Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
So does Evra get banned as well for using "insulting words"?
So does Evra get banned as well for using "insulting words"?
The Suarez/Evra Racism Row
- Thread starter Stulikesdrums
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Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
I'm only 25 pages in and im no lawyer but I reckon Luis was on a big racist wind up and he's rightly been punished for it .... dale negro negro negro in response to Evra threatening to twat him .... dale negro.... go on then blackie .... he's trying to get a slap and then red card for Evra.
That's what i reckon and if he is caught saying it on camera then basically linguistics my ass he is guilty as fuck....
That's what i reckon, as to the legality of it all i don't have a fucking clue but i'll read the rest of it.... After all what i reckon is only important to me personally.
I'm only 25 pages in and im no lawyer but I reckon Luis was on a big racist wind up and he's rightly been punished for it .... dale negro negro negro in response to Evra threatening to twat him .... dale negro.... go on then blackie .... he's trying to get a slap and then red card for Evra.
That's what i reckon and if he is caught saying it on camera then basically linguistics my ass he is guilty as fuck....
That's what i reckon, as to the legality of it all i don't have a fucking clue but i'll read the rest of it.... After all what i reckon is only important to me personally.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1453176#msg1453176 date=1325381378]
I'm only 25 pages in and im no lawyer but I reckon Luis was on a big racist wind up and he's rightly been punished for it .... dale negro negro negro in response to Evra threatening to twat him .... dale negro.... go on then blackie .... he's trying to get a slap and then red card for Evra.
That's what i reckon and if he is caught saying it on camera then basically linguistics my ass he is guilty as fuck....
That's what i reckon, as to the legality of it all i don't have a fucking clue but i'll read the rest of it.... After all what i reckon is only important to me personally.
[/quote]
Well, put yourself in Evra's shoes after having been called that. He said nothing to the ref about it? Or react to Suarez right then. The FA would have you believe he was such a pro and kept under control to avoid being sent off.
Then they get called over the the ref, and he claims he told the ref about it then which noone else heard. How convieniant. Ok. So when he got to within earshot of the ref what made him suddenly forget about it? The FA would have you believe that the ref is such a dominant authority and he took control of the situation. And evra didn't say a word. After being called negro negro negro, and all the rest. Yeah right. And the FA make a point of saying it is not a problem that the ref didn't hear him complain, this doesn't invalidate his statement? Biased cunts.
Then as they walk away Suarez says negro in a non racist way. Evra misinterprets it. A minute later he shoves kuyt and is going nuts. Are you serious? So you call him a negro racistly five times and he keeps calm and then doesn't report it? But then when Suarez says porque negro that is what sets him off? He goes nuts then? Yeah of course. That makes sense. And now the FA make an even bigger point of the word "again", as if to back up that Evra really was making this complaint for the second time. Way to pull that one out of your arse. Biased cunts.
So then when he gets the booking (which by the way, what the fuck happened to Evra being a pro and staying calm to not get himself sent off?), this is when he mentions to the referee about being called black, and the referee hears it. And he goes and tells giggs about it too. Fine.
I submit that there was no use of the word negro in the goalmouth at all. How do I know this? Because suarez isn't a racist. Although the FA would have you believe we all say things in the heat of the moment that we later regret. The only time he said it was after during the incident with the ref. And that is what upset Evra, and that is why he went nuts at that time and not before. And that is why he got booked and then mentioned this to the ref.
This case comes down to two questions.
Did Comolli fuck up his translation?
Or did Evra stay calm when called a negro 5 times, but then go nuts when called a negro 1's as he was being patted on his head?
Balance of probability my fucking ass. As for Comolli is an even bigger cunt that Evra. I know exactly what he was doing. As soon as he heard the allegation he wanted to get his defence in for it straight away. Rather than listen to Suarez, he got it in his head that Evra said the first words "you south american", and then in his fucked up brain he tried to be clever and go ah ha, so Suarez said "you black" in retaliation and that won't sound as bad. So I'm pretty sure Comolli had selective hearing when translating what Suarez said, in order to make it more justifiable according to him. And probably instructed Kuyt to do the same.
Only much later when the definition of the word negro in latin america became apparant from Suarez' explaining it to him, is probably when he realised that he fucked up. And then he fucked up even more by chatting shit about what canal+ had told him. The fuck dude.
Suarez did nothing wrong. But Comolli and Dalglish took it upon themselves to try to invent an excuse to help him. Well more Comolli since Dalglish was just the messenger. And in their stupidity they fucked up Suarez. Made him look like a liar, and like a racist. And now have his fans posting things like "he said dale negro negro negro". I feel so sorry for him.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=48021.msg1453176#msg1453176 date=1325381378]
I'm only 25 pages in and im no lawyer but I reckon Luis was on a big racist wind up and he's rightly been punished for it .... dale negro negro negro in response to Evra threatening to twat him .... dale negro.... go on then blackie .... he's trying to get a slap and then red card for Evra.
That's what i reckon and if he is caught saying it on camera then basically linguistics my ass he is guilty as fuck....
That's what i reckon, as to the legality of it all i don't have a fucking clue but i'll read the rest of it.... After all what i reckon is only important to me personally.
[/quote]
Well, put yourself in Evra's shoes after having been called that. He said nothing to the ref about it? Or react to Suarez right then. The FA would have you believe he was such a pro and kept under control to avoid being sent off.
Then they get called over the the ref, and he claims he told the ref about it then which noone else heard. How convieniant. Ok. So when he got to within earshot of the ref what made him suddenly forget about it? The FA would have you believe that the ref is such a dominant authority and he took control of the situation. And evra didn't say a word. After being called negro negro negro, and all the rest. Yeah right. And the FA make a point of saying it is not a problem that the ref didn't hear him complain, this doesn't invalidate his statement? Biased cunts.
Then as they walk away Suarez says negro in a non racist way. Evra misinterprets it. A minute later he shoves kuyt and is going nuts. Are you serious? So you call him a negro racistly five times and he keeps calm and then doesn't report it? But then when Suarez says porque negro that is what sets him off? He goes nuts then? Yeah of course. That makes sense. And now the FA make an even bigger point of the word "again", as if to back up that Evra really was making this complaint for the second time. Way to pull that one out of your arse. Biased cunts.
So then when he gets the booking (which by the way, what the fuck happened to Evra being a pro and staying calm to not get himself sent off?), this is when he mentions to the referee about being called black, and the referee hears it. And he goes and tells giggs about it too. Fine.
I submit that there was no use of the word negro in the goalmouth at all. How do I know this? Because suarez isn't a racist. Although the FA would have you believe we all say things in the heat of the moment that we later regret. The only time he said it was after during the incident with the ref. And that is what upset Evra, and that is why he went nuts at that time and not before. And that is why he got booked and then mentioned this to the ref.
This case comes down to two questions.
Did Comolli fuck up his translation?
Or did Evra stay calm when called a negro 5 times, but then go nuts when called a negro 1's as he was being patted on his head?
Balance of probability my fucking ass. As for Comolli is an even bigger cunt that Evra. I know exactly what he was doing. As soon as he heard the allegation he wanted to get his defence in for it straight away. Rather than listen to Suarez, he got it in his head that Evra said the first words "you south american", and then in his fucked up brain he tried to be clever and go ah ha, so Suarez said "you black" in retaliation and that won't sound as bad. So I'm pretty sure Comolli had selective hearing when translating what Suarez said, in order to make it more justifiable according to him. And probably instructed Kuyt to do the same.
Only much later when the definition of the word negro in latin america became apparant from Suarez' explaining it to him, is probably when he realised that he fucked up. And then he fucked up even more by chatting shit about what canal+ had told him. The fuck dude.
Suarez did nothing wrong. But Comolli and Dalglish took it upon themselves to try to invent an excuse to help him. Well more Comolli since Dalglish was just the messenger. And in their stupidity they fucked up Suarez. Made him look like a liar, and like a racist. And now have his fans posting things like "he said dale negro negro negro". I feel so sorry for him.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Sharks than Dantes?
Sharks than Dantes?
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453186#msg1453186 date=1325386241]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
[/quote]
haha
There are rumours about everything in Liverpool. I bet you could probably find rumours about Stevie rubbing his dick on a cheese grater before going to sleep, and Woy being a plant for FSG with the mission of lowering the price of the club before the take over.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453186#msg1453186 date=1325386241]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
[/quote]
haha
There are rumours about everything in Liverpool. I bet you could probably find rumours about Stevie rubbing his dick on a cheese grater before going to sleep, and Woy being a plant for FSG with the mission of lowering the price of the club before the take over.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453192#msg1453192 date=1325387217]
Sharks than Dantes?
[/quote]
I used to when i was a kid. Then I saw a documentary of a shark being fucked up by an orca whale. and they regularly get fucked up bullied and toyed with by dolphins as well. and then I saw another documentary about megalodon which just made sharks look pathetic.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453192#msg1453192 date=1325387217]
Sharks than Dantes?
[/quote]
I used to when i was a kid. Then I saw a documentary of a shark being fucked up by an orca whale. and they regularly get fucked up bullied and toyed with by dolphins as well. and then I saw another documentary about megalodon which just made sharks look pathetic.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Ah, just as I though. You're a narwhal man Dantes.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=48021.msg1453193#msg1453193 date=1325387265]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453186#msg1453186 date=1325386241]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
[/quote]
haha
There are rumours about everything in Liverpool. I bet you could probably find rumours about Stevie rubbing his dick on a cheese grater before going to sleep, and Roy being a plant for FSG with the mission of lowering the price of the club before the take over.
[/quote]
Both rumours ive heard more than once.
Ah, just as I though. You're a narwhal man Dantes.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=48021.msg1453193#msg1453193 date=1325387265]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453186#msg1453186 date=1325386241]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=48021.msg1453173#msg1453173 date=1325379466]
At least it won't effect his sell on value to Spanish clubs
[/quote]
You may joke, but there is at least one rumour...
[/quote]
haha
There are rumours about everything in Liverpool. I bet you could probably find rumours about Stevie rubbing his dick on a cheese grater before going to sleep, and Roy being a plant for FSG with the mission of lowering the price of the club before the take over.
[/quote]
Both rumours ive heard more than once.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
If as previously mentioned, an appeal will only be able to fight for a reduction in the penalty and not the entire ban, I'm starting to from my previous belief that we should fight for the matter of principle and justice.
"automatic two-match suspension if a player is sent off for insulting language"
"a sanction that is double the automatic two match suspension for insulting behaviour on account of the presence of the aggravating factor of a reference to colour."
Unlikely for the ban to be reduced to less than 4 matches. As many pointed out, we've got the League cup and FA cup matches coming up. We should explore possibility of reducing the chances of the ban affecting our league run and quest for top 4 finishing.
If as previously mentioned, an appeal will only be able to fight for a reduction in the penalty and not the entire ban, I'm starting to from my previous belief that we should fight for the matter of principle and justice.
"automatic two-match suspension if a player is sent off for insulting language"
"a sanction that is double the automatic two match suspension for insulting behaviour on account of the presence of the aggravating factor of a reference to colour."
Unlikely for the ban to be reduced to less than 4 matches. As many pointed out, we've got the League cup and FA cup matches coming up. We should explore possibility of reducing the chances of the ban affecting our league run and quest for top 4 finishing.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
I just read that report.
I don't get it. The only proof the FA seem to have is that Evra was angry during the game, and that there must be a reason for it?
We should and we will challenge this i guess. They have nothing. It has the looks of a properly fudged investigation and report.
I just read that report.
I don't get it. The only proof the FA seem to have is that Evra was angry during the game, and that there must be a reason for it?
We should and we will challenge this i guess. They have nothing. It has the looks of a properly fudged investigation and report.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453214#msg1453214 date=1325392202]
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
[/quote]This
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453214#msg1453214 date=1325392202]
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
[/quote]This
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
This is the twat who the club hired to represent Suarez
http://www.mccormicks-solicitors.co.uk/staff-profiles/peter-mccormick-obe.html
Nothing more to add to what Ross and Dante's have already said. But if anyone thinks the full reasons aren't legally sound, then he or she is deluded.
This is the twat who the club hired to represent Suarez
http://www.mccormicks-solicitors.co.uk/staff-profiles/peter-mccormick-obe.html
Nothing more to add to what Ross and Dante's have already said. But if anyone thinks the full reasons aren't legally sound, then he or she is deluded.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453214#msg1453214 date=1325392202]
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
[/quote]
No worries, mate.
We have Andy Carroll and now that Stevie's back and Bellamy is on fire we don't need Suarez. Let's sell him to someone in Spain and bring in Darren Bent.... 8)
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=48021.msg1453214#msg1453214 date=1325392202]
Four matches is much more pallet able.
Having said that, regardless of the reason, Suarez has been fooked, so layoff will do,him good. If, IF, we can win games whilst he's not playing.
I think we'll be fine, personally, & I actually mean that.
[/quote]
No worries, mate.
We have Andy Carroll and now that Stevie's back and Bellamy is on fire we don't need Suarez. Let's sell him to someone in Spain and bring in Darren Bent.... 8)
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
The problem for me is that Evra must have misunterpeted the word negro with negre, which of course makes it much worse for Suarez.
Legally sound though? There is absolutly no evidence. To reach that conclusion you'd have to take Evras Word over Luis.
The problem for me is that Evra must have misunterpeted the word negro with negre, which of course makes it much worse for Suarez.
Legally sound though? There is absolutly no evidence. To reach that conclusion you'd have to take Evras Word over Luis.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Evra's statement was evidence, Suarez's statement was evidence, the witnesses's statements were evidence, the videos were evidence, there was plenty of evidence. they didn't simply take Evra's word over Suarez's, they considered the circumstances by reference to the videos and all the statements (i.e. all of the evidence) and found that on the balance of probabilites, the evidence was more supportive of Evra's account of events than Suarez's.
Evra's statement was evidence, Suarez's statement was evidence, the witnesses's statements were evidence, the videos were evidence, there was plenty of evidence. they didn't simply take Evra's word over Suarez's, they considered the circumstances by reference to the videos and all the statements (i.e. all of the evidence) and found that on the balance of probabilites, the evidence was more supportive of Evra's account of events than Suarez's.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Evras statement is evidence and Suarez statement is evidence. The witness statements is nothing more than what Evra told them, which doesnt make them facts or even evidence in my book although the report treats them like that. The videos dont show anything.
Evra was questioned 4 times and Suarez once, that for me was incredibly strange. They had him guilty from the start and has used 115 pages to justify it. Its written in bizzarro world Imho.
Evras statement is evidence and Suarez statement is evidence. The witness statements is nothing more than what Evra told them, which doesnt make them facts or even evidence in my book although the report treats them like that. The videos dont show anything.
Evra was questioned 4 times and Suarez once, that for me was incredibly strange. They had him guilty from the start and has used 115 pages to justify it. Its written in bizzarro world Imho.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
I'd maybe make a point about Smiths role on the panel and him beint impartial due to his close friendship with Fergie. Is that not a breach of the comissions own rules on this matter?
And does it not bother anyone else that language experts said that Evras version was very unusual regarding the words that were used, but Suarez version would be more correct?!
I'd maybe make a point about Smiths role on the panel and him beint impartial due to his close friendship with Fergie. Is that not a breach of the comissions own rules on this matter?
And does it not bother anyone else that language experts said that Evras version was very unusual regarding the words that were used, but Suarez version would be more correct?!
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
words wise, there was the negro/blackie thing
actions wise, there was the 'pinch' on the hand, the hand on the head
frequency of the usage and the manner in which the words were said deemed aggressive
cultural differences’ argument claim, weakened by his actions and changes in statements as well as the conflict between referee's entry in report and Comolli's statment etc.
Pointed out by Chris Bascombe:
Not saying the panel is right, or Suarez deserves it or that the report is fair/makes complete sense but from a neutral's point of view, the points against Suarez certainly doesn't favour him.
Let's wait and see what the club's decision is. Gotta make a decision by 13 Jan.
words wise, there was the negro/blackie thing
actions wise, there was the 'pinch' on the hand, the hand on the head
frequency of the usage and the manner in which the words were said deemed aggressive
cultural differences’ argument claim, weakened by his actions and changes in statements as well as the conflict between referee's entry in report and Comolli's statment etc.
Pointed out by Chris Bascombe:
Not saying the panel is right, or Suarez deserves it or that the report is fair/makes complete sense but from a neutral's point of view, the points against Suarez certainly doesn't favour him.
Let's wait and see what the club's decision is. Gotta make a decision by 13 Jan.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453263#msg1453263 date=1325407088]
Evras statement is evidence and Suarez statement is evidence. The witness statements is nothing more than what Evra told them, which doesnt make them facts or even evidence in my book although the report treats them like that. The videos dont show anything.
Evra was questioned 4 times and Suarez once, that for me was incredibly strange. They had him guilty from the start and has used 115 pages to justify it. Its written in bizzarro world Imho.
[/quote]
And yet they've used the videos as evidence, interpreted through the lenses of a belief that Evra's account is more reliable. They've basically taken a shaky premise (that Evra's account is more reliable), then concreted that into a conversation in spanish, then tried to fit the video evidence into this supposed conversation.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453263#msg1453263 date=1325407088]
Evras statement is evidence and Suarez statement is evidence. The witness statements is nothing more than what Evra told them, which doesnt make them facts or even evidence in my book although the report treats them like that. The videos dont show anything.
Evra was questioned 4 times and Suarez once, that for me was incredibly strange. They had him guilty from the start and has used 115 pages to justify it. Its written in bizzarro world Imho.
[/quote]
And yet they've used the videos as evidence, interpreted through the lenses of a belief that Evra's account is more reliable. They've basically taken a shaky premise (that Evra's account is more reliable), then concreted that into a conversation in spanish, then tried to fit the video evidence into this supposed conversation.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
Hansern: You and I meet in a pub. We have a very public disagreement. We're seen in public gesticulating heatedly at one another before we leave. We go home, and I call you on your mobile and I say: "I'm coming over to yours and giving you the trashing of your life if you don't apologize."
You make a report to the police because you genuinely believe that I intend to carry out my threat. I am charged with common assault.
No one else heard my threat other than you on my mobile. Plenty of witnesses in the pub though, although the exact content of our disagreement, no one could say.
In your "normal" world, no Court could convict me of common assault as long as I denied making a threat, after all, its just your word against mine.
Yet in the "bizarro" real life Courts will routinely convict me. With an even higher standard of proof- beyond reasonable doubt! Why?
Hansern: You and I meet in a pub. We have a very public disagreement. We're seen in public gesticulating heatedly at one another before we leave. We go home, and I call you on your mobile and I say: "I'm coming over to yours and giving you the trashing of your life if you don't apologize."
You make a report to the police because you genuinely believe that I intend to carry out my threat. I am charged with common assault.
No one else heard my threat other than you on my mobile. Plenty of witnesses in the pub though, although the exact content of our disagreement, no one could say.
In your "normal" world, no Court could convict me of common assault as long as I denied making a threat, after all, its just your word against mine.
Yet in the "bizarro" real life Courts will routinely convict me. With an even higher standard of proof- beyond reasonable doubt! Why?
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=48021.msg1453287#msg1453287 date=1325412583]
Hansern: You and I meet in a pub. We have a very public disagreement. We're seen in public gesticulating heatedly at one another before we leave. We go home, and I call you on your mobile and I say: "I'm coming over to yours and giving you the trashing of your life if you don't apologize."
You make a report to the police because you genuinely believe that I intend to carry out my threat. I am charged with common assault.
No one else heard my threat other than you on my mobile. Plenty of witnesses in the pub though, although the exact content of our disagreement, no one could say.
In your "normal" world, no Court could convict me of common assault as long as I denied making a threat, after all, its just your word against mine.
Yet in the "bizarro" real life Courts will routinely convict me. With an even higher standard of proof- beyond reasonable doubt! Why?
[/quote]
The bizzarro comment is aimed at how the report is written, how they've gone through the "evidence" and how they've reached their conclussion.
Your example is much more clear cut than this case though, are you telling me a court would convict you without having said telephone conversation as proof? Iow a transcript as evidence.
In this case there arent any evidence besides Evra and Suarez, no one else knows exactly what was said. No witnesses who heard it first time or any video evidence.
And to further expand on your example, say you called to appollogize, but I say you threathened me. Still convicted after your reasoning?
[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=48021.msg1453287#msg1453287 date=1325412583]
Hansern: You and I meet in a pub. We have a very public disagreement. We're seen in public gesticulating heatedly at one another before we leave. We go home, and I call you on your mobile and I say: "I'm coming over to yours and giving you the trashing of your life if you don't apologize."
You make a report to the police because you genuinely believe that I intend to carry out my threat. I am charged with common assault.
No one else heard my threat other than you on my mobile. Plenty of witnesses in the pub though, although the exact content of our disagreement, no one could say.
In your "normal" world, no Court could convict me of common assault as long as I denied making a threat, after all, its just your word against mine.
Yet in the "bizarro" real life Courts will routinely convict me. With an even higher standard of proof- beyond reasonable doubt! Why?
[/quote]
The bizzarro comment is aimed at how the report is written, how they've gone through the "evidence" and how they've reached their conclussion.
Your example is much more clear cut than this case though, are you telling me a court would convict you without having said telephone conversation as proof? Iow a transcript as evidence.
In this case there arent any evidence besides Evra and Suarez, no one else knows exactly what was said. No witnesses who heard it first time or any video evidence.
And to further expand on your example, say you called to appollogize, but I say you threathened me. Still convicted after your reasoning?
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=48021.msg1453169#msg1453169 date=1325379180]
This is all very, very bad for the club - whatever way you look at it.
[/quote]
I don't buy that, gene. The club's standing by its player until due process is completed. What else could or should it do? I might add that I've been keeping a particularly careful eye and ear open for how this is playing in the media, and after the initial flurry of insistence that Suarez was guilty they've not continued to harp on about it, which has come as a welcome surprise.
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=48021.msg1453169#msg1453169 date=1325379180]
This is all very, very bad for the club - whatever way you look at it.
[/quote]
I don't buy that, gene. The club's standing by its player until due process is completed. What else could or should it do? I might add that I've been keeping a particularly careful eye and ear open for how this is playing in the media, and after the initial flurry of insistence that Suarez was guilty they've not continued to harp on about it, which has come as a welcome surprise.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
If he has said these things then he deserves a ban, but it seems it's still basically one person's word against another's
If he has said these things then he deserves a ban, but it seems it's still basically one person's word against another's
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
The FA have always reminded me of the old Soviet Union. They have "show trials" in which the accused stands no chance of being acquitted. They have offences that do not exist in normal law, like "bringing the game into disrepute."
In the days of the Soviet Union, the condemned man had no choice but to go on the train to a gulag and hope to survive it and get back to civilisation eventually.
I am beginning to feel that unless LFC's lawyers come up with a brilliant demolition of the committee's version of the evidence, we will just have to shut up, let Suarez serve his time and move on.
It's worth remembering that Ferguson can attribute much of his success to persuading his players that the rest of the world is against them. Maybe Kenny can do likewise.
The FA have always reminded me of the old Soviet Union. They have "show trials" in which the accused stands no chance of being acquitted. They have offences that do not exist in normal law, like "bringing the game into disrepute."
In the days of the Soviet Union, the condemned man had no choice but to go on the train to a gulag and hope to survive it and get back to civilisation eventually.
I am beginning to feel that unless LFC's lawyers come up with a brilliant demolition of the committee's version of the evidence, we will just have to shut up, let Suarez serve his time and move on.
It's worth remembering that Ferguson can attribute much of his success to persuading his players that the rest of the world is against them. Maybe Kenny can do likewise.
Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row (continued)
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453299#msg1453299 date=1325415074]
The bizzarro comment is aimed at how the report is written, how they've gone through the "evidence" and how they've reached their conclussion.
Your example is much more clear cut than this case though, are you telling me a court would convict you without having said telephone conversation as proof? Iow a transcript as evidence.
In this case there arent any evidence besides Evra and Suarez, no one else knows exactly what was said. No witnesses who heard it first time or any video evidence.
And to further expand on your example, say you called to appollogize, but I say you threathened me. Still convicted after your reasoning?
[/quote]
Yes, I'd still be convicted if the Court accepted your evidence and completely disbelieved me because I was an unreliable witness at hearing/trial. Which is exactly what happened here, except the FA did not even have to completely disbelieve Suarez, but find that Evra's version of events was more probable than Suarez's. My example was far less clear cut than the Suarez case, but believe me, courts do convict people accused in that manner. Think of women abused at home, who have been threatened by their husbands but with no other evidence. Courts often and legally arrive at conclusions through inferences drawn from circumstantial evidence.
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=48021.msg1453299#msg1453299 date=1325415074]
The bizzarro comment is aimed at how the report is written, how they've gone through the "evidence" and how they've reached their conclussion.
Your example is much more clear cut than this case though, are you telling me a court would convict you without having said telephone conversation as proof? Iow a transcript as evidence.
In this case there arent any evidence besides Evra and Suarez, no one else knows exactly what was said. No witnesses who heard it first time or any video evidence.
And to further expand on your example, say you called to appollogize, but I say you threathened me. Still convicted after your reasoning?
[/quote]
Yes, I'd still be convicted if the Court accepted your evidence and completely disbelieved me because I was an unreliable witness at hearing/trial. Which is exactly what happened here, except the FA did not even have to completely disbelieve Suarez, but find that Evra's version of events was more probable than Suarez's. My example was far less clear cut than the Suarez case, but believe me, courts do convict people accused in that manner. Think of women abused at home, who have been threatened by their husbands but with no other evidence. Courts often and legally arrive at conclusions through inferences drawn from circumstantial evidence.
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