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The holy grail we all chase ........4th !

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RedZeppelin III

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David james of all people talking sense . This whole thing of finishing 4th being a great success has pissed me off for ages .

Has the Champions League ruined football? While some may be salivating over the prospect of watching Barcelona's Lionel Messi work his magic against Chelsea next week, I can't help feeling Europe's most prestigious cup competition is in part responsible for reducing our beautiful game to a cash cow.
While Chelsea fans may dream of defeating Europe's premier team, Ron Gourlay, Chelsea's chief executive, has already admitted he would rather the club finish fourth in the Premier League. Why? So Chelsea can play in the Champions League again next season. Let me get that straight: Gourlay's club are in the quarter-finals of the competition right now and yet all he can think about is reaching the qualifying stage of the same competition next season. That's just madness isn't it? Whatever happened to the concept of playing to win? It seems Europe's most prestigious cup competition is fostering a cynical cult of finishing fourth, otherwise known as chasing the dollar.
A quick glance at the economics would appear to confirm that theory. Last season, despite crashing out of the Champions League in the round of 16, Arsenal still managed to earn themselves an extra £24.7m. Chelsea made the quarter-finals and picked up £36.7m, Manchester United finished as runners-up, earning £43.8m, while Tottenham – in their debut Champions League season and without the same brand power as the others – still bagged £25.6m.
No wonder Arsène Wenger and his employers are happy enough to keep finishing in the top four without having won a trophy in seven years. Arguably perhaps, with the club boasting the healthiest finances in the Premier League, Wenger is the clever one who understands this game for what it is: keep picking up the pay cheques and don't overstretch yourself financially in the pursuit of winning.
Having witnessed first hand the devastating effect that overstretching can have on a club during my time at Portsmouth, I have utmost sympathy for Rangers supporters currently struggling to get their heads around how, just last season, their club collected a tidy sum of £15.2m for taking part in the group stages of the Champions League, while this season they face administration. It was a similar story with Leeds United – Champions League semi-finalists in 2001, they were relegated from the Premier League just three years later. At Portsmouth, we enjoyed our time in the spotlight; the surreal but magical day when Milan – a team packed with stars, including Ronaldinho – came to play at Fratton Park will live long in the memory of Pompey fans. But such experiences come at a price and it all unravelled very quickly after that.
I've never played in the Champions League and I have to admit it does frustrate me every time I think about it, but who would chase after Champions League football merely to tick a box? Maccabi Haifa and Basel players have taken part in the competition and, with all due respect, I wouldn't wish to trade my career with theirs. That is probably down to my obsession with winning. Having been on the losing team in two FA Cup finals, I can honestly say I would rather have been knocked out in the third round. People say it's the taking part that counts, but aside from representing your country at international tournaments I just can't agree.
Saying that, I did have half a chance at some Champions League action after leaving Portsmouth. Celtic were interested in me joining them and a large part of their sales pitch was the lure of Champions League football. Admittedly my ears pricked up at that point. But during the negotiating stages Celtic were knocked out in the preliminary round and suddenly the fixture list was looking more Rugby Park than Bernabéu. In the end I wanted to be closer to home.
Look at the stats and neither the Premier League nor La Liga are quite as competitive as we may wish them to be. Spanish and English clubs boast more Champions League semi-final appearances than any other countries, but their leagues are not the most competitive in Europe. Just two clubs have dominated the league winners' list in England and Spain for the past seven years – Manchester United and Chelsea, Barcelona and Real Madrid. Cast an eye further back and it would seem that, ever since the introduction of the Champions League, English football has suffered in its depth and breadth of competitiveness. While seven different clubs claimed the domestic title in the 19 years preceding the inaugural Champions League season, only four clubs have won that title in the 19 years since.
Compare this to the Bundesliga, which has enjoyed six different domestic league winners since 1992. And it is no coincidence that German clubs are much lower down the pecking order in the Champions League semi-final appearances stakes (currently fifth), not having won the competition since Bayern Munich's victory in 2001. That has much to do with the Bundesliga's prudent financial restrictions on ownership by which fans must own 50% of the shares in their club, plus one vote, protecting clubs from risky takeovers. The Bundesliga also enjoys low ticket prices and record high attendances.
Sadly our own league has become too much about the chase for Champions League football. It is Wenger's model – finish fourth, get paid, stay solvent, but don't win anything. At least it guarantees a future for the club, but I can't help feeling disappointed by it. Just as boom and bust is an unsavoury way to run a football club, mediocrity – as a second-best option – is hardly something to celebrate.
 
Good piece of work from David.

I'd rather Liverpool was in it, but winning trophies is more important, not just participating...
 
The champions league, or the European Cup as I prefer to call it, should be for league champions only. Why call it the champions league if it isnt?
 
Some on thid board were extremely disappointed during the summer window when we were linked witg average players who had played in the prem already and proven to be average or slightly above averave. While others defended that by saying we need the players to get us to 4th place so that we can get better quality players.

I have not seen a worse argument than that in here since i joined.

We have to get the best player for the money we spend.... We are now facing the consequences for not doing that.
 
The champions league, or the European Cup as I prefer to call it, should be for league champions only. Why call it the champions league if it isnt?


I honestly don't know why people care what it's called, or why they think it should just be for league champions, just because the old cup used to be. The whole thing's basically just a response to the threat of a Super League isn't it?

I agree with James that measures should be taken to make our domestic football more competitive as they have in Germany, where I think on the whole fans get a better deal, even if the clubs are hamstrung in European competition. Personally I'd concentrate on trying to weaken the link between the wealth of the clubs and their on-field success, something they seem to do better (though I'm no expert) in American sports.
 
Good piece of work from David.

I'd rather Liverpool was in it, but winning trophies is more important, not just participating...

Winning the top trophies (the Prem and Bigears) is what's really important, and to start doing that again we have to be in the CL consistently, in order to bring in both the income and the players we need. The domestic cups are nice to be going on with, but no more than that.
 
4th got important the day you could earn 20-25 mill for qualifying for the CL. If its right or not you could debate, but I think its made the League more competitive.

The flip side is of course clubs budgeting with CL footy and without it will have a negative financial year.
Getting 4th isnt a success in itself of course, but as things stand CL is the biggest arena and where you have to be as a top club.
 
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