad ignorant stuff without realising it, it makes it difficult. That said, I'm always happy to have conversations with people even if they ask what they might deem to be silly questions, I like to think in quite open on that sense.


It's when people start acting arrogant with their ignorance, I can no longer deal.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48021.msg1450393#msg1450393 date=1324551924]
I bet there are no coloured or hispanic people in the whole FA.
[/quote]

There was Faria Alam. That didn't end well!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=48021.msg1450397#msg1450397 date=1324552102]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450380#msg1450380 date=1324551269]

atkinson - 'he's a lazy n****r'

no intent
[/quote]


What exactly do you mean by "no intent"?


Maybe not militantly racist, but nevertheless spreading around the idea that it's ok or normal to generalise black people as "lazy".


I think it's disgusting, personally.
[/quote]

I was joking with 'no intent' but seriously I don't consider ron atkinson racist
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

PS I agree that the distinction as to why "black" is ok and "coloured" isn't is extremely vague.


But I suppose if somebody called me "uncoloured" I would think it didn't sound very nice.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

this Hansen thing makes me want to tear my hair out. political correctness gone completely insane. and if any drooling thicko tries to give the Stewart 'Smug Cunt' Lee defence i'll rip their fucking head off.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450402#msg1450402 date=1324552355]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=48021.msg1450397#msg1450397 date=1324552102]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450380#msg1450380 date=1324551269]

atkinson - 'he's a lazy n****r'

no intent
[/quote]


What exactly do you mean by "no intent"?


Maybe not militantly racist, but nevertheless spreading around the idea that it's ok or normal to generalise black people as "lazy".


I think it's disgusting, personally.
[/quote]

I was joking with 'no intent' but seriously I don't consider ron atkinson racist
[/quote]

Really? Come on Neil, he's your stereotypical ignorant 60+ year old. He's the Alf Garnett of the footballing world. Suarez is young and is taking shit for not adjusting to culture after a year in the country, Atkinson had the chance to move with the times, after managing multi cultural and multi race players for years.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=48021.msg1450376#msg1450376 date=1324551126]
but black is unacceptable


edited for humour

[/quote]


woah, woah, woah..... 😉
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

You dont think atkinson is racist?!

So if i called you a lazy n***** you wouldnt think i was racist?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Black people aren't really black anyways. They're brown.

Dark brown people.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=48021.msg1450403#msg1450403 date=1324552362]
PS I agree that the distinction as to why "black" is ok and "coloured" isn't is extremely vague.


But I suppose if somebody called me "uncoloured" I would think it didn't sound very nice.
[/quote]

It's a daft, vague distinction yes, which is why it's always baffled me as to why it's ok to call someone 'white', or to have a music awards ceremony called the fucking MOBO's!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

It's not often I wished Neil worked for the FA, but today is one of those days.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=48021.msg1450399#msg1450399 date=1324552164]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48021.msg1450393#msg1450393 date=1324551924]
I bet there are no coloured or hispanic people in the whole FA.
[/quote]

There was Faria Alam. That didn't end well!
[/quote]

She ruined it for all of us!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=48021.msg1450415#msg1450415 date=1324552804]


White is a colour.
[/quote]

technically white and black aren't colours as they are deviod of 'colour'
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450398#msg1450398 date=1324552119]
Things like not calling a black board black or not being able to song ba ba black sheep are absurd, find me one person who it offends. And the problem is people, rightly, get their backs up about being pulled up for things like that and Er upset with the whole 'PC brigade gone mad' and start throwing the baby out with the bath water and don't consider it important to be sensitive to things that actually are important.

I cringe when people use terms like 'coloured' but it doesn't offend me, as more often than not its as a result of just not knowing/ generational gap.

I do wish we could speak more openly about race; and I don't mean on a forum, I lean in society in general, but between people being over sensitive and others being clueless and saying mad ignorant stuff without realising it, it makes it difficult. That said, I'm always happy to have conversations with people even if they ask what they might deem to be silly questions, I like to think in quite open on that sense.


It's when people start acting arrogant with their ignorance, I can no longer deal.
[/quote]





Where I can't see eye-to-eye with you, is that your focus always seems to be on the usage, rather than the intent.


I've probably got the wrong end of the stick, but for some reason I feel that if the focus is only on the usage, rather than how people actually feel, then it's like saying that xenophobia is acceptable or normal (it probably is normal, in the sense that people fear the unknown, and this can apply to people that look differently to how you do, but I think this should be overcome) as long as it isn't revealed.


I'm not having a go, just bringing up an avenue of discussion.


I absolutely agree about the problems with some people being over sensitive and others being stark raving bonkers. I was just talking to a lad at the coffee machine and he said that he is a bit racist, because his family don't like black people. I told him it was idiotic. And otherwise he's a nice person; I wouldn't have guessed this - but if your parents are xenophobic, then I guess it can be hard to shake for a lot of people.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450419#msg1450419 date=1324552985]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=48021.msg1450415#msg1450415 date=1324552804]


White is a colour.
[/quote]

technically white and black aren't colours as they are deviod of 'colour'
[/quote]

White is made up of every colour. Black is "devoid of colour".
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=keniget link=topic=48021.msg1450410#msg1450410 date=1324552654]
Black people aren't really black anyways. They're brown.

Dark brown people.
[/quote]

i know!! that cretin Rohan Rickets made some rambling attack on Hansen, based around the fact that 'coloured' makes no literal sense, and ended it with 'we are BLACK!'

errrr, no you're fucking not, you (dark brown) moron.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=48021.msg1450398#msg1450398 date=1324552119]
Things like not calling a black board black or not being able to song ba ba black sheep are absurd, find me one person who it offends. And the problem is people, rightly, get their backs up about being pulled up for things like that and Er upset with the whole 'PC brigade gone mad' and start throwing the baby out with the bath water and don't consider it important to be sensitive to things that actually are important.

I cringe when people use terms like 'coloured' but it doesn't offend me, as more often than not its as a result of just not knowing/ generational gap.

I do wish we could speak more openly about race; and I don't mean on a forum, I lean in society in general, but between people being over sensitive and others being clueless and saying mad ignorant stuff without realising it, it makes it difficult. That said, I'm always happy to have conversations with people even if they ask what they might deem to be silly questions, I like to think in quite open on that sense.


It's when people start acting arrogant with their ignorance, I can no longer deal.
[/quote]

Your post reads like you have quite a lot of exposure to race issues, do you work in the field?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=48021.msg1450425#msg1450425 date=1324553284]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48021.msg1450410#msg1450410 date=1324552654]
Black people aren't really black anyways. They're brown.

Dark brown people.
[/quote]

'we are BLACK!'


[/quote]

Unless they're Purple Aki!!
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48021.msg1450416#msg1450416 date=1324552862]
It's not often I wished Neil worked for the FA, but today is one of those days.
[/quote]

what's that supposed to mean?
the truth is when I first heard suarez had made a racial slur towards evra I was prepared to stop supporting the player. it turns out the 'alleged' (we don't know the full facts) was negreto (or whatever the fuck that is) and isn't meant in a derogatory way so I can let it slide.

as for big ron, the reason I say he isn't racist is because of the black players he purchased for his team at a time when there were hardly any black players in england and also the black players who jumped to his defense.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=48021.msg1450415#msg1450415 date=1324552804]



White is a colour.
[/quote]

Picture the scene. It is March 1972 and Don Revie is hard at work on the anthemic Leeds United song that he has been writing since 1968. He has just finished the first line, 'White is the colour' when he turns on the Jimmy Young show and hears Chelsea's new single: 'Blue is the colour'. He breaks down in tears.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Robin:

I was saying to Oncy over text yesterday the thing wih race and racism is things are beer clear cut, like with anyone human things arw subjective, and constantly evolving, even within an individual.

We all know people, particularly older relatives who will use terms that are unacceptable, but we *know* them well enough to know the issue is with language as opposed to what they feel.

However, for the most part, we can't ever delve into what's in someone else's heart or mind, we can only judge man by actions and speech, so that's what we have to go on. Usually one's actions and what they say are a good indicator of what try feel and who they are.

Like I say it's not clear cut, you might have examples of someone who isn't considered on speech and says all kinds of mad things and yet has the purest of hearts or the other way round, someone who's so considered in what they say but their intentions are the worst imaginable, like I said, we're taking about humans so it's hugely subjective.

I was thinking about this yesterday, of I had an argument with someone at work, let's say someone I didn't like to begin with, an in the midst of the argument that person called me a
p***, would I just let it slide?


I really resent playing the role of the angry ethnic, ideally I want to be able to challenge things in a measured and constructive way, but it's not always easy when you're talking about something so emotive and personal.

Problem on the forum is I end up arguing against an extreme point and therefore have to represent the opposite view in its extreme, things become very polarised and arw not necessarily reflective of what I think.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450429#msg1450429 date=1324553405]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48021.msg1450416#msg1450416 date=1324552862]
It's not often I wished Neil worked for the FA, but today is one of those days.
[/quote]

what's that supposed to mean?
the truth is when I first heard suarez had made a racial slur towards evra I was prepared to stop supporting the player. it turns out the 'alleged' (we don't know the full facts) was negreto (or whatever the fuck that is) and isn't meant in a derogatory way so I can let it slide.

as for big ron, the reason I say he isn't racist is because of the black players he purchased for his team at a time when there were hardly any black players in england and also the black players who jumped to his defense.
[/quote]

You've answered your own question.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450429#msg1450429 date=1324553405]
as for big ron, the reason I say he isn't racist is because of the black he purchased for his team at a time when there were hardly any black players in england and also the black players who jumped to his defense.
[/quote]

I agree - racist is a simple word that is inadequate to cover the complexity of human feelings and behaviour. Ron Atkinson made a silly racist comment, but what he did in his life up to then seemed to demonstrate that he wasn't a racist. Who is to know the truth?
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48021.msg1450419#msg1450419 date=1324552985]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=48021.msg1450415#msg1450415 date=1324552804]


White is a colour.
[/quote]

technically white and black aren't colours as they are deviod of 'colour'
[/quote]

except, white is a combination of an entire spectrum of colours. which we've known for 350yrs odd. Just like we've known there is only a human race, we're not made of different races at all. People just like to make shit up to talk about it. Dantes thinks if there's nothing to say to begin with why can't you just shut the fuck up? Why do human beings make up shit and feel the need to have to start talking. Just be quiet.
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

Btw apologies for all the typos, random words and poor grammar. Bloody iPhone autocorrect does my head in
 
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48021.msg1450435#msg1450435 date=1324553757]
Compare Oliver Holt's article the last two days:

Suarez: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Why-Luis-Suarez-s-eight-game-ban-for-racism-is-absolutely-right-Oliver-Holt-opinion-article845018.html

Terry: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Oliver-Holt-on-John-Terry-racism-charge-Why-he-must-be-presumed-innocent-until-found-guilty-just-like-Luis-Suarez-was-article845244.html
[/quote]

just comparing the headlines is hilarious let alone reading the actual articles
 
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