The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1456909#msg1456909 date=1325778438]
And so the media positioning to pardon Terry begins

OllieHoltMirror Oliver Holt



Is calling someone a 'black c....' racist? Spoke to a black player today who said racism is words like 'c..n', n-word, 'w..' etc. Don't know

Hypocrisy. I love the way Gordon Taylor, Oliver Holt and the FA jokers have been piping on about how Suarez needed to be punished for the sake of the "most multicultural" league in the world when the very same people seem incapable of considering the actual cultural nuances of the conversation held in Spanish between Suarez and Evra. THAT, in itself, is as close minded and bigoted as the racism they are claiming needs stamping out. Pure and utter fucking hyprocrisy. As is the FAs retention still of the chairman of Bedfordshire FA who's still employed by the FA after been caught making racist jokes.

Liverpool bringing the game into disrepute? That would require the FA in this country having any decent reputation at all - something they consistently fail at, employ double and convenient standards to and reinforce with constant hypocrisy which will be reinforced when John Terry gets away with what he said even though there's actual tangible evidence. Besides, it's a "reference to colour".
[/quote]

In fairness Sunny that tweet was made in November I think.

 

[monsieurdantes]

OllieHoltMirror Oliver Holt

Is calling someone a 'black c....' racist? Spoke to a black player today who said racism is words like 'c..n', n-word, 'w..' etc. Don't know

oliver holt lacks the necessary mental capacity

 

[livvy145]

[quote author=Markeh link=topic=47188.msg1456917#msg1456917 date=1325778951]

OllieHoltMirror Oliver Holt

Is calling someone a 'black c....' racist? Spoke to a black player today who said racism is words like 'c..n', n-word, 'w..' etc. Don't know

whats the w.. word? my vocabulary of racism isn't well stocked

someone should tattoo the spanish translation of black to his forehead


[/quote]

rhymes with log


Horrible word

 

[LadyRed]

I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.

 

[Jack D Rips]

http://www.mufoundation.org/AboutTheFoundation/TheBoard.aspx

Interesting list of directors

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Thats not what I said anyway. If his black mates are happy to accept it who am I to disagree

I did say I found it strange though that in his explanation for an inconsistancy in his evidence he said it was because he wasnt comfortable using the word n****r.

 

[LadyRed]

You found it strange that a black man was uncomfortable using the N word to a group of white men. Riiiight.


Mystic- I personally hate the use of the term, including when black people use it, but to suggest the context for a black person using it is the same as a white person using it is ridiculous

 

[LadyRed]

Plus Evra looks very young in that video, maybe he's grown as a person?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1456927#msg1456927 date=1325779806]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.
[/quote]

Exactamundo. It should NOT depend on context. We cannot have one rule for some and another for the rest.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456931#msg1456931 date=1325780315]
Plus Evra looks very young in that video, maybe he's grown as a person?
[/quote]

His nose should have grown following his lies had he been pinocchio... 😉

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456898#msg1456898 date=1325777606]
That's what Suarez has claimed from day 1, and I chose to believe him and not Evra who's proven to be a liar.

[/quote]

I might have missed this, but when has Evra been proven to be a liar?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1456939#msg1456939 date=1325780576]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456898#msg1456898 date=1325777606]
That's what Suarez has claimed from day 1, and I chose to believe him and not Evra who's proven to be a liar.

[/quote]

I might have missed this, but when has Evra been proven to be a liar?
[/quote]

Over that incident with the Chavski groundsman, when the FA explicitly found him an unreliable witness.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456930#msg1456930 date=1325780271]
You found it strange that a black man was uncomfortable using the N word to a group of white men. Riiiight.

Mystic- I personally hate the use of the term, including when black people use it, but to suggest the context for a black person using it is the same as a white person using it is ridiculous
[/quote]

Oh I see so you actually think that if a black man was called a N****r, he would go to the ref and say "hey ref he just called me black". Riiiight

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456940#msg1456940 date=1325780634]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1456939#msg1456939 date=1325780576]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456898#msg1456898 date=1325777606]
That's what Suarez has claimed from day 1, and I chose to believe him and not Evra who's proven to be a liar.

[/quote]

I might have missed this, but when has Evra been proven to be a liar?
[/quote]

Over that incident with the Chavski groundsman, when the FA explicitly found him an unreliable witness.
[/quote]

I didn't know that, will have to read up on what happened there.

But then again Suarez has just been found to be unreliable too. So they're both liars. Unless you're making one rule for our players and another for Uniteds?

 

[Judge Jules]

Far from it, I want the same criteria applied across the board. That would at the VERY least have led to Suarez' acquittal on the grounds that it was not possible to be sufficiently sure about what happened.

And there's plenty to be said about the process which led to Suarez' testimony, which I don't want to go over again.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1456944#msg1456944 date=1325780817]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456940#msg1456940 date=1325780634]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1456939#msg1456939 date=1325780576]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456898#msg1456898 date=1325777606]
That's what Suarez has claimed from day 1, and I chose to believe him and not Evra who's proven to be a liar.

[/quote]

I might have missed this, but when has Evra been proven to be a liar?
[/quote]

Over that incident with the Chavski groundsman, when the FA explicitly found him an unreliable witness.
[/quote]

I didn't know that, will have to read up on what happened there.

But then again Suarez has just been found to be unreliable too. So they're both liars. Unless you're making one rule for our players and another for Uniteds?
[/quote]

Gerry Im not sure if you read my earlier post but the point that was being made was that the FA did not allow "credibility" re previous issues to be didcussed. And our solicitor let them away with it. Evra's credibility was an obvious issue that should have been discussed.

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456930#msg1456930 date=1325780271]
You found it strange that a black man was uncomfortable using the N word to a group of white men. Riiiight.


Mystic- I personally hate the use of the term, including when black people use it, but to suggest the context for a black person using it is the same as a white person using it is ridiculous
[/quote]

Are you suggesting Neets that there are different groups of society that have cultural reasons which make it acceptable to use an 'N' word? Because surely that is how the whole problem began, and the FA seem to think that isd not possible.

 

[jimmy]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47188.msg1456939#msg1456939 date=1325780576]
[quote author=jimmy link=topic=47188.msg1456898#msg1456898 date=1325777606]
That's what Suarez has claimed from day 1, and I chose to believe him and not Evra who's proven to be a liar.

[/quote]

I might have missed this, but when has Evra been proven to be a liar?
[/quote]


For me he is as I prefer to take Suarez's word over his, and the inconsistencies in his own version make me think he's not saying the truth.
Add that to the Chelsea incident, the video which shows he's not exactly uncomfortable with the n-word as he claimed to be (not using the n-word in his initial complaint to the ref), the varying number of times he heard the word, and the way he's prepared to destroy (or hurt) the career of a fellow professional, and you'll see why he's a liar for me.

True, I'm not an FA commission who has come to its conclusion after "fairly" handling the issue, but this is my view of him.

 

[LadyRed]

Dear God

I'm too baffled to formulate a response

 

[monsieurdantes]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456934#msg1456934 date=1325780419]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1456927#msg1456927 date=1325779806]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.
[/quote]

Exactamundo. It should NOT depend on context. We cannot have one rule for some and another for the rest.
[/quote]

Slow down and think about why you just said that. Because it does depend on context. It is a complicated intricate dependency. If people lack the mental capacity to understand that and so assume it is not a factor...good luck with that. But don't pretend it is anything more than an assumption you've had to make because of your own limited brain power. Meanwhile, the rest of us with fully functioning brains will not make the same assumption, and we'd appreciate it if you didn't argue with us about the resulting answer. We're right. You're wrong because you're not as clever as us. It's really that simple.

 

[Woland]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456953#msg1456953 date=1325781186]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456934#msg1456934 date=1325780419]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1456927#msg1456927 date=1325779806]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.
[/quote]

Exactamundo. It should NOT depend on context. We cannot have one rule for some and another for the rest.
[/quote]

Slow down and think about why you just said that. Because it does depend on context. It is a complicated intricate dependency. If people lack the mental capacity to understand that and so assume it is not a factor...good luck with that. But don't pretend it is anything more than an assumption you've had to make because of your own limited brain power. Meanwhile, the rest of us with fully functioning brains will not make the same assumption, and we'd appreciate it if you didn't argue with us about the resulting answer. We're right. You're wrong because you're not as clever as us. It's really that simple.
[/quote]

This, but without calling everyone else thick.

I don't know about you guys but I use very different language with different groups of people and different individuals based on my relationship with them.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456946#msg1456946 date=1325780986]
Far from it, I want the same criteria applied across the board. That would at the VERY least have led to Suarez' acquittal on the grounds that it was not possible to be sufficiently sure about what happened.

And there's plenty to be said about the process which led to Suarez' testimony, which I don't want to go over again.
[/quote]

Just reading the Evra case now, it seems they used video evidence to lead them to the conclusion that Evra had exaggerated and was thus unreliable. It looks to me like they have used the same criteria this time, and led them to decide based on what was most likely to have happened. It just so happens that this time Evra is the benefactor(although I hardly think he's benefited from this at all). Maybe Evra learned something from that incident, it's unfortunate Suarez and his advisors aren't as astute.

 

[LadyRed]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=47188.msg1456950#msg1456950 date=1325781105]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456930#msg1456930 date=1325780271]
You found it strange that a black man was uncomfortable using the N word to a group of white men. Riiiight.


Mystic- I personally hate the use of the term, including when black people use it, but to suggest the context for a black person using it is the same as a white person using it is ridiculous
[/quote]

Are you suggesting Neets that there are different groups of society that have cultural reasons which make it acceptable to use an 'N' word? Because surely that is how the whole problem began, and the FA seem to think that isd not possible.
[/quote]

Nessy, it's like someone from Manchester sitting with a bunch of fellow mancs and making nasty joke about people from Liverpool not having jobs and nicking wheel caps or whatever, and saying that's the same as a scouser making jokes about Liverpool. It isn't.

Honestly if people on the forum fail to understand that a black person using the N word has a completely different contextual framework, socially and historically, I really don't know what to say.


Again, like I said, I don't like the use of the word from anyone, but I would never be ignorant enough to think a white person using it is the same as a black person using it; I really can't articulate it beyond it's plain stupid.

 

[monsieurdantes]

If you can't factor in and understand the "cultural aspect" in this case.... then your definition of racism is a simplistic one. Aww it's ok, it's alright... dantes will let you have the word "racism" for that if you want. I'll use some orther arbritary combination of vowels and consonants to describe the actual phenomenon which happens in the world (how about dancism? yeah). Then when you, the FA, and the British media learn to grow up and talk about things which actually matter, we can have a conversation about dancism.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Woland link=topic=47188.msg1456958#msg1456958 date=1325781422]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456953#msg1456953 date=1325781186]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456934#msg1456934 date=1325780419]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1456927#msg1456927 date=1325779806]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.
[/quote]

Exactamundo. It should NOT depend on context. We cannot have one rule for some and another for the rest.
[/quote]

Slow down and think about why you just said that. Because it does depend on context. It is a complicated intricate dependency. If people lack the mental capacity to understand that and so assume it is not a factor...good luck with that. But don't pretend it is anything more than an assumption you've had to make because of your own limited brain power. Meanwhile, the rest of us with fully functioning brains will not make the same assumption, and we'd appreciate it if you didn't argue with us about the resulting answer. We're right. You're wrong because you're not as clever as us. It's really that simple.
[/quote]

This, but without calling everyone else thick.

I don't know about you guys but I use very different language with different groups of people and different individuals based on my relationship with them.
[/quote]

Not buying. The whole point of tribunals like the one Luis Suarez has just been dragged through is to be above such subjectivities.

Anita, NOBODY'S SAYING IT'S THE SAME, OK? We get it. It's different. The point some of us are making is that it shouldn't be, certainly not in tribunals and suchlike where important cases should be decided according to rules which are the same for everyone.

 

[Squiggles]

The other context is Evra isn't playing football, he's just pissing about, being a twat whilst on duty for the French squad.

Not really the FA's concern, nor jurisdiction.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

The deal is that if you change your allegation from being called a n***** to 'negro' because the former is such a horrible word you can't even bring yourself to use it when reporting it to the referee, then the video puts the lie to that. It might seem to make his statements 'unreliable'.

 

[Oncy]

Who knew Dantes was actually crackers?

I thought it was a show.

Still love you Dantes *points at Dantes*

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456964#msg1456964 date=1325781786]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47188.msg1456958#msg1456958 date=1325781422]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=47188.msg1456953#msg1456953 date=1325781186]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1456934#msg1456934 date=1325780419]
[quote author=Mystic link=topic=47188.msg1456927#msg1456927 date=1325779806]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47188.msg1456926#msg1456926 date=1325779696]
I don't understand what the deal is with this Evra video?

Are people really gonna start justifying white people using the N word is okay cos some black people use it? Is that what we're doing now?
[/quote]

Not quite, more like why should a black man be able to call another black man it? It's a racist term, it shouldn't be used by anyone, white, black, violet, whatever.
[/quote]

Exactamundo. It should NOT depend on context. We cannot have one rule for some and another for the rest.
[/quote]

Slow down and think about why you just said that. Because it does depend on context. It is a complicated intricate dependency. If people lack the mental capacity to understand that and so assume it is not a factor...good luck with that. But don't pretend it is anything more than an assumption you've had to make because of your own limited brain power. Meanwhile, the rest of us with fully functioning brains will not make the same assumption, and we'd appreciate it if you didn't argue with us about the resulting answer. We're right. You're wrong because you're not as clever as us. It's really that simple.
[/quote]

This, but without calling everyone else thick.

I don't know about you guys but I use very different language with different groups of people and different individuals based on my relationship with them.
[/quote]

Not buying. The whole point of tribunals like the one Luis Suarez has just been dragged through is to be above such subjectivities.

Anita, NOBODY'S SAYING IT'S THE SAME, OK? We get it. It's different. The point some of us are making is that it shouldn't be, certainly not in tribunals and suchlike where important cases should be decided according to rules which are the same for everyone.
[/quote]

So you have one rule fits all policy on the court-room, a courtroom which represents a society which quite clearly has different rules for different people and different relationships?