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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446900#msg1446900 date=1324302021]
I've been looking Gerry, youtube is no help.


[/quote]

Then how do you know it was part of a heated exchange? Nobody seems to know when it was said, and exactly what was said, how are you so sure?
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1446907#msg1446907 date=1324302385]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446900#msg1446900 date=1324302021]
I've been looking Gerry, youtube is no help.


[/quote]

Then how do you know it was part of a heated exchange? Nobody seems to know when it was said, and exactly what was said, how are you so sure?
[/quote]

Go back and watch the game. Point out the friendly exchanges that Evra and Suarez had. I don't remember any
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446891#msg1446891 date=1324301654]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47188.msg1446864#msg1446864 date=1324300985]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=47188.msg1446817#msg1446817 date=1324299099]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1446809#msg1446809 date=1324298871]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446806#msg1446806 date=1324298718]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446803#msg1446803 date=1324298609]
Literally its "Because black" I think
[/quote]

or ?
[/quote]

Why, black man?
[/quote]

or "Why, mate?"

All those translations are correct btw... although I think Rosco meant "por que" rather than "porque".
[/quote]

Isn't "por que" roughly translated "for what?" - so "for what, darling?".

A quick point: there seems an assumption by some that whatever Suarez said was out of anger/part of a heated exchange. My memory of the game leads me to think Evra was really wound up and Suarez seemed bemused at worst. No?
[/quote]

It was said as part of a heated exchange.
[/quote]

Plus nine other heated exchanges apparently. None of which were picked up by the Sky cameras, other players, anyone in the 44000 crowd or the referee. None of these heated exchanges were reported to the referee, apparently, until 20 minutes after the game ended.
 
Right Jack.

Suarez admits he said something that he knows set Evra off, and that it was said more than once.

Jack says nothing happened ever.

Sort yourself out. Anyone who watched the game could tell there was a row going on between Suarez and Evra, particularly after one tackle down on the right hand side of the pitch (from where the camera was )in the second half.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446912#msg1446912 date=1324302516]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446891#msg1446891 date=1324301654]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47188.msg1446864#msg1446864 date=1324300985]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=47188.msg1446817#msg1446817 date=1324299099]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1446809#msg1446809 date=1324298871]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446806#msg1446806 date=1324298718]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446803#msg1446803 date=1324298609]
Literally its "Because black" I think
[/quote]

or ?
[/quote]

Why, black man?
[/quote]

or "Why, mate?"

All those translations are correct btw... although I think Rosco meant "por que" rather than "porque".
[/quote]

Isn't "por que" roughly translated "for what?" - so "for what, darling?".

A quick point: there seems an assumption by some that whatever Suarez said was out of anger/part of a heated exchange. My memory of the game leads me to think Evra was really wound up and Suarez seemed bemused at worst. No?
[/quote]

It was said as part of a heated exchange.
[/quote]

Plus nine other heated exchanges apparently. None of which were picked up by the Sky cameras, other players, anyone in the 44000 crowd or the referee. None of these heated exchanges were reported to the referee, apparently, until 20 minutes after the game ended.
[/quote]Innit mate. Like why have the FA even charged him. He clearly did nothing and even if he did, WHICH HE DIDNT, he was just saying mate or darling or something, but he didnt say it anyway, and if he did it was because he didnt know what he was saying or was just saying mate to evra who he well likes, i bet you can see him smiling in the exchanges, if there were any, but there werent cos nothing even happened, and even if it did and he said it and meant it bad, which he didnt obv, i dont care because hes ace and this is all just a government stitch up run by Fergie and suarez and the FA bre. Gemme.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446760#msg1446760 date=1324295812]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
[/quote]

All good points, and the FA seem to have a cast iron case based on their charges. However because of what kingjulian just said, Suarez will have an equally cast iron case for defamation afterwards.
[/quote]

They're not all good points. Point 2 is garbage. Suarez is a Spanish speaker with, as yet, little English and that goes to the heart of what he meant by whatever he said. A decision based on the approach set out in point 2 would be easily overturned on judicial review.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446785#msg1446785 date=1324297391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1446761#msg1446761 date=1324295891]
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
[/quote]

Given he was in the UK for the best part of a year, and Holland before that. It's not unfair to think he should know by now.
[/quote]

Yes it is. It isn't as if this is an everyday subject of conversation or that the "n" word is commonly heard.

Incidentally I doubt we've threatened them with an action for defamation (though they may well realise that's also a possibility). My bet would be we've threatened them with judicial review and a claim for damages arising out of that, and I hope we follow through on it even if you don't.
 
Whilst sitting in row d of the paddock at Loftus Road yesterday, as Evra went to take a throw, I politely enquired how his friend Luis was. He didn't respond.

Clearly he did this because I am white and therefore he is..................a racist!
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446900#msg1446900 date=1324302021]
I've been looking Gerry, youtube is no help.
[/quote]

Yet, you know how heated the exchange was...
 
Does one have to a racist to join Doc Mac's "merry band of racists"?

Surely it would be discriminatory to not allow non-racists in?
 
The fact is that he said he's heard Evra's team mates use the same phrase. I'm not sure how he was supposed to know there was something wrong with it, if that's the case.

And that's even if there is something wrong with using the phrase, we believe he did use.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47188.msg1446938#msg1446938 date=1324304649]
Haha, you've always got something up your sleeve John 🙂
[/quote]

I'm serious though. I did ask and much to the disquiet of to the husband of the lady who's season ticket was, I was pretty vocal. I should stress that I did not use the N word though.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47188.msg1446931#msg1446931 date=1324304392]
This thread is gonna keep going and going long after the outcome isn't it?
[/quote]

Naa...after the outcome i'd just like to call Rosco a ginormous cunt and leave it at that....whatever the verdict is.
 
I wonder if Evra was just standing there silently taking all those racist abuses w/o responding or sending some insults towards Suarez.
Can it be that Evra also said some bad things? Is this being inspected by the English FA too? if it isn't - why not?
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1446847#msg1446847 date=1324300284]
Modern day football is brilliant.
We learnt about metatarsals and then went on to the net and gross that was fun.
We involved ourselves in understanding complex legal issues and now talk about the nuances of the Spanish language.
[/quote]

and we input that footballers have university degrees in racial agressions
 
I'll try to do this

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1446918#msg1446918 date=1324302789]
Innit mate.

Like why have the FA even charged him. Because Suarez must have admitted to things which support Evra's complaint. He must feel as pissed off as Evra about the accusations and is naively thinking that honesty is the best policy, and that he will be believed because he's telling the truth. Stupid if you ask me, because a racist could easily have denied everything and there would be no evidence on which to prove any charge. When the accusations first came out most people thought oh here we go...Evra up to his old tricks again. Suarez could easily have played along with that and this would have been over with a month ago. Why did he make life difficult for himself if he had actually racially abused him?

He clearly did nothing and even if he did, WHICH HE DIDNT, he was just saying mate or darling or something, but he didnt say it anyway, and if he did it was because he didnt know what he was saying or was just saying mate to evra who he well likes, Why do you argue this? You know in English, you can full well say a word like mate or darling sarcastically (look at the bolded bit at the top for example), the same applies to what Suarez said and of course he wasn't trying to be endearing. You're just saying this to ridicule his defense


i bet you can see him smiling in the exchanges, if there were any, but there werent cos nothing even happened, and even if it did and he said it and meant it bad, which he didnt obv, i dont care because hes ace and this is all just a government stitch up run by Fergie and suarez and the FA bre. Gemme. Something did happen, the reason Suarez was smiling is probably cos he referred to Evra as a pussy. If he referred to him in racist terms smiling is a strange way to follow that up. Look at john Terry's facial expressions after his comments, can you imagine him smiling afterwards?
[/quote]
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47188.msg1446937#msg1446937 date=1324304598]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446900#msg1446900 date=1324302021]
I've been looking Gerry, youtube is no help.
[/quote]

Yet, you know how heated the exchange was...
[/quote]

Maybe he watched the actual game?
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=47188.msg1446956#msg1446956 date=1324305348]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47188.msg1446937#msg1446937 date=1324304598]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446900#msg1446900 date=1324302021]
I've been looking Gerry, youtube is no help.
[/quote]

Yet, you know how heated the exchange was...
[/quote]

Maybe he watched the actual game?

[/quote]

Maybe he was at the game alright. It couldn't have been from watching it on tv, as none of the camera's seem to have picked it up.
 
None of the cameras caught Suarez using a naughty word, I remember Suarez n evra having a heated exchange and I didn't see it on youtube
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1446935#msg1446935 date=1324304537]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446785#msg1446785 date=1324297391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1446761#msg1446761 date=1324295891]
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
[/quote]

Given he was in the UK for the best part of a year, and Holland before that. It's not unfair to think he should know by now.
[/quote]

Yes it is. It isn't as if this is an everyday subject of conversation or that the "n" word is commonly heard.

Incidentally I doubt we've threatened them with an action for defamation (though they may well realise that's also a possibility). My bet would be we've threatened them with judicial review and a claim for damages arising out of that, and I hope we follow through on it even if you don't.
[/quote]

Yep, unless Suarez heard someone in Anfield and Liverpool racially abusing Johnson/others as a N and being told off/given a bollocking/sued during that 9 months in England I would not hesitate to suggest that Suarez is innocent.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1446929#msg1446929 date=1324304312]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446760#msg1446760 date=1324295812]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
[/quote]

All good points, and the FA seem to have a cast iron case based on their charges. However because of what kingjulian just said, Suarez will have an equally cast iron case for defamation afterwards.
[/quote]

They're not all good points. Point 2 is garbage. Suarez is a Spanish speaker with, as yet, little English and that goes to the heart of what he meant by whatever he said. A decision based on the approach set out in point 2 would be easily overturned on judicial review.
[/quote]

In a judicial review you get to argue based on the principles of natural justice, fairness, and things like that. But in a hearing they tend to follow procedures. I'm pretty sure the FA have no procedures written down that tell the panel how to distinguish or account for culture. Ergo from an administrative view, the decision the panel make will be to say ignorance is no defense against breaking the rules. It's up to Suarez to show later those procedures were unjust and then fuck the FA over for ruining his reputation.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446968#msg1446968 date=1324305840]
I cant believe some people think nothing at all happened during the game.

[/quote]

I don't think nothing happened, if you're referring to me.

All I think is, from the evidence we have, he wasn't being racist during the game. Nor do I think there is evidence to convict him of it.

There is evidence to convict him of the charge the FA leveled against him though.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446951#msg1446951 date=1324305223]
I'll try to do this

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1446918#msg1446918 date=1324302789]
Innit mate.

Like why have the FA even charged him. Because Suarez must have admitted to things which support Evra's complaint. He must feel as pissed off as Evra about the accusations and is naively thinking that honesty is the best policy, and that he will be believed because he's telling the truth. Stupid if you ask me, because a racist could easily have denied everything and there would be no evidence on which to prove any charge. When the accusations first came out most people thought oh here we go...Evra up to his old tricks again. Suarez could easily have played along with that and this would have been over with a month ago. Why did he make life difficult for himself if he had actually racially abused him?

He clearly did nothing and even if he did, WHICH HE DIDNT, he was just saying mate or darling or something, but he didnt say it anyway, and if he did it was because he didnt know what he was saying or was just saying mate to evra who he well likes, Why do you argue this? You know in English, you can full well say a word like mate or darling sarcastically (look at the bolded bit at the top for example), the same applies to what Suarez said and of course he wasn't trying to be endearing. You're just saying this to ridicule his defense


i bet you can see him smiling in the exchanges, if there were any, but there werent cos nothing even happened, and even if it did and he said it and meant it bad, which he didnt obv, i dont care because hes ace and this is all just a government stitch up run by Fergie and suarez and the FA bre. Gemme. Something did happen, the reason Suarez was smiling is probably cos he referred to Evra as a pussy. If he referred to him in racist terms smiling is a strange way to follow that up. Look at john Terry's facial expressions after his comments, can you imagine him smiling afterwards?
[/quote]
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1446975#msg1446975 date=1324306145]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446951#msg1446951 date=1324305223]
I'll try to do this

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1446918#msg1446918 date=1324302789]
Innit mate.

Like why have the FA even charged him. Because Suarez must have admitted to things which support Evra's complaint. He must feel as pissed off as Evra about the accusations and is naively thinking that honesty is the best policy, and that he will be believed because he's telling the truth. Stupid if you ask me, because a racist could easily have denied everything and there would be no evidence on which to prove any charge. When the accusations first came out most people thought oh here we go...Evra up to his old tricks again. Suarez could easily have played along with that and this would have been over with a month ago. Why did he make life difficult for himself if he had actually racially abused him?

He clearly did nothing and even if he did, WHICH HE DIDNT, he was just saying mate or darling or something, but he didnt say it anyway, and if he did it was because he didnt know what he was saying or was just saying mate to evra who he well likes, Why do you argue this? You know in English, you can full well say a word like mate or darling sarcastically (look at the bolded bit at the top for example), the same applies to what Suarez said and of course he wasn't trying to be endearing. You're just saying this to ridicule his defense


i bet you can see him smiling in the exchanges, if there were any, but there werent cos nothing even happened, and even if it did and he said it and meant it bad, which he didnt obv, i dont care because hes ace and this is all just a government stitch up run by Fergie and suarez and the FA bre. Gemme. Something did happen, the reason Suarez was smiling is probably cos he referred to Evra as a pussy. If he referred to him in racist terms smiling is a strange way to follow that up. Look at john Terry's facial expressions after his comments, can you imagine him smiling afterwards?
[/quote]
[/quote]Hahahahahaha.
[/quote]

Wait. I'm missing something. You should know two people have already jumped off a cliff, for this poor attempt at make a fool out of dantes day that's going on.
 
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