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The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

fuckinghell ....

This Is Anfield @thisisanfield 6m
Love how many Mancs are taking the high horse on the Suarez case. Calling someone negro is the same as calling someone caucasian. Or blonde.
 
This thread is starting to make me angry. I'm going to leave it for a while before I start calling people things I'll regret.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444644#msg1444644 date=1324054136]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444625#msg1444625 date=1324053512]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444623#msg1444623 date=1324053307]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?
[/quote]Its not ok to call someone Ni66er because you are 'upset with them' and regarding the FA....well hes admitted to it hasnt he? If they find that he meant it offensively then hes a cunt.
[/quote]

He didn't say n****r. He didn't admit to saying that. What fucking nonsense.
[/quote]Maybe i didnt word that correctly. Anyhoo.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444647#msg1444647 date=1324054280]
Fair enough Andy. I still don't believe what was said was done with any racist intent and no FA verdict from a private hearing will make me think that especially with a Fergie bumchum on the panel. If it was a public hearing in a relevant court of law and the evidence could be properly analysed and he was then proven to be guilty then fair enough.
[/quote]

I don't think the FA need to find any intent to find him guilty. So I expect him to be found guilty unless they're willing to write it off as a cultural misunderstanding (which looks a bit tenuous to me)

My opinion of him won't change on the basis of something said in the heat of a game regardless.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444645#msg1444645 date=1324054172]
If he's found guilty it's because the FA decided the term he used was racist. Nothing else is needed.
[/quote]

What would give them that right? They would need to be very sure of themselves.
 
but if he's found guilty of using a word like 'negrita' as being offensive in the eyes of the FA that still does not mean his intent was to offend. We've been through the meaning of such a word in Latin/Spanish countries. It is not regarded as an offensive term in the slightest there. Ask Vantage. I'm not saying Evra is making things up as he may have be offended but he's a hypocritical cunt anyway - like any black person who thinks its OK to use the word 'Ni66er' as Evra did on that video. Plus this whole episode has been driven by Ferguson - every press leak as regards terms used and other info came from a Manc based journalist. It fucking stinks, the whole episode.
 
The big problem for Suarez is that he used the term in England ... when in Rome and all that.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444654#msg1444654 date=1324054517]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444647#msg1444647 date=1324054280]
Fair enough Andy. I still don't believe what was said was done with any racist intent and no FA verdict from a private hearing will make me think that especially with a Fergie bumchum on the panel. If it was a public hearing in a relevant court of law and the evidence could be properly analysed and he was then proven to be guilty then fair enough.
[/quote]

I don't think the FA need to find any intent to find him guilty. So I expect him to be found guilty unless they're willing to write it off as a cultural misunderstanding (which looks a bit tenuous to me)

My opinion of him won't change on the basis of something said in the heat of a game regardless.
[/quote]

If it's true that the FA don't need to find intent to find Suarez "guilty", that's a travesty and can surely be attacked via judicial review. Without intent there can surely be no "offence" properly so called.

Nor do I accept the "when in Rome" argument. Suarez' English is still rudimentary. Judging him regardless of that isn't equitable by any stretch of the imagination.
 
But he didn't use the term*, if he had called Evra a niggling cunt, Evra could well have accused him of racism too. The intent wasn't there and he didn't use a term that was racist.

I do fully expect him to be charged for this now, but I don't think he's racist, whether the FA think he is or not.


*Edit: well, from what we know so far anyway
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444656#msg1444656 date=1324054875]
but if he's found guilty of using a word like 'negrita' as being offensive in the eyes of the FA that still does not mean his intent was to offend. We've been through the meaning of such a word in Latin/Spanish countries. It is not regarded as an offensive term in the slightest there. Ask Vantage. I'm not saying Evra is making things up as he may have be offended but he's a hypocritical cunt anyway - like any black person who thinks its OK to use the word 'Ni66er' as Evra did on that video. Plus this whole episode has been driven by Ferguson - every press leak as regards terms used and other info came from a Manc based journalist. It fucking stinks, the whole episode.
[/quote]So then he'll be cleared! Right?
The FA will know that they cant charge Suarez on a technicallity and then exonorate Ebjt when there is video evidence showing him call someone a black cunt.
If 'what we know' is all there is then he will be cleared.
What IM saying is that maybe theres more and if there is and he IS guilty then hes a fucking cunt.
And it shouldnt matter who he sinned against or who drove the charges.
I am uneasy with the easiness some are already making excuses for him because Evra 'is a cunt' or because 'the FA are shit'

IF he did it he should be nailed to the wall by the FA as should ebjt. But as ive said we know fuck all yet sooooo.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444659#msg1444659 date=1324055233]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444654#msg1444654 date=1324054517]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444647#msg1444647 date=1324054280]
Fair enough Andy. I still don't believe what was said was done with any racist intent and no FA verdict from a private hearing will make me think that especially with a Fergie bumchum on the panel. If it was a public hearing in a relevant court of law and the evidence could be properly analysed and he was then proven to be guilty then fair enough.
[/quote]

I don't think the FA need to find any intent to find him guilty. So I expect him to be found guilty unless they're willing to write it off as a cultural misunderstanding (which looks a bit tenuous to me)

My opinion of him won't change on the basis of something said in the heat of a game regardless.
[/quote]

If it's true that the FA don't need to find intent to find Suarez "guilty", that's a travesty and can surely be attacked via judicial review. Without intent there can surely be no "offence" properly so called.

Nor do I accept the "when in Rome" argument. Suarez' English is still rudimentary. Judging him regardless of that isn't equitable by any stretch of the imagination.
[/quote]

His suspension would be over by the time any judicial review was ever heard.
 
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
 
Well if there's more then it would change things and thus why does this all get played behind closed doors?
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444663#msg1444663 date=1324055645]
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
[/quote]I disagree.
Wholeheartedly.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444662#msg1444662 date=1324055456]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444659#msg1444659 date=1324055233]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444654#msg1444654 date=1324054517]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444647#msg1444647 date=1324054280]
Fair enough Andy. I still don't believe what was said was done with any racist intent and no FA verdict from a private hearing will make me think that especially with a Fergie bumchum on the panel. If it was a public hearing in a relevant court of law and the evidence could be properly analysed and he was then proven to be guilty then fair enough.
[/quote]

I don't think the FA need to find any intent to find him guilty. So I expect him to be found guilty unless they're willing to write it off as a cultural misunderstanding (which looks a bit tenuous to me)

My opinion of him won't change on the basis of something said in the heat of a game regardless.
[/quote]

If it's true that the FA don't need to find intent to find Suarez "guilty", that's a travesty and can surely be attacked via judicial review. Without intent there can surely be no "offence" properly so called.

Nor do I accept the "when in Rome" argument. Suarez' English is still rudimentary. Judging him regardless of that isn't equitable by any stretch of the imagination.
[/quote]

His suspension would be over by the time any judicial review was ever heard.
[/quote]

Not if we successfully apply for the hearing to be expedited when asking for leave.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444665#msg1444665 date=1324055740]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444663#msg1444663 date=1324055645]
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
[/quote]I disagree.
Wholeheartedly.
[/quote]

That's your privilege. Let's agree to differ.
 
It's actually sad to see how many people are trying to justify it. Whatever the term means, if he used it in that situation he aggressively went to insult him and referred to his race in doing so, just like John Terry. John Terry called Anton Ferdinand a 'black bastard' or whatever, so even if this term he used can be used in a non-offensive way, clearly in a confrontation Suarez wasn't looking to use a term on endearment, particularly when he's referring to his race.

If someone is racist/an a-hole, I don't care what colour shirt they wear, ultimately that's what I'll see them as. Like I said, he plays for Liverpool so I still hope he plays well and scores loads of goals for us, but I don't feel any affection towards him whatsoever.
 
IF Suarez is found guilty and it can be proven without doubt he intentionally used racist insults , then I hope the club and he hold their hands up , admit to the mistake and accept their punishment (although we could debate all day what the punishment should be ) . I also hope he'd acknowledge his want to learn from his mistake and change his behaviour for the better . If he did this then i'd have no problem giving him my support .
I do doubt this scenario will occur though as the club and he have been adamant of his innocence all along .

If the "negrito" scenario painted in media is true then i personally wouldn't count that as racist behaviour , maybe a little stupid and naive of cultural difference but not full racism. If this is what he gets a long ban for then i'd be feel alot of sympathy for him and feel very hard done by .
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444667#msg1444667 date=1324055793]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444665#msg1444665 date=1324055740]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1444663#msg1444663 date=1324055645]
Nobody's "making excuses" for Suarez, Oncy. You make excuses for someone whom you believe to be guilty. What some of us are doing is pointing out other factors which may well have played a part in things getting this far.
[/quote]I disagree.
Wholeheartedly.
[/quote]

That's your privilege. Let's agree to differ.
[/quote]Of course JJ. I think id agree to differ with about 99% of the posts in this thread.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1444626#msg1444626 date=1324053530]
The result has been delayed until tomorrow apparently. I guess that means we had a huge problem with whatever they came out with.
[/quote]

It might mean the other party had a huge problem with it. Or we did. Or there isn't yet a verdict.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1444668#msg1444668 date=1324055830]
It's actually sad to see how many people are trying to justify it. Whatever the term means, if he used it in that situation he aggressively went to insult him and referred to his race in doing so, just like John Terry. John Terry called Anton Ferdinand a 'black bastard' or whatever, so even if this term he used can be used in a non-offensive way, clearly in a confrontation Suarez wasn't looking to use a term on endearment, particularly when he's referring to his race.

If someone is racist/an a-hole, I don't care what colour shirt they wear, ultimately that's what I'll see them as. Like I said, he plays for Liverpool so I still hope he plays well and scores loads of goals for us, but I don't feel any affection towards him whatsoever.
[/quote]

You're a lot more confident about reading the mind of someone from a totally different culture than I would be.
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47188.msg1444672#msg1444672 date=1324055946]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1444626#msg1444626 date=1324053530]
The result has been delayed until tomorrow apparently. I guess that means we had a huge problem with whatever they came out with.
[/quote]

It might mean the other party had a huge problem with it. Or we did. Or there isn't yet a verdict.
[/quote]

Yeah, true, just basing my assumption on what Sunny said earlier.
 
I'm sorry JJ, but I'm not having that. Referring to someone's race in an argument, what else can be intended other than to be offensive?
 
The idea that I have been supporting a racist is revolting.

If the FA were to ban him, then it better be because they have thoroughly examined all evidence and that it can be proved beyond doubt that he is a racist. If they can't then Suarez and LFC should sue the FA and evrything for libel
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47188.msg1444672#msg1444672 date=1324055946]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1444626#msg1444626 date=1324053530]
The result has been delayed until tomorrow apparently. I guess that means we had a huge problem with whatever they came out with.
[/quote]

It might mean the other party had a huge problem with it. Or we did. Or there isn't yet a verdict.
[/quote]

It won't be either of the first two IMO. The time for the parties to express their views is when the evidence is being canvassed. Once that's finished I doubt any delay will be to do with them, unless some important late evidence comes up.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1444676#msg1444676 date=1324056097]
I'm sorry JJ, but I'm not having that. Referring to someone's race in an argument, what else can be intended other than to be offensive?
[/quote]

That's way too simplistic, Anita. Have another read through all that's been written here and elsewhere on the subject of use of the word "negrito" by Spanish speakers.
 
JJ I've deliberately stayed away from this thread, hence it getting to 39 pages before I posted. I've read plenty around the word, how it's used and what it means. But like I said, it's still a word that refers to his race, and like I said John Terry used the term black, which obviously in itself, by definition, isn't an offensive term, but he clearly used it in an offensive manner, I don't see what Suarez has said is any different.

Anyway I don't know why I allowed myself to get drawn into this. I find a lot of the posts on this thread to be really sad tbh.
 
I'm going to take a break from the thread at that point, Anita, because you made your mind up a long time back and are simply not listening, which I find equally sad.
 
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