He was a racist?
The Firmino Holgate incident.
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He was a racist?
It's standard school yard stuff.
I agree with Fabio. No doubt Holgate heard the ending of a word sounding similar. Put-a, for example.
Holgate, with the loud crowd and adrenaline pumping thought that’s what he heard.
I doubt he’s intelligent enough to concoct some story where he heard nothing of the sort and in that spilt second thought ‘I’m going to accuse him here to stop me getting a red and it’ll all be forgotten by tomorrow.’
Holgate, with the loud crowd and adrenaline pumping thought that’s what he heard.
I doubt he’s intelligent enough to concoct some story where he heard nothing of the sort and in that spilt second thought ‘I’m going to accuse him here to stop me getting a red and it’ll all be forgotten by tomorrow.’
Jesus, is brexit making England this provincial already? Why is everyone acting like it's reasonable that when a common foreign language is spoken, one loses the ability to understand sounds of any kind, like holy fuck he's speaking in tongues, what manner of devilment happeneth?
Has he really never heard a spanish or portuguese speaker swear before, having played football his whole life? I knew what he said the second I saw the replay, with a pretty basic understanding of spanish, and NON of portuguese, because its fucking exactly what I would imagine he said. It's like if someone was motioning over a plate of pasta as a grandmother kept piling it on, I don't need to speak Italian to guess what non piu grazie means.
Lastly, on the idea that he'd have to be some Machiavellian genius to lie? What, like when a small child's disapproving mother shows up to render summary judgment, and they cry and point at their brother and say he hit me? That fucking stroke of genius? Like when the same thing happens every few weeks with an aggrieved player charging at the cunt who fouled him, then they go down clutching their face?
He's a cunt. I'd guess he knew what he was doing, I can't say it with certainty, but neither could he. He should apologize, and he should be suspended for violent conduct, and neither will happen, because the FA won't want anything to do with it.
Has he really never heard a spanish or portuguese speaker swear before, having played football his whole life? I knew what he said the second I saw the replay, with a pretty basic understanding of spanish, and NON of portuguese, because its fucking exactly what I would imagine he said. It's like if someone was motioning over a plate of pasta as a grandmother kept piling it on, I don't need to speak Italian to guess what non piu grazie means.
Lastly, on the idea that he'd have to be some Machiavellian genius to lie? What, like when a small child's disapproving mother shows up to render summary judgment, and they cry and point at their brother and say he hit me? That fucking stroke of genius? Like when the same thing happens every few weeks with an aggrieved player charging at the cunt who fouled him, then they go down clutching their face?
He's a cunt. I'd guess he knew what he was doing, I can't say it with certainty, but neither could he. He should apologize, and he should be suspended for violent conduct, and neither will happen, because the FA won't want anything to do with it.
Whatever was said to Holgate, the ref must have heard it as he was right there. If he's said the N-word, he'd have been sent off right there and then.
I suspect ref reported to 4th official that there'd been a complaint of racist abuse. Its too serious an accusation to just leave for inclusion in the match report.
I suspect ref reported to 4th official that there'd been a complaint of racist abuse. Its too serious an accusation to just leave for inclusion in the match report.
Like I said, standard schoolyard stuff.
Can I please see the video that enables everyone to determine so definitively every word that Firmino said? Because the BBC footage was inconclusive as far as I could see.
From the Mail:
But Holgate then responded angrily to something further Firmino may have said – perhaps when the television camera’s view of the Liverpool forward was obscured by another player – and after Liverpool’s third-round victory the defender was accompanied by manager Sam Allardyce and director of football Steve Walsh in complaining to Madley that his opponent had used the word ‘negro’.
Hmm, not sure about this one. Sounds like Holgate has misheard that.
But Holgate then responded angrily to something further Firmino may have said – perhaps when the television camera’s view of the Liverpool forward was obscured by another player – and after Liverpool’s third-round victory the defender was accompanied by manager Sam Allardyce and director of football Steve Walsh in complaining to Madley that his opponent had used the word ‘negro’.
Hmm, not sure about this one. Sounds like Holgate has misheard that.
@doctor_mac has this cunt bang to rights.
That's a smart move, one day he thought to himself, 'I've got to get out of this sinking ship. I can go the Coutinho route or maybe the Riera route, nah...I'll just make people think I'm a racist'.
Gonna take them weeks to find an angle, and I'm not talking camera angles.
They're just gonna look for a way to punish us.
I've been certain I've heard something in the past only to realize I was wrong once everyone else told me they heard something different.
I think once that happens Holgate will hold his hands up and shouldn't get punished for that.
He should get punished for the push though.
I've had that happen to me on both ends of the miscommunications. Where you scratch your head and think how the fuck did I hear that or how the fuck did they hear that.
I think most here are being overly critical of him because he plays for Everton and what happened to Suarez.
Do you really think he had the quickness of mind to come up with that plan in the heat of the moment in the split second?
Nah no chance.
He thought he heard it but it wasn't said. End of really.
There are literally millions of people coming up with more elaborate lies in that amount of time every day. What kind of weird childhood and adolescence did you have where you didn't learn to formulate plausible lies that quickly?
Time to go back into @StevieM ‘s closet Dreamy.
Agree to disagree I don't buy for a second he thought 'fuck I was a bit rash there better pretend he called me a n&&&&&" no way
Granted his voice can he quiet muffled through the closet door
Pick any or all of Bored/drunk/taking an extra long dump.
They've done cognitive tests on toddlers, many of whom will instinctively lie or blame another toddler for something they've done (usually taking a treat or playing with a toy they've been asked not to touch). Humans are hard-wired to attempt to avoid culpability for things. So if a toddler can manage this kind of cerebral feat, I'd imagine it is within Holgate's capabilities.
It's annoying how a lot of the papers are running with 'Frimino may miss up to 10 games if found guilty'. I hope the FA deal with this as quickly as they can.
David Maddock (I think that was his name) wrote that Everton backroom staff cleared it up with Holgate at HT and it was all sorted. I think the tweets were posted earlier in the thread.
I presume it was something Holgate heard after puta? I'm sure he has heard the word puta before? You notice it being said all the time on camera when watching football live. First time I remember hearing it was Maradona famously chanting it during the opposition national anthem during the World Cup in the 80's. The word is rampant in the footballing world. For example, Coutinho misses a shot and you'll notice him exclaim 'puta' as the camera pans to him. Therefor it has to be something after that initial exchange or the other option, Holgate has stupidly cried racism. I do understand he might have thought he heard something but he would want to be sure before carelessly throwing around accusations. The ref's reaction and his own players reaction currently lead me to think it must be just him who misheard something or a rush of blood to the head has made him blurt out a false allegation in an attempt to protect himself.
I've no idea how this will be resolved. I can only comment on the info and evidence we currently have. I presume ref and players will be interviewed so it will take some time. I hope Frimino is innocent, because one, I don't want him to miss games and two, I'd hope he wouldn't stoop to that level to insult a rival player. I can see the FA releasing a statement saying there isn't enough evidence to prove he said it so no action is to be taken but doubt will linger and newspaper headlines will still exist to cast doubt.
All in all a very frustrating side story after such a satisfactory derby win.
David Maddock (I think that was his name) wrote that Everton backroom staff cleared it up with Holgate at HT and it was all sorted. I think the tweets were posted earlier in the thread.
I presume it was something Holgate heard after puta? I'm sure he has heard the word puta before? You notice it being said all the time on camera when watching football live. First time I remember hearing it was Maradona famously chanting it during the opposition national anthem during the World Cup in the 80's. The word is rampant in the footballing world. For example, Coutinho misses a shot and you'll notice him exclaim 'puta' as the camera pans to him. Therefor it has to be something after that initial exchange or the other option, Holgate has stupidly cried racism. I do understand he might have thought he heard something but he would want to be sure before carelessly throwing around accusations. The ref's reaction and his own players reaction currently lead me to think it must be just him who misheard something or a rush of blood to the head has made him blurt out a false allegation in an attempt to protect himself.
I've no idea how this will be resolved. I can only comment on the info and evidence we currently have. I presume ref and players will be interviewed so it will take some time. I hope Frimino is innocent, because one, I don't want him to miss games and two, I'd hope he wouldn't stoop to that level to insult a rival player. I can see the FA releasing a statement saying there isn't enough evidence to prove he said it so no action is to be taken but doubt will linger and newspaper headlines will still exist to cast doubt.
All in all a very frustrating side story after such a satisfactory derby win.
So far I've only read that the FA have until Tuesday to charge Firmino if they find enough grounds to charge him, and apart from limited footage of the altercation I don't think much else has been revealed regarding this incident. As much as I would like to be free from concern, 2 things stand out that leaves me skeptical to how this will turn into baseless allegation;
1) In Suarez's case in the past, several testimonies were used against Suarez regardless of the incident also not caught live on camera as they were deemed inconsistent. If I remember correctly, apart from Evra's teammates during that time, Dirk Kuyt's given testimony was either too weak or pandered to the allegations at that time, leading to the Suarez ban. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-case-what-report-said-about-key-figures.html
2) Firmino's sudden mute of social media posts. This is Firmino, who spends alot of time being himself sharing his daily shenanigans on Instagram, but after our win so far, he hasn't even posted as much as an Instagram story or post commemorating the win. To add, apparently he's not in Dubai with the team but instead for some reason is in Cyprus with Allan who is on loan there. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/roberto-firmino-appears-miss-liverpools-14123679
Don't get me wrong, I'm really hoping that Firmino is in the clear and that this was all a big lingual misunderstanding, but judging from the past, as much as we can review footage of the match which is repeatedly limited, we won't know much until the actual findings are presented.
Finally, what makes a potential negative outcome even worse is that it was only a week ago that the club have publicly backed Rhian Brewster against racist slurs so long muted by the FA. IF our own player to be charged for similar offence would be a huge weight to carry and open us up to be hypocrites.
1) In Suarez's case in the past, several testimonies were used against Suarez regardless of the incident also not caught live on camera as they were deemed inconsistent. If I remember correctly, apart from Evra's teammates during that time, Dirk Kuyt's given testimony was either too weak or pandered to the allegations at that time, leading to the Suarez ban. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-case-what-report-said-about-key-figures.html
2) Firmino's sudden mute of social media posts. This is Firmino, who spends alot of time being himself sharing his daily shenanigans on Instagram, but after our win so far, he hasn't even posted as much as an Instagram story or post commemorating the win. To add, apparently he's not in Dubai with the team but instead for some reason is in Cyprus with Allan who is on loan there. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/roberto-firmino-appears-miss-liverpools-14123679
Don't get me wrong, I'm really hoping that Firmino is in the clear and that this was all a big lingual misunderstanding, but judging from the past, as much as we can review footage of the match which is repeatedly limited, we won't know much until the actual findings are presented.
Finally, what makes a potential negative outcome even worse is that it was only a week ago that the club have publicly backed Rhian Brewster against racist slurs so long muted by the FA. IF our own player to be charged for similar offence would be a huge weight to carry and open us up to be hypocrites.
I heard they already looked at the possibility but dismissed it as they couldn't find any bullets small enough to limit the damage to those non existent balls.
If its the last one then either you typed that post on your phone, in which case major kudos for your mobile typing skills, or you took a laptop into the bog with you, in which case ... yeugh!!!
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