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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

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A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1446726#msg1446726 date=1324293868]
We don't need to exercise ourselves about the inner workings of Suarez' exotic Uruguayan brain. He is very good at footie. We don't want him to be suspended. 🙂
[/quote]

Right.

Is that Peter Reid or his dad in your avatar?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.
[/quote]

1. Correct. First of all everyone decided that he used the word "negrito" or "negrita". Then last week after a piece in the papers it was "negro". My stand all through this is that probably nobody but Suarez and Evra know.

2. So as soon as you arrive in the UK you are not allowed to speak in your mother tongue? Strange!
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446735#msg1446735 date=1324294310]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.
[/quote]

1. Correct. First of all everyone decided that he used the word "negrito" or "negrita". Then last week after a piece in the papers it was "negro". My stand all through this is that probably nobody but Suarez and Evra know.

2. So as soon as you arrive in the UK you are not allowed to speak in your mother tongue? Strange!
[/quote]

Your interpretation of 2 is strange. You adapt to avoid causing offence in whatever circumstances you're in. Which is what people around the world do on a daily basis.

You don't see people goose stepping and saluting through the streets of Berlin and arguing that it's not offensive where i come from, do you ?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446741#msg1446741 date=1324294492]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446735#msg1446735 date=1324294310]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.
[/quote]

1. Correct. First of all everyone decided that he used the word "negrito" or "negrita". Then last week after a piece in the papers it was "negro". My stand all through this is that probably nobody but Suarez and Evra know.

2. So as soon as you arrive in the UK you are not allowed to speak in your mother tongue? Strange!
[/quote]

Your interpretation of 2 is strange. You adapt to avoid causing offence in whatever circumstances you're in. Which is what people around the world do on a daily basis.

You don't see people goose stepping and saluting through the streets of Berlin and arguing that it's not offensive where i come from, do you ?
[/quote]
In no way comparable.

That is insensitive and would be frowned upon in just about any culture.

Clearly the same cannot be said for Negrito.
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47188.msg1446748#msg1446748 date=1324294752]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446741#msg1446741 date=1324294492]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446735#msg1446735 date=1324294310]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.
[/quote]

1. Correct. First of all everyone decided that he used the word "negrito" or "negrita". Then last week after a piece in the papers it was "negro". My stand all through this is that probably nobody but Suarez and Evra know.

2. So as soon as you arrive in the UK you are not allowed to speak in your mother tongue? Strange!
[/quote]

Your interpretation of 2 is strange. You adapt to avoid causing offence in whatever circumstances you're in. Which is what people around the world do on a daily basis.

You don't see people goose stepping and saluting through the streets of Berlin and arguing that it's not offensive where i come from, do you ?
[/quote]
In no way comparable.

That is insensitive and would be frowned upon in just about any culture.

Clearly the same cannot be said for Negrito.
[/quote]

The point is we don't know it was Negrito he said and even then that's a word I would avoid using in any given situation in England.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446741#msg1446741 date=1324294492]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446735#msg1446735 date=1324294310]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.
[/quote]

1. Correct. First of all everyone decided that he used the word "negrito" or "negrita". Then last week after a piece in the papers it was "negro". My stand all through this is that probably nobody but Suarez and Evra know.

2. So as soon as you arrive in the UK you are not allowed to speak in your mother tongue? Strange!
[/quote]

Your interpretation of 2 is strange. You adapt to avoid causing offence in whatever circumstances you're in. Which is what people around the world do on a daily basis.

You don't see people goose stepping and saluting through the streets of Berlin and arguing that it's not offensive where i come from, do you ?
[/quote]

My interpretation of number 2 is that if you arrive in the UK you can continue to speak in your own language. Its what you say thats important. If its racist in your own language then you shouldnt say it obviously. If it isnt but you KNOW that it is, in the country you are in, then you shouldnt say it either.

My point is that even if he said something that might be offensive in the UK but not in South America, there was nothing wrong in saying it in his own language if he wasnt aware.

However as you pointed out in no 1, nobody knows what he actually said.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=47188.msg1446678#msg1446678 date=1324291289]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47188.msg1446647#msg1446647 date=1324289328]
This thread is more annoying than the gareth barry one
[/quote]

I agree. Many of us seem to be getting themselves tied into knots about racism. Personally I'm not that bothered whether Suarez was guilty of racism or not . . . I just want him to get off, or if he doesn't get off, I want him to avoid a lengthy suspension. Actually a couple of matches rest wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing as we have worked him very hard this season. 🙂
[/quote]

Oh dear.
 
If we're doing bullet points...

1) Regardless of what Suarez actually said - and I personally don't think he was being racist - I dispute that he actually said it 10 times. Evra's already been cited for exaggeration, claiming that someone threatened to cut his head off during the kick off with the Chelsea groundsman.

2) Evra clearly feels that xenophobia is acceptable.

3) Evra clearly feels that accusing a ref of bias - based on skin colour - is acceptable. Oh to have been a fly on the wall when fergie marches into the ref's room and told Marriner to get the ref's report out because he need to put an addendum in it.

4) I think the FA were hoping that the police would get involved.

5) Since Henry Winter revealed the details of what Evra said to Suarez and Marriner, I think the delay is because the FA are bricking it about how they will look, given the fact that they've sat on this for weeks.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter, does it? It is what the media and therefore the general public infer from the ruling.

He would be booed and called a racist pretty much every where he goes and this will result in situations where he feels the need to flip the bird to the crowd. The FA can then lay fresh charges on him....he needs to flip the bird to the FA and put an end to this story.

If our club or his legal team had any balls....they would prevent that situation from arising. We are already late in acting. He has already been branded as many things, while he should have been recognized more for the awesome footballer that he is....
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
[/quote]

All good points, and the FA seem to have a cast iron case based on their charges. However because of what kingjulian just said, Suarez will have an equally cast iron case for defamation afterwards.
 
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446760#msg1446760 date=1324295812]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446730#msg1446730 date=1324294049]
A couple of points.

1. It hasn't been confirmed what term Suarez actually used.

2. What is and isn't offensive in Spain is irrelevant. The incident took place in the UK.

3. People need to look at what Suarez has been charged with. The FA aren't deciding if he is a racist or not.
[/quote]

I betcha he doesn't.

All good points, and the FA seem to have a cast iron case based on their charges. However because of what kingjulian just said, Suarez will have an equally cast iron case for defamation afterwards.
[/quote]
 
We're owned by Americans now, not a nice family from Liverpool. The second they see the club lose a single cent due to Suarez being defamed, lawyers will be hired and money will be recovered no matter the cost.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1446773#msg1446773 date=1324296808]
We're owned by Americans now, not a nice family from Liverpool. The second they see the club lose a single cent due to Suarez being defamed, lawyers will be hired and money will be recovered no matter the cost.
[/quote]

My suspicion is we've threatened some sort of legal action if the result doesn't go our way, hence the FA looking for more time to assess that before finalising a decision. However I don't see defamation proceedings being likely
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1446761#msg1446761 date=1324295891]
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
[/quote]

Given he was in the UK for the best part of a year, and Holland before that. It's not unfair to think he should know by now.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446785#msg1446785 date=1324297391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1446761#msg1446761 date=1324295891]
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
[/quote]

Given he was in the UK for the best part of a year, and Holland before that. It's not unfair to think he should know by now.
[/quote]

But as you said, no one knows what word he used - yet.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446785#msg1446785 date=1324297391]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47188.msg1446761#msg1446761 date=1324295891]
It is getting stranger and stranger all these discussions. Btw, we know we cannot transport narcotics, guns, liquids more than 200ml and launder large amount of money/cash at the airport. Are everyone one warned not to use the N word before they enter Britain? Is it a compulsory that every foreigner who work in the UK to have a cultural and political correctness seminar/course before they are given work permit?
[/quote]

Given he was in the UK for the best part of a year, and Holland before that. It's not unfair to think he should know by now.
[/quote]

Is the word banned in Holland as well? One year in England(3 months back in South America), in his cocooned existence within the club and Liverpool, he may not have time even to think of cultural adaptations and the nuances. He did say he is only using what other Man Utd players are calling him as well. Why the double standard?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446759#msg1446759 date=1324295790]
And Henry Winter also says Suarez used "negro" as opposed to "negrito".
[/quote]

Please understand that the Spanish word "negro" is not same as the English word "negro". It can have the same meaning but not usually so.

If ever you decide to learn Spanish, you will find that "negro" will be one of the first words you will learn because learning the colours is one of the first things you are taught.

So, when you hear a Spanish speaking person say "negro", it's necessary to translate to its English meaning if you want to understand what is being said.

I don't know what exactly Suarez said but don't get hung up on that word just because it's that word (if that makes sense).
 
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=47188.msg1446797#msg1446797 date=1324298283]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446759#msg1446759 date=1324295790]
And Henry Winter also says Suarez used "negro" as opposed to "negrito".
[/quote]

Please understand that the Spanish word "negro" is not same as the English word "negro". It can have the same meaning but not usually so.

If ever you decide to learn Spanish, you will find that "negro" will be one of the first words you will learn because learning the colours is one of the first things you are taught.

So, when you hear a Spanish speaking person say "negro", it's necessary to translate to its English meaning if you want to understand what is being said.

I don't know what exactly Suarez said but don't get hung up on that word just because it's that word (if that makes sense).


[/quote]

What does "Porque, Negro?" translate to ?
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446803#msg1446803 date=1324298609]
Literally its "Because black" I think
[/quote]

or ?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446806#msg1446806 date=1324298718]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446803#msg1446803 date=1324298609]
Literally its "Because black" I think
[/quote]

or ?
[/quote]

Why, black man?
 
I cant understand anyone who says they dont care if he is racist.
I dont get it.
Fandom doesnt mean you should allow your morals to be corrupted. What if he raped someone, or beat up a gay guy or whatever the fuck ever. Is it not something we should care about and just hope he gets off because hes ace at footie?

Help me to understand this point please?

NB-I AM NOT SAYING HE IS A RACIST. WE DO NOT KNOW THAT YET.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1446811#msg1446811 date=1324298916]
I cant understand anyone who says they dont care if he is racist.
I dont get it.
Fandom doesnt mean you should allow your morals to be corrupted. What if he raped someone, or beat up a gay guy or whatever the fuck ever. Is it not something we should care about and just hope he gets off because hes ace at footie?

Help me to understand this point please?

NB-I AM NOT SAYING HE IS A RACIST. WE DO NOT KNOW THAT YET.
[/quote]

I don't even think we know he's racist if he is found guilty
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1446809#msg1446809 date=1324298871]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1446806#msg1446806 date=1324298718]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1446803#msg1446803 date=1324298609]
Literally its "Because black" I think
[/quote]

or ?
[/quote]

Why, black man?
[/quote]

Could be. Why is actually "por que" rather than "porque"
 
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