The incredible Xabi Alonso thread 2009.

[mark1975]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913244#msg913244 date=1248768810]
Well exactly. Alonso has been a big part of the way we play for 5 seasons and replacing him will mean a transitional period. At least with Gerrard we know what we're getting, especially as the vast majority of teams in the league are shite.

Buy a top 2nd striker I say.
[/quote]

It's definitely an option as Spidey said, I just feel the cons outweight the pros.

* Breaking up the partnership between Gerrard and Torres, having Stevie 10- 20 yards deeper limits his link up play and therefore the ammunition supplied to Torres.

* Putting a striker uptop, as we've seen, constricts the space Torres has, if there's one thing Torres thrives on it's space, which is why he always looks more threatening and comfortable as a lone striker.

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33578.msg913239#msg913239 date=1248768536]
a more mobile central midfielder who'll weigh in with the few goals that have been sorely missing from that area of the side..
[/quote]

Like Stevie?

 

[mark1975]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913246#msg913246 date=1248769020]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33578.msg913239#msg913239 date=1248768536]
a more mobile central midfielder who'll weigh in with the few goals that have been sorely missing from that area of the side..
[/quote]

Like Stevie?

[/quote]

But we'd be taking it away from one area and adding less to another.

He scores more goals in an advanced role. We put him deeper and we're essentially losing 5-10 goals a season. What's the point?

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33578.msg913245#msg913245 date=1248768986]
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913244#msg913244 date=1248768810]
Well exactly. Alonso has been a big part of the way we play for 5 seasons and replacing him will mean a transitional period. At least with Gerrard we know what we're getting, especially as the vast majority of teams in the league are shite.

Buy a top 2nd striker I say.
[/quote]

It's definitely an option as Spidey said, I just feel the cons outweight the pros.

* Breaking up the partnership between Gerrard and Torres, having Stevie 10- 20 yards deeper limits his link up play and therefore the ammunition supplied to Torres.

* Putting a striker uptop, as we've seen, constricts the space Torres has, if there's one thing Torres thrives on it's space, which is why he always looks more threatening and comfortable as a lone striker.
[/quote]

Not so much a striker, more an attacking midfielder who excels in between the lines. Gerrard can still link up with Torres coming from deep. Lets face it, we spend most home games camped in the other teams half.

 

[mark1975]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913248#msg913248 date=1248769142]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33578.msg913245#msg913245 date=1248768986]
[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913244#msg913244 date=1248768810]
Well exactly. Alonso has been a big part of the way we play for 5 seasons and replacing him will mean a transitional period. At least with Gerrard we know what we're getting, especially as the vast majority of teams in the league are shite.

Buy a top 2nd striker I say.
[/quote]

It's definitely an option as Spidey said, I just feel the cons outweight the pros.

* Breaking up the partnership between Gerrard and Torres, having Stevie 10- 20 yards deeper limits his link up play and therefore the ammunition supplied to Torres.

* Putting a striker uptop, as we've seen, constricts the space Torres has, if there's one thing Torres thrives on it's space, which is why he always looks more threatening and comfortable as a lone striker.
[/quote]

Not so much a striker, more an attacking midfielder who excels in between the lines. Gerrard can still link up with Torres coming from deep. Lets face it, we spend most home games camped in the other teams half.
[/quote]

Like I said, it's an option, but the thing that's really seen us come on in the last two seasons is a balanced, consistent lineup and the partnership between Gerrard and Torres.

No point fixing something that ain't broken. It's the most potent area of the side, we'd essentially be creating two problems from one.

 

[mark1975]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Besides, how many goalscoring/providing link players are there out there? I'd say they're more scarce than good quality central midfielders.

 

[keniget]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

If we sell Alonso we need another central midfielder regardless of whether is Gerrard is moved there.

I wouldn't want to start the season with Gerrard, Masher and Lucas as our only senior options. It's not good enough.

 

[Farkmaster]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg913251#msg913251 date=1248769410]
If we sell Alonso we need another central midfielder regardless of whether is Gerrard is moved there.

I wouldn't want to start the season with Gerrard, Masher and Lucas as our only senior options. It's not good enough.
[/quote]

Leaving Gerrard where he is will also prolongue his career over sticking him at CM.

 

[Squiggles]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I can't decide which is the way to go, as it largely depends on transfer targets and who is available.

For instance, if David Villa was available for around the Alonso fee I'd have no problems putting Gerrard back in the middle.

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Lucas can slot in when we want to revert back to the Torres/Gerrard combo. He's shown he can do it before. While that particular system works well, I see more problems in replacing Alonso than utilising Stevie in a deeper role. Lets not forget that he's a world class central midfielder, despite the myths about his so called lack of discipline. If Rafa wants him to work to a gameplan he will.

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33578.msg913252#msg913252 date=1248769596]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg913251#msg913251 date=1248769410]
If we sell Alonso we need another central midfielder regardless of whether is Gerrard is moved there.

I wouldn't want to start the season with Gerrard, Masher and Lucas as our only senior options. It's not good enough.
[/quote]

Leaving Gerrard where he is will also prolongue his career over sticking him at CM.

[/quote]

I'm not advocating it as a long term option. Just while we bring through another CM and tinker with our philosophy. Anyone coming in for Xabi will take time to settle and adust to Rafa's methods.

 

[Oncy]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I agree with Squiggles. It depends who is available.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

the further up the pitch gerrard is the more damage he can cause, moving him deeper bogging him down with defensive chores will hamper his ability to hurt teams. also playing him in an advanced position will prolong his career. if the choice is bringing in a central midfielder (if rafa feels lucas can't do the job) or a forward bring in a CM.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913283#msg913283 date=1248772896]
the further up the pitch gerrard is the more damage he can cause, moving him deeper bogging him down with defensive chores will hamper his ability to hurt teams. also playing him in an advanced position will prolong his career. if the choice is bringing in a central midfielder (if rafa feels lucas can't do the job) or a forward bring in a CM.
[/quote]

So Gerrard can't hurt teams from CM? You talk as though we're constantly camped in our own half and under the cosh. That's ignoring the fact that Stevie's defensive duties are vastly underrated. He's also matured as a player and can play a variety of roles if need be.

 

[Atlas]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]

If A.N Other comes in and scores more then yes we can afford that

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg913286#msg913286 date=1248773080]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]

If A.N Other comes in and scores more then yes we can afford that
[/quote]

we KNOW gerrard can score goals in an advanced position, we're speculating another can come in and get as much.

 

[Oncy]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]I expect our wingers to do that.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913285#msg913285 date=1248773078]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913283#msg913283 date=1248772896]
the further up the pitch gerrard is the more damage he can cause, moving him deeper bogging him down with defensive chores will hamper his ability to hurt teams. also playing him in an advanced position will prolong his career. if the choice is bringing in a central midfielder (if rafa feels lucas can't do the job) or a forward bring in a CM.
[/quote]

So Gerrard can't hurt teams from CM? You talk as though we're constantly camped in our own half and under the cosh. That's ignoring the fact that Stevie's defensive duties are vastly underrated. He's also matured as a player and can play a variety of roles if need be.
[/quote]

the stats speak for themselves, gerrard goals spike when he is moved from the center of midfield either to the right or in an advanced position. I have no data to hand if our results spike as well but you'd have to assume they do.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg913288#msg913288 date=1248773264]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]I expect our wingers to do that.
[/quote]

no you don't 😛

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]

I hate this one dimensional footy manager logic. Are you telling me if we brought in someone like Villa and dropped Gerrard back alongside one of the best DM in the world we'd be any worse off?

You under estimate the ability of players and teams to adapt to new systems and tactics.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

imho yossi's best position is behind the out and out striker, he has an eye for a disguised pass and I'd bet any oney he'd help us break down stubborn teams, but would he score as much as gerrard...I DOUBT it.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913292#msg913292 date=1248773338]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]

I hate this one dimensional footy manager logic. Are you telling me if we brought in someone like Villa and dropped Gerrard back alongside one of the best DM in the world we'd be any worse off?

You under estimate the ability of players and teams to adapt to new systems and tactics.
[/quote]

I deal with what we have not what we might get. here's an idea, if we spring for essien then gerrard can stay were he is, problem solved. see I can play too.

 

[Billy Bollocks]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913289#msg913289 date=1248773281]


the stats speak for themselves, gerrard goals spike when he is moved from the center of midfield either to the right or in an advanced position. I have no data to hand if our results spike as well but you'd have to assume they do.
[/quote]

I don't care about stats. Needs must. We can't rely on Gerrard to score our goals forever and I'd expect, no demand, whoever came in, plus others, to take more responsiblity and start chipping in with more.

 

[Squiggles]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I agree. It's far too simplistic.

And 2 years ago 90% of fans were begging Bentez to put Gerrard back at CM, a few years on and it's completely frowned upon. Odd times.

Gerrard's shown he can link up with Torres in a 4-4-2, a fact which often gets lost in this debate.

 

[Atlas]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33578.msg913288#msg913288 date=1248773264]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913284#msg913284 date=1248772999]
dropping gerrard into the center of midfield will in all likelihood knock ten goals of his overall tally for the season. can we afford that?
[/quote]I expect our wingers to do that.
[/quote]

I think it's all about the scoring goals from everywhere thing.
If Gerrard is moved to the middle, he will no doubt still produce goals although obviously not as much.
A good winger/left of the three to be brought with the Alonso cash (unless that money is used to pay the 60 odd million pounds in debt we have to give back) will plug the hole left by Gerrard.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913295#msg913295 date=1248773533]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg913289#msg913289 date=1248773281]


the stats speak for themselves, gerrard goals spike when he is moved from the center of midfield either to the right or in an advanced position. I have no data to hand if our results spike as well but you'd have to assume they do.
[/quote]

I don't care about stats. Needs must. We can't rely on Gerrard to score our goals forever and I'd expect, no demand, whoever came in, plus others, to take more responsiblity and start chipping in with more.
[/quote]

gerrard isn't going to score goals for us forever all the more reason to milk those goals while we can.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33578.msg913297#msg913297 date=1248773562]
I agree. It's far too simplistic.

And 2 years ago 90% of fans were begging Bentez to put Gerrard back at CM, a few years on and it's completely frowned upon. Odd times.

Gerrard's shown he can link up with Torres in a 4-4-2, a fact which often gets lost in this debate.
[/quote]

I wasn't, in fact I suggest years ago that rafa put gerrard in an advanced position and relieve him of defensive duties and I've been spectacularly vindicated. let's not try and reinvent the wheel. the gerrard/torres axis work...brilliantly, we all saw what happended when rafa tried to break it up last season.

 

[Delinquent]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Billy Bollocks link=topic=33578.msg913279#msg913279 date=1248772756]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33578.msg913252#msg913252 date=1248769596]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg913251#msg913251 date=1248769410]
If we sell Alonso we need another central midfielder regardless of whether is Gerrard is moved there.

I wouldn't want to start the season with Gerrard, Masher and Lucas as our only senior options. It's not good enough.
[/quote]

Leaving Gerrard where he is will also prolongue his career over sticking him at CM.

[/quote]

I'm not advocating it as a long term option. Just while we bring through another CM and tinker with our philosophy. Anyone coming in for Xabi will take time to settle and adust to Rafa's methods.
[/quote]

The same is true for whoever we bring in to fill Stevie's current position. It's swings and roundabouts really.

I think I'd marginally prefer to bring in a replacement midfielder and adapt our play accordingly. A like-for-like replacement isn't available so I'd sooner we tried to make the best of things and make a positive change to our formation. Tell Masher to hold his position deep and get in a player like Aquilani or Martinez who can break from midfield and offer a little more in the final third.

 

[Oncy]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

This off season is microanalyzation central.

Reina
insua
agger
carragher
johnson
mascherano
alonso
riera
gerrard
kuyt
torres.

If alonso leaves we either play gerrard deeper and buy a forward (unlikely) or we buy a cm to replace Alonso and if we have the ching we get a spare striker and a 4th choice centre back.

Bench-cavalieri, babel, voronin, aurelio, lucas, yossi, (eg) distin.

We're talking ourself round in circles here. We're 9/10ths perfect as is.