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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448378#msg1448378 date=1324421533]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448376#msg1448376 date=1324421454]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47188.msg1448371#msg1448371 date=1324421338]
where is fox anyway?
[/quote]

After his surprising poll victory over brendan, he retired from the site ... he's returned under a different user name.
[/quote]

He has?
[/quote]

I'd have thought that would have been noticed straight away. Unless his idiocy was all just an act!
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448389#msg1448389 date=1324421799]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448385#msg1448385 date=1324421700]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448380#msg1448380 date=1324421611]
Mario Balotelli's tweet .... "The FA are willing to ban someone based on one persons claim, with no video evidence? In that case, the whole ManU squad racially abused me"
[/quote]

LOL, that can't be real!!
[/quote]

Some group in FB posted it - I don't know if it's real as I'm not on twitter.
[/quote]

It isn't.

It's a parody account.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1448392#msg1448392 date=1324421900]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448389#msg1448389 date=1324421799]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448385#msg1448385 date=1324421700]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448380#msg1448380 date=1324421611]
Mario Balotelli's tweet .... "The FA are willing to ban someone based on one persons claim, with no video evidence? In that case, the whole ManU squad racially abused me"
[/quote]

LOL, that can't be real!!
[/quote]

Some group in FB posted it - I don't know if it's real as I'm not on twitter.
[/quote]

It isn't.

It's a parody account.
[/quote]

There you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you themn.

I'm sorry for letting you down in this thread.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448396#msg1448396 date=1324422093]
I do feel sorry for Luis Suarez, I think he probably feels totally blind sighted.
[/quote]

Blind sighted? Isn't that just called..... "'blind"?
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448398#msg1448398 date=1324422169]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448396#msg1448396 date=1324422093]
I do feel sorry for Luis Suarez, I think he probably feels totally blind sighted.
[/quote]

Blind sighted? Isn't that just called..... "'blind"?
[/quote]

Eight post ban - sightist behaviour
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47188.msg1448382#msg1448382 date=1324421642]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47188.msg1448377#msg1448377 date=1324421479]
So when does the ban start?
[/quote]

Tomorrow.
[/quote]

Surely not, how can the ban start tomorrow?

The FA haven't disclosed the full reasons for the ban, and we can't appeal on uncorroborated rumours of their reasons, otherwise it might be a frivolous appeal which carries an extra match ban. I though I was semi intelligent (steady) until I tried to work out the black arts of the FA.
 
The ban is stayed pending an appeal, we have 14 days to appeal so the ban won't kick in til January.
 
So let me get this straight:

Had Luis denied the comment- no match ban.

Had Luis admitted the comment - 8 match ban.

had Luis denied the comment and others testified against him - xxx match ban?

Doesn't that leave EBJT in the latter?
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448398#msg1448398 date=1324422169]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448396#msg1448396 date=1324422093]
I do feel sorry for Luis Suarez, I think he probably feels totally blind sighted.
[/quote]

Blind sighted? Isn't that just called..... "'blind"?
[/quote]

Meant sided. Damn iPhone autocorrect
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1448405#msg1448405 date=1324422714]
The ban is stayed pending an appeal, we have 14 days to appeal so the ban won't kick in til January.
[/quote]

By which time Gerrard should hopefully be back. And we could also buy a new striker.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1448405#msg1448405 date=1324422714]
The ban is stayed pending an appeal, we have 14 days to appeal so the ban won't kick in til January.
[/quote]

As an aficionado of the law Ross, shouldn't Suarez have 14 days after the full account of the reasons for his sentence are published? You can't appeal until you know the full reasons of the sentence surely?

If, as it may happen, the FA don't publish these until after Christmas, his legal team won't have a lot of time to prepare.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448408#msg1448408 date=1324423057]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47188.msg1448398#msg1448398 date=1324422169]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448396#msg1448396 date=1324422093]
I do feel sorry for Luis Suarez, I think he probably feels totally blind sighted.
[/quote]

Blind sighted? Isn't that just called..... "'blind"?
[/quote]

Meant sided. Damn iPhone autocorrect
[/quote]

It's ok, we understood what you menstruated.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448414#msg1448414 date=1324423239]
That new striker should be black too, that'll be a good look for everyone involved.
[/quote]NOT ME!!!!

*mouths the word*

Sol.da.do
 
Appaz he is entitled to the info within 5 days, then has a further 9 days to appeal.

It's not really all that complicated so it shouldn't take long to appeal, and the chances are they already know what grounds they'll be appealing on. Things like asylum have similar time limits (in Ireland anyway)
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448414#msg1448414 date=1324423239]
That new striker should be black too, that'll be a good look for everyone involved.
[/quote]

Hahahahaaa !!
 
Some comments on BBC:

PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor added: "I was surprised at the severity of the punishment - bearing in mind the length of time the case took. That suggested there was some doubt about the claims.

"But it shows the FA must have some compelling evidence."
Click to expand...

Mark Lawrenson:

It is quite an unbelievable statement and a harsh statement. Suarez could be suspended for 20% of the season - it's devastating for Liverpool
Click to expand...

Tim Vickery, BBC's South American Correspondent:

When Luis Suarez joined Liverpool at the start of the year I wrote that he had the ability to shine in the Premier League but also that his fiery temperament would be put to the test.

He has given us more than I bargained for. An instant Anfield sensation, his exploits for Uruguay make Suarez beyond doubt the outstanding player in the world this year in terms of national team football.

In England, as expected, he has become the Liverpool player least likely to be popular with opposing fans but he has exceeded his own reputation for controversy with the flare-up with Patrice Evra and the charge of racism which has now brought him an eight-game ban and a £40,000 fine.

It is news which has not gone down well in Uruguay. When the verdict was announced and published on the website of El Pais, the country's leading newspaper, the comments section was full of remarks attacking the "hypocrisy" and "pseudo-moralism" of the English.

When Suarez pulls on the sky blue shirt of his country he is part of a national team which has an unrivalled record of giving opportunities to afro-descendants. In the face of protests from their opponents, Uruguay picked black players in the first Copa America in 1916.

Probably the most revered figure in the history of Uruguayan football is Obdulio Varela, captain of the side that won the World Cup in 1950. His nickname was "El Negro Jefe" - the black boss.

Among Suarez's team-mates these days is Maxi Pereira, who is known as "El Mono" - the monkey. It is a nickname which, apparently, is given and accepted with no offence meant or taken. It appears to be used in the same spirit that Alvaro Fernandez is called "El Flaco", which means skinny.

These words are not easy - perhaps almost impossible - to translate into a contemporary English context. How do you judge the weight of a word uttered in a foreign language from a different mindset?

When Mick Jagger wailed "Hey Negrita" on the Rolling Stones song, his words were surely intended in praise. If it is true that Suarez used a similar word to address Evra, this would not seem to be the case.

But how to know when this word ceases to be descriptive and becomes pejorative? And for the FA disciplinary committee, how to avoid kicking the case around like a political football?

Suarez provided them with a problem - but also with an opportunity.

Context is crucial, not just in what Suarez may have done, but also in how it is judged. When Sepp Blatter apologised for appearing to suggest racist remarks could be overcome with a handshake, it gave English football another chance to indulge in Fifa-bashing.

There must have been a temptation to throw the book at Suarez and send a strong anti-racist message to the world. The severity of the verdict would seem to indicate that this was a temptation the disciplinary board were not able to resist.

When moral panic is whipped up, coherence tends to fly out of the window. Some of those calling for Blatter's head on the racism issue are the very people who believed that everything was fine with Fifa while Sir Stanley Rous of England was in charge from 1961 to 1974.

Rous seriously damaged the development of African football with his defence of Apartheid in South Africa - a stance which looked awful at the time and was disastrous in hindsight.

In his campaign to unseat Rous in 1974, Brazilian Joao Havelange made a point of showing physical intimacy with the African delegates. An Englishman, he reasoned, would not do the same.

Thankfully England is much-changed since then.

English football can be proud of its anti-racism work but it should be remembered that what has happened in our country is a domestic dynamic. Mass immigration starting in the 1950s brought in hundreds of thousands of newcomers with full political rights - and so the discrimination they suffered could only be put down to racism.

Football made this sickeningly obvious. The Caribbean descendants who started to make an impact on the pitch from the late 1960s had to put up with all kinds of abuse. Over time a consensus formed around the belief that racist behaviour was unacceptable.

This dynamic does not necessarily apply elsewhere. In South America the legacy of centuries of slavery can make attitudes towards race more entrenched - but also more subtle. Elsewhere, to the east of Europe, for example, there has been very little exposure to the kind of multi-cultural existence that has become the norm in Britain.

This in no way invalidates the anti-racist position of English football. But it does mean that if the debate is to be won - and that surely must be the objective - then there are dangers in the moralistic holier-than-thou approach that the English can be prone to take.

This issue provides a real opportunity for English football to do some good - and also for the Football Association to improve its global profile. Much depends on how it is handled.

There is little to be gained in hectoring other nations and individuals with a moral high ground position of, "We're not racist, you are". Instead, there might be room for a position of leadership with a huge dose of humility.

"This is the problem of racism that we faced in our game," could be the line to football authorities around the world. "This is what we decided to do about it and, although we are nowhere near perfect, we feel we have made a lot of progress. Some of this may be useful to you".

My hope is that any punishment administered to Luis Suarez has been guided by this spirit. My fear is that this has not been the case.

A few weeks ago the penultimate set of games in the Brazilian championship was named the "Round against Racism". All over the country teams had their photo taken behind a banner saying "Say no to racism. Racism is a crime".

The measure, though, was not accompanied by any attempt to stimulate a debate on the subject - on why there are so few black coaches, for example, or on taking legal action when members of the crowd make monkey noises, as occasionally happens in Brazilian stadiums.

The impression was that the Brazilian FA were playing politics. Its president Ricardo Teixeira had fallen out with Fifa boss Blatter. When Blatter put his foot in his mouth on the racism issue, Teixeira saw his opportunity.

"The Round against Racism" was nothing of the sort. In reality, cynically and opportunistically, it was the "Round against Blatter".

The English FA have now left themselves open to the same accusation of cynicism. What Suarez is alleged to have done is wrong. To draw attention to the colour of someone's skin in a manner that could be construed as pejorative is not acceptable in our reality.

There is a clear case for punishment as part of a process of education. But the eight-game ban would seem to go much further. It smacks of the FA seizing on a chance to score a political point. Were they really judging a case, or are they more interested in landing a glove on Sepp Blatter?
Click to expand...
 
Is this the longest ban the FA have ever handed out to a player for an on the field mater ? I remember Ben Thatcher getting a six game ban for nearly taking off some Portsmouth players head with his elbow.

So if Saurez would've lied he wouldn't have been found guilty but as he told the truth he's got an 8 game ban. Surely the club and it's lawyers were 100% behind his statement or they wouldn't have let him make it if there was a chance if they thought he'd be found guilty.

As others have said i'l put my faith in the club and Kenny that there doing the right thing.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1448418#msg1448418 date=1324423305]
Appaz he is entitled to the info within 5 days, then has a further 9 days to appeal.

It's not really all that complicated so it shouldn't take long to appeal, and the chances are they already know what grounds they'll be appealing on. Things like asylum have similar time limits (in Ireland anyway)
[/quote]

So info by Christmas day, and appeal by the first working day back for many people (3rd January)? I know this is all money orientated Ross, and he'll pay for the right people to fight his corner, but for these 9 days to fall over Christmas and New Year? Seems odd.

This is a man's reputation, a black mark (excuse the unfortunate terminology!) on his character for the whole of his life. If he's a racist, fair enough, but the allegations were made on the 19th October, so to give his legal team the 25th December to the 3rd January seem a little harsh.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47188.msg1448426#msg1448426 date=1324423822]
How long was Keegan out for?

Just checked - Keggy 3, Bremner 8. I thought Kevin was out for much longer!
[/quote]

I thought Johnny Giles also played a part in it all?
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1448414#msg1448414 date=1324423239]
That new striker should be black too, that'll be a good look for everyone involved.
[/quote]

We've just hired John Barnes to be President of the Liverpool Disabled Association.

I had to laugh. We couldn't be more PC right now.
 
[quote author=jono@home link=topic=47188.msg1448429#msg1448429 date=1324424030]
Cantona scissor kick into the stands was probably the longest ban ever given out...
[/quote]

..and, as Ferdinand, when did he return?

I know I'm being pithy, but I wish Suarez had just snorted coke off the arse of Ferguson's niece in May with the papers filming it. nice summer holiday, and back when the season gets going a-la Toure (not that he snorted coke off someone's arse!)
 
It fucking smacks of bullshit and hypocrisy, particularly WHEN, not if, EBJT gets less than 8 games - potentially nothing at all. The role in getting one over Blatter should not be ignored.

The club should withdraw the English players from international friendlies if they feel they've been hard done by, which it appears they do. I knew a hefty ban was coming, yet I still hoped they'd not be so harsh. I'm guessing the FA weren't aware of Suarez being mixed race either.

I can understand people having different opinions to me on this, such as Ross, Anita, Oncy etc, and I respect that. But the information I, and others, have contributed in this thread seemed to suggest that there was enough doubt and enough of an explanation to suggest that there was no racist intent.

I look forward to Evra and Terry being banned for 8 games too for their remarks.
 
[quote author=IanTheRed link=topic=47188.msg1448427#msg1448427 date=1324423926]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1448418#msg1448418 date=1324423305]
Appaz he is entitled to the info within 5 days, then has a further 9 days to appeal.

It's not really all that complicated so it shouldn't take long to appeal, and the chances are they already know what grounds they'll be appealing on. Things like asylum have similar time limits (in Ireland anyway)
[/quote]

So info by Christmas day, and appeal by the first working day back for many people (3rd January)? I know this is all money orientated Ross, and he'll pay for the right people to fight his corner, but for these 9 days to fall over Christmas and New Year? Seems odd.

This is a man's reputation, a black mark (excuse the unfortunate terminology!) on his character for the whole of his life. If he's a racist, fair enough, but the allegations were made on the 19th October, so to give his legal team the 25th December to the 3rd January seem a little harsh.
[/quote]

It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said 'I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist'.

[size=24pt]"The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.[/size]





The FA say he is not Racist, Evra says he is not racist, why are some of you STILL saying he IS racist?
 
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