The incredible Xabi Alonso thread 2009.

[LadyRed]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33578.msg902387#msg902387 date=1247045133]

There are some similarities, but there are also seem to be some glaring differences, Neets.

Real have not made any firm offer which has been rejected by the club; all we hear about is how they're keen on x figure but Rafa is only agreeable to y figure.

I apologise if there has been one tho; I may have missed it in this million posts thread ;D

What is particularly galling is that Real didn't do any of this tapping up shit with Milan, Lyon or The Scum.

But we get it because we're seen as a soft touch.

Thats the main reason I'm disgusted with them, truth be told.
[/quote]

Uh? Real *didn't* tap up Ronaldo? Are you serious?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg902380#msg902380 date=1247044627]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=33578.msg902091#msg902091 date=1246997076]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg902082#msg902082 date=1246996471]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg901986#msg901986 date=1246982983]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg901951#msg901951 date=1246979060]
This is really is the Barry Saga all over again; with us on the other end.
[/quote]

You've argued yourself into a self-masochistic tizzy over this. Why are you so obsessed with this 'karma' idea? The Barry offer was a run-of-the-mill transfer bid. He said he wanted to move on to play in the Champions League, we bid, we were rebuffed (with O'Neill desperately trying to claim that one remark wrongly reported by LFCTV was a huge tapping up affair). It wasn't part of some megalomaniacal galactico project, with regular attempts to bypass the club and unsettle the player and endless planted stories in the press. Unless you think every transfer is 'karma' I'd drop the allusion.
[/quote]

Eh, pipe down, I'm not 'obsessed' or 'illusioned' with the idea of karma, it was actually a throw away comment, that I don't even really believe.

However, I do think the point about us and Barry last summer is one worth making. People are upset with Madrid and their bully-boy tactics, but Madrid have done nothing that we ourselves were not guilty of doing last year.
[/quote]

We used bully boy tactics to try and get Barry? What you mean like make official approaches through the club?

Comparing us to Real in this does make you look slightly naive here Anita. No that you should or will be bothered.
[/quote]

I'm not bothered, obviously.

But please, explain to me how Madrids conduct is any different to ours?

In both cases, the player in question has not been for sale, the buying club still persists to talk about wanting to buy that player, the selling club names an above the odds price, buying club goes back with an offer that's considerably lower. Repeat cycle several times over the summer.
[/quote]

It's almost exactly the same, but as Avvy points out as far as we know no firm offer has been made, just Real's usual tactics of negotiating through the press, which is something else strikingly similar to the Barry case.

regards

 

[Y1]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

wow. 65 pages of gesticulations, expectations, estimations, negotiations, arbitration, and it is still not finalized.

I say get on. Pay up Real and Xabi go or just say you stay.

 

[LadyRed]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg902396#msg902396 date=1247045888]
real madrid -
we're going now...
we're off...
don't try and stop us now...
we're almost at the door...
nothing you say will stop us...
nothing at all...
our foot is half out the door...
when we're gone we're not coming back...
never ever...
we're almost gone...
[/quote]

Like I said, all part of the bargaining process.

 

[spider-Neil]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg902404#msg902404 date=1247046523]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33578.msg902396#msg902396 date=1247045888]
real madrid -
we're going now...
we're off...
don't try and stop us now...
we're almost at the door...
nothing you say will stop us...
nothing at all...
our foot is half out the door...
when we're gone we're not coming back...
never ever...
we're almost gone...
[/quote]

Like I said, all part of the bargaining process.
[/quote]

seems a little stupid to me. we don't want to sell and don't need to sell, xabi has three years left on his contract so no chance of a bosman. we're in a very strong position, we can give them a price and if they don't like it then walk. if this is a barganing tactic it's laughable.

liverpool - 30 mil
real - 25 mil
liverpool - 30 mil
real - 26 mil
liverpool - 30 mil
real - 26.5 mil
liverpool - 30 mil
real...
liverpool...
real...
liverpool...
real - 27 mil
liverpool - 30 mil

 

[LadyRed]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

How strong a position we're in is determined by Alonso himself. If he wants to go, then it weakens our hand a little bit; we won't want to keep a player who doesn't want to play for us, and niether should we.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg902406#msg902406 date=1247047165]
How strong a position we're in is determined by Alonso himself. If he wants to go, then it weakens our hand a little bit; we won't want to keep a player who doesn't want to play for us, and niether should we.
[/quote]

Equally though, Xabi won't want to risk souring his relationship with the supporters and then having to stay another season, as Barry did at Villa - which is precisely why he's not come out and asked for a transfer. That and the loyalty bonus, anyway.

 

[doctor_mac]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

And- as has been frequently mentioned, the fact that the WC is looming means all international players will be attempting to prove themselves, and we shouldn't worry about a stroppy loss of form from platers who don't get their dream move.

You never know, even Babel might extract the digit.

 

[Atlas]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

And then he will leave next summer.
At least it gives us time to find a replacement, or if both he and Mascher stay we are really much more likely to win the league

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg902390#msg902390 date=1247045386]
Well, they've obviously enquired with the club. There is little point in putting a bid in for 20M if you've been told 40M... or is there?
[/quote]

Depends on how badly he wanted to leave, but my point is when the fee was set they either paid up or left.

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Anita link=topic=33578.msg902400#msg902400 date=1247045991]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33578.msg902387#msg902387 date=1247045133]

There are some similarities, but there are also seem to be some glaring differences, Neets.

Real have not made any firm offer which has been rejected by the club; all we hear about is how they're keen on x figure but Rafa is only agreeable to y figure.

I apologise if there has been one tho; I may have missed it in this million posts thread ;D

What is particularly galling is that Real didn't do any of this tapping up shit with Milan, Lyon or The Scum.

But we get it because we're seen as a soft touch.

Thats the main reason I'm disgusted with them, truth be told.
[/quote]

Uh? Real *didn't* tap up Ronaldo? Are you serious?
[/quote]

Quite.

Granted, I worded it poorly..

They did everything they could to get him to come but when the fee was set, they paid up.

They didn't continue to try to drive the price down.

They also didn't try to pad the deal with their rejects.

 

[gkmacca]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

 

[Oncy]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]What about those of us that trust the manager and by definition the club to get it right and just want it over and done with, and truth be told dont care in the least if he stays or goes, and are happy to be 'the fan' while people who work for the club control transfer dealings?



Just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming...

 

[Peatcheo]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]

Your Barry point is void as the player wanted to leave, as far as we know Xabi is happy, when a player wants to leave of course the buying club are going to act in this way.

 

[cochyn]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Asim link=topic=33578.msg902418#msg902418 date=1247049342]
And then he will leave next summer.
At least it gives us time to find a replacement, or if both he and Mascher stay we are really much more likely to win the league
[/quote]

And if we were to win the league then that may change there mind about staying as well!!

 

[Spionkop69]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=keniget link=topic=33578.msg902390#msg902390 date=1247045386]
Well, they've obviously enquired with the club. There is little point in putting a bid in for 20M if you've been told 40M... or is there?
[/quote]

Why not? Everton have done that regularly!

 

[StevieM]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

As far as I'm aware Alonso has not put in any sort of transfer request. He's been distinctly vague about his future, but nothing else.

All this talk about whoring him round Europe. From my recollection Juventes & Arsenal were the only 2 clubs mentioned and both didn't want toi pay the $15 fee Liverpool set.

That fee was based on a few indifferent seasons and you know what, for what ever reason it seemed like the kick up the arse he needed and he performed marvellously last season, hence the dramatic increase in his value.

Real Madrid should quit whinging. They're the onese inflating the market and if Lasanna Diara is worth anywhere near the 18m the stumped up for him then they can double it for a much better player in Alonso.

We have an excellent side put together adn we are right to not consider breaking it up unless we get more than adequate financial compensation for it.

Same as any other team that doesn't want to loose one of their best players.

The difference between our behaviour last year over Baerry and Real's behaviour this year, is that we actually followed up with firm bids that were then rejected until we then decided not to meet Villa's valuation. Real want to do business was us on their terms because they've screwed us over before getting McManaman for free and Owen on the cheap.

And we should treat Barca the exact same way if they try it on any more with Mascherano.

 

[KingDing]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

1320 BST: Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez will target Inter Milan's Esteban Cambiasso and Mathieu Valbuena, of Marseilles, if he loses one or both of his in-demand midfielders Xabi Alonso and Javier Mascherano. Full story: Daily Mail

 

[Wilko7]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Replace one Argentine with a homesick wife with another Argentine. Makes sense.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902438#msg902438 date=1247053578]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]

Your Barry point is void as the player wanted to leave, as far as we know Xabi is happy, when a player wants to leave of course the buying club are going to act in this way.
[/quote]

Macca's point isn't "void" in the slightest, because we don't "know" anything of the kind yet.

 

[Peatcheo]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg902470#msg902470 date=1247058144]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902438#msg902438 date=1247053578]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]

Your Barry point is void as the player wanted to leave, as far as we know Xabi is happy, when a player wants to leave of course the buying club are going to act in this way.
[/quote]

Macca's point isn't "void" in the slightest, because we don't "know" anything of the kind yet.
[/quote]

Barry came out and declared interest and was then courted by us, from the offset he said he wanted to leave, Xabi has said in an interview he is happy here, so until Xabi comes out and says he wants to join Madrid the point is void.

 

[DCH]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I like our firm stance on Alonso. If Real don't stump up the cash, and if Alonso has a good world cup, i don't think his value will depreciate too much even though he's on a 2 year contract.

I think until Real sell off some players will we see progress on their deal with Alonso.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902489#msg902489 date=1247061136]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg902470#msg902470 date=1247058144]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902438#msg902438 date=1247053578]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since. In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive. The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]

Your Barry point is void as the player wanted to leave, as far as we know Xabi is happy, when a player wants to leave of course the buying club are going to act in this way.
[/quote]

Macca's point isn't "void" in the slightest, because we don't "know" anything of the kind yet.
[/quote]

Barry came out and declared interest and was then courted by us, from the offset he said he wanted to leave, Xabi has said in an interview he is happy here, so until Xabi comes out and says he wants to join Madrid the point is void.
[/quote]

There is a point in what you say Peatcheo, but Barry never would submit a written transfer request , Villa said if he did that he could go.
The other point is that until we came sniffing around there was never , as far as is documented any thought of Barry leaving.
The only difference is Alonso has remained largely silent, and it is that silence that is deafening
regards

 

[LarryHagman]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Barry never requested to leave Villa. Fact. The fuckpot wanted his bonus.

 

[Akakabooto]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

*sigh*

REAL STILL EYEING ALONSO SWOOP
Posted 08/07/09 17:03
EmailPrintSave


Real Madrid believe they can still land Xabi Alonso despite accusing Liverpool of being greedy and pricing the Spain international out of a move.

The Bernabeu club's director general Jorge Valdano now says "everything can be turned around" just 24 hours after launching his attack on Liverpool's transfer tactics.

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has been unmoved by Valdano's remarks that clubs inflate fees for players when Madrid are interested.

And with the player still having three years left on his contract, it seems that the only way he will get his move to Real is by asking for a transfer - or if the Spanish club meet a £35million-plus price tag.

Alonso wants his future sorted out before he is due to return to training at Liverpool on July 19, and Madrid have made it clear they also want a speedy solution and will start to look elsewhere if there is no breakthrough in the next fortnight.

Valdano's original comments were made in a Madrid newspaper article, and his claims that a deal could still be brokered were made in a Radio Marca interview.

In that same interview he claimed that Real were no longer interested in Valencia's David Villa, Arsenal's Cesc Fabregas or Inter Milan's Maicon.

Madrid have already signed four big-name players, and are still in the market for more - although at more modest prices than they paid for Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka.

Valdano said: "Everyone knows that Alonso is a player that we have always been interested in.

"He is someone that can organise and is in a phase of his career where he has matured.

"There was a rough figure put forward, but in recent days that has gone up and the price is now too high for our tastes and, therefore, we see the player further away now.

"But everything can be turned back around."

Liverpool have agreed a deal to bring Paris St Germain full-back Chris Mavinga to the club on a three-year contract. The youngster is a French under-18 international.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

I think we'll sell him in the end.

It's been going on for so long that I'm not even upset anymore. Just bored of it all.

 

[ILD]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Accusing Liverpool of being greedy and pricing the Spain international out of a move.

Are they serious? Yeah you're right we are being greedy, here ye can him for 20million.

 

[Mystic]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

Greedy?! Pfft do Real think it's the god given right to get every player they want, Liverpool don't want to sell and so there saying if you want him that bad cough up over the odds, it's just like with any business, if i didn't want to move house i wouldn't sell it for the market rate.

They talk about us as if we're a small club, news for you Real, we're just as big a club as you are, 4-0 remember.

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

So far we have a 100% record against them on the pitch.  With a bit of luck we'll keep that momentum going off the pitch too, the cheeky f'ckers.

 

[Peatcheo]

Re: Xabi Alonso will stay at Anfield, says Rafa Benitez

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=33578.msg902517#msg902517 date=1247066011]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902489#msg902489 date=1247061136]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=33578.msg902470#msg902470 date=1247058144]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=33578.msg902438#msg902438 date=1247053578]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=33578.msg902426#msg902426 date=1247050973]
I'm too busy this month to bother about this, but this thread, full as it is with the mood-shifting contrariness that comes from (a) wanting to fetishise pessimism to inure oneself to anticipated pain or (b) wanting to fetishise optimism to ward off thoughts of said pain, was bad enough as an unsolicited display of a disturbingly humour-free person's therapy, but the recent addition of sanctimonious, almost Biblical, 'we're all to blame' wailings is too much.

This is what Benitez said about Barry. I know it's part of the above mindset to regard the manager of this club as not only more stupid than they are but also little more than a brazen liar, but, for those whose feet are still in touching distance of planet Earth:

I want to make things clear over what has happened between us and Aston Villa.
‘I talked to Martin O’Neill about Barry in April but have not spoken to anyone at Aston Villa since.  In the intervening months, all the talks have been between Rick Parry and Aston Villa’s owner and chief executive.  The talks have been pretty good, but they are the ones involved, not me. I was not conducting any talks with Villa about Gareth Barry or with Arsenal about Xabi Alonso. If you want to know about negotiations over players, you must contact Rick Parry.

[/quote]

Your Barry point is void as the player wanted to leave, as far as we know Xabi is happy, when a player wants to leave of course the buying club are going to act in this way.
[/quote]

Macca's point isn't "void" in the slightest, because we don't "know" anything of the kind yet.
[/quote]

Barry came out and declared interest and was then courted by us, from the offset he said he wanted to leave, Xabi has said in an interview he is happy here, so until Xabi comes out and says he wants to join Madrid the point is void.
[/quote]

There is a point in what you say Peatcheo, but Barry never would submit a written transfer request , Villa said if he did that he could go.
The other point is that until we came sniffing around there was never , as far as is documented any thought of Barry leaving.
The only difference is Alonso has remained largely silent, and it is that silence that is deafening
regards


[/quote]

To be fair George during the Barry ordeal there was confusion over who was right and wrong considering that Rafa claimed that O'Neill leaked our interest before we did.