The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If the situations were reversed, I imagine I'd be angry with Suarez, until I looked into it a bit more. I don't think he was being intentionally racist. And I'm fairly sure my opinion wouldn't change if the sides were opposite and I had taken the time to look into it properly.

 

[themn]

[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1444577#msg1444577 date=1324050645]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444574#msg1444574 date=1324050445]
I wonder what attitudes would be if Suarez played for Man U and this incident happened between him and Glen Johnson ?
[/quote]

You don't wonder, you know.
[/quote]

Do I know ?

There seem to be a few here that "know" stuff.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444579#msg1444579 date=1324050892]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444574#msg1444574 date=1324050445]
I wonder what people's attitudes would be if Suarez played for Man U and this incident happened between him and Glen Johnson ?
[/quote]

To be perfectly honest, if I was presented with the evidence that has been presented to us, I would feel the same way. No way could he be found guilty.

what worries me at the moment is that there is something else there that we havnt heard.
[/quote]

You're ignoring the evidence. And you'll be upset at the verdict because of that

 

[HC]

,kin hell themn.

god forbid fans supporting their players'!

if suarez had kept his mouth shut this would have been knocked on its head months ago

 

[Rosco]

The United Christmas party is on tonight, so the FA will have to make a decision soon so they can arrive on time.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444598#msg1444598 date=1324052108]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444579#msg1444579 date=1324050892]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444574#msg1444574 date=1324050445]
I wonder what people's attitudes would be if Suarez played for Man U and this incident happened between him and Glen Johnson ?
[/quote]

To be perfectly honest, if I was presented with the evidence that has been presented to us, I would feel the same way. No way could he be found guilty.

what worries me at the moment is that there is something else there that we havnt heard.
[/quote]

You're ignoring the evidence. And you'll be upset at the verdict because of that
[/quote]

I may well be upset at the verdict but it wont be because Im ignoring the evidence.

 

[Oncy]

I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444604#msg1444604 date=1324052578]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444598#msg1444598 date=1324052108]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444579#msg1444579 date=1324050892]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444574#msg1444574 date=1324050445]
I wonder what people's attitudes would be if Suarez played for Man U and this incident happened between him and Glen Johnson ?
[/quote]

To be perfectly honest, if I was presented with the evidence that has been presented to us, I would feel the same way. No way could he be found guilty.

what worries me at the moment is that there is something else there that we havnt heard.
[/quote]

You're ignoring the evidence. And you'll be upset at the verdict because of that
[/quote]

I may well be upset at the verdict but it wont be because Im ignoring the evidence.
[/quote]

You've done it for 40 pages.

You don't seem to understand that Suarez admitted to saying whatever it is that was said. What other evidence do they need ?

 

[RedZeppelin]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47188.msg1444602#msg1444602 date=1324052268]
,kin hell themn.

god forbid fans supporting their players'!

if suarez had kept his mouth shut this would have been knocked on its head months ago
[/quote]

You can still support your players while acknowledging mistakes they make , especially if they apologise for their mistake . Infact what does it say about you if you just turn a blind eye to everything bad they do just because they play for liverpool fc ? not much .

But lets be honest , fans are fucking useless ...if Diouf was shit hot for us nobody would hate him half as much as they do now .

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1444591#msg1444591 date=1324051831]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444580#msg1444580 date=1324050908]
Very obviously different. But life is about bias Themn. Bias towards people you want to believe in. I wonder if you'd feel differently about Alex Ferguson if he managed us? You clearly are seeing the issue differently because you're black, and you can thus empathise with Evra in a way that many people in this site just can't, because they've never faced prejudice due to the colour of their skin. Doesn't make Evra right though.

[/quote]


Yeah but surely if you have any level of intelligence you should be able to look above the bias and acknowledge if something is wrong .

And yeah if you've been abused over your skin colour before you can probably empathise more with Evra (if the allegation proves true) but again you should be smart enough to understand why it's wrong and upsets people even if you've never 'felt it' yourself .
[/quote]

Yes, but one might also be more likely to see something as discriminatory, when it, in fact, wasn't. In other words, be more sensitive to such matters, and perhaps even oversensitive.

Suarez's blasé attitude to his saying of the word is telling for me. He could have said he said nothing, and this could not have resulted in so much as a hearing but he didn't. He admitted his use of a term he sees as neutral. I believe that. Themn clearly doesn't. Is it because I'm white that I believe this? Or is it because Themn is black that he doesn't? I really don't know TBH.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444623#msg1444623 date=1324053307]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?
[/quote]Its not ok to call someone Ni66er because you are 'upset with them' and regarding the FA....well hes admitted to it hasnt he? If they find that he meant it offensively then hes a cunt.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

The result has been delayed until tomorrow apparently. I guess that means we had a huge problem with whatever they came out with.

 

[themn]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444616#msg1444616 date=1324053109]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1444591#msg1444591 date=1324051831]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444580#msg1444580 date=1324050908]
Very obviously different. But life is about bias Themn. Bias towards people you want to believe in. I wonder if you'd feel differently about Alex Ferguson if he managed us? You clearly are seeing the issue differently because you're black, and you can thus empathise with Evra in a way that many people in this site just can't, because they've never faced prejudice due to the colour of their skin. Doesn't make Evra right though.

[/quote]


Yeah but surely if you have any level of intelligence you should be able to look above the bias and acknowledge if something is wrong .

And yeah if you've been abused over your skin colour before you can probably empathise more with Evra (if the allegation proves true) but again you should be smart enough to understand why it's wrong and upsets people even if you've never 'felt it' yourself .
[/quote]

Yes, but one might also be more likely to see something as discriminatory, when it, in fact, wasn't. In other words, be more sensitive to such matters, and perhaps even oversensitive.

Suarez's blasé attitude to his saying of the word is telling for me. He could have said he said nothing, and this could not have resulted in so much as a hearing but he didn't. He admitted his use of a term he sees as neutral. I believe that. Themn clearly doesn't. Is it because I'm white that I believe this? Or is it because Themn is black that he doesn't? I really don't know TBH.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't believe Suarez didn't think he was doing anything wrong, I just have doubts.

Why did he keep repeating whatever it was ?

I can't allow myself to dismiss Evra's claims out of hand because of who he plays for, which some here have done.

I'm not "against" Suarez, but I just keep wondering what the fuck got Evra so pissed off ?

 

[RedZeppelin]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444616#msg1444616 date=1324053109]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1444591#msg1444591 date=1324051831]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444580#msg1444580 date=1324050908]
Very obviously different. But life is about bias Themn. Bias towards people you want to believe in. I wonder if you'd feel differently about Alex Ferguson if he managed us? You clearly are seeing the issue differently because you're black, and you can thus empathise with Evra in a way that many people in this site just can't, because they've never faced prejudice due to the colour of their skin. Doesn't make Evra right though.

[/quote]


Yeah but surely if you have any level of intelligence you should be able to look above the bias and acknowledge if something is wrong .

And yeah if you've been abused over your skin colour before you can probably empathise more with Evra (if the allegation proves true) but again you should be smart enough to understand why it's wrong and upsets people even if you've never 'felt it' yourself .
[/quote]

Yes, but one might also be more likely to see something as discriminatory, when it, in fact, wasn't. In other words, be more sensitive to such matters, and perhaps even oversensitive.

[/quote]


Well then the same applies , you would hope they would be intelligent enough to look above their raw feelings and natural bias and consider all the facts etc

 

[Sunny]

I'm wondering how people will be able to not support Suarez yet support Liverpool at the same time during a game. How do you do that ?

 

[EmreChan]

[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444627#msg1444627 date=1324053532]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444616#msg1444616 date=1324053109]
[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=47188.msg1444591#msg1444591 date=1324051831]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=47188.msg1444580#msg1444580 date=1324050908]
Very obviously different. But life is about bias Themn. Bias towards people you want to believe in. I wonder if you'd feel differently about Alex Ferguson if he managed us? You clearly are seeing the issue differently because you're black, and you can thus empathise with Evra in a way that many people in this site just can't, because they've never faced prejudice due to the colour of their skin. Doesn't make Evra right though.

[/quote]


Yeah but surely if you have any level of intelligence you should be able to look above the bias and acknowledge if something is wrong .

And yeah if you've been abused over your skin colour before you can probably empathise more with Evra (if the allegation proves true) but again you should be smart enough to understand why it's wrong and upsets people even if you've never 'felt it' yourself .
[/quote]

Yes, but one might also be more likely to see something as discriminatory, when it, in fact, wasn't. In other words, be more sensitive to such matters, and perhaps even oversensitive.

Suarez's blasé attitude to his saying of the word is telling for me. He could have said he said nothing, and this could not have resulted in so much as a hearing but he didn't. He admitted his use of a term he sees as neutral. I believe that. Themn clearly doesn't. Is it because I'm white that I believe this? Or is it because Themn is black that he doesn't? I really don't know TBH.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't believe Suarez didn't think he was doing anything wrong, I just have doubts.

Why did he keep repeating whatever it was ?

I can't allow myself to dismiss Evra's claims out of hand because of who he plays for, which some here have done.

I'm not "against" Suarez, but I just keep wondering what the fuck got Evra so pissed off ?
[/quote]

Is there any evidence that he did repeat it?

I know Evra says that he did but from what I've read there doesn't seem to be any other evidence that he kept on saying it.

 

[Mystic]

When someone is pissed off, you often repeat the word mate trying to calm them down, if this translation is as literal to the word mate as has been implied, it's quite likely he could have just been saying that in the same way.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1444626#msg1444626 date=1324053530]
The result has been delayed until tomorrow apparently. I guess that means we had a huge problem with whatever they came out with.
[/quote]

We've asked for Evra to be charged with inciting racism.

 

[KopKing]

To my mind, Negro and Negrito aren't hate words, any more than 'Anglo' or Caucasian are. Evra's nickname at Man U is Negrito, by all accounts so why all of a sudden is he offended by it? Suarez is from a culture where there isn't the same angst about race and these terms are used as a term of affection, so this coupled with the fact that the words aren't hate words indicates to me a lack of awareness but certainly not not racism.

 

[Sunny]

Or the FA have changed their minds...

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444625#msg1444625 date=1324053512]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444623#msg1444623 date=1324053307]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?
[/quote]Its not ok to call someone Ni66er because you are 'upset with them' and regarding the FA....well hes admitted to it hasnt he? If they find that he meant it offensively then hes a cunt.
[/quote]

Not Ni663r. Negrita which is meant as small pussy. Get a grip mate. Luis is abusing Evra for being an asshole not for being black. Is that ok?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444632#msg1444632 date=1324053826]
I'm wondering how people will be able to not support Suarez yet support Liverpool at the same time during a game. How do you do that ?
[/quote]I think you would still want him to score and perform and would still cheer when a goal went in, but as though he were mechanical. No love for the man.
To be fair im already like that with him, I think hes a cunt and a cheat and i dont like him. Ive hardly far to leap to all out dislike of the man.
If hes still playing for us I would want him to perform, but ideally I dont think i would want him to play for us.

 

[Dave]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1444632#msg1444632 date=1324053826]
I'm wondering how people will be able to not support Suarez yet support Liverpool at the same time during a game. How do you do that ?
[/quote]

Was thinking that.

I'll support him whatever happens with this case personally. If Kenny chooses to stand by him that'll do for me.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444606#msg1444606 date=1324052730]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444604#msg1444604 date=1324052578]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47188.msg1444598#msg1444598 date=1324052108]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1444579#msg1444579 date=1324050892]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47188.msg1444574#msg1444574 date=1324050445]
I wonder what people's attitudes would be if Suarez played for Man U and this incident happened between him and Glen Johnson ?
[/quote]

To be perfectly honest, if I was presented with the evidence that has been presented to us, I would feel the same way. No way could he be found guilty.

what worries me at the moment is that there is something else there that we havnt heard.
[/quote]

You're ignoring the evidence. And you'll be upset at the verdict because of that
[/quote]

I may well be upset at the verdict but it wont be because Im ignoring the evidence.
[/quote]

You've done it for 40 pages.

You don't seem to understand that Suarez admitted to saying whatever it is that was said. What other evidence do they need ?
[/quote]

I understand that Suarez admitted using a word. None of us know for sure what that word was although there is common agreement that it was "negrito" or "nigrita" or even, as emerged yesterday, "negro".

Suarez, however, maintains that there was no racial abuse intended in the use of the word, and I (maybe naively) choose to believe him.

I also look at the evidence that no complaint was made to the referee during the match despite a claim of being abused 10 times. I also look at the evidence that there are no witnesses amongst the players or the fans, and nothing seen on the umpteen Sky cameras.

The fact that Evra choose to make his claim on French TV directly after the match rather than go to the referee also confuses me.

Thats why I feel that if he is found guilty it will be because of something else emerging that we have not already heard about.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444625#msg1444625 date=1324053512]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444623#msg1444623 date=1324053307]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?
[/quote]Its not ok to call someone Ni66er because you are 'upset with them' and regarding the FA....well hes admitted to it hasnt he? If they find that he meant it offensively then hes a cunt.
[/quote]

He didn't say n****r. He didn't admit to saying that. What fucking nonsense.

 

[Rosco]

If he's found guilty it's because the FA decided the term he used was racist. Nothing else is needed.

 

[Sunny]

Fair enough Andy. I still don't believe what was said was done with any racist intent and no FA verdict from a private hearing will make me think that especially with a Fergie bumchum on the panel. If it was a public hearing in a relevant court of law and the evidence could be properly analysed and he was then proven to be guilty then fair enough.

 

[doctor_mac]

Can this be appealed in a proper court?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444640#msg1444640 date=1324054028]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444625#msg1444625 date=1324053512]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47188.msg1444623#msg1444623 date=1324053307]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1444605#msg1444605 date=1324052727]
I agree with Anita.
As I said earlier. I cant support someone if they are proved to be racist.
If hes found guilty.

I dont care WHO it was too or which clubs were involved. Im not supporting a racist. End of story.
[/quote]

Fair and square. But two small points. First Suarez was upset with evra for him being an unfair cunt, not because he was black. Second, Its the FA.. same people who gave Robbie 2*6 matches ban for nothing. You trust their verdict? Really?
[/quote]Its not ok to call someone Ni66er because you are 'upset with them' and regarding the FA....well hes admitted to it hasnt he? If they find that he meant it offensively then hes a cunt.
[/quote]

Not Ni663r. Negrita which is meant as small pussy. Get a grip mate. Luis is abusing Evra for being an asshole not for being black. Is that ok?
[/quote]I dont really know what youre talking about.
Im saying that if he is found guilty of using the word offensively then hes a cunt.
I dont know if he will be. Im happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But im not sure I buy the 'he didnt mean it offensively' defence, if he was pissed off at him and then AIMED it at him the he WAS using it offensively!? Surely.
Anyway. Lets wait and see.
Maybe it'll all be dropped.