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Team for Utrecht

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[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43152.msg1234344#msg1234344 date=1292501311]
Neil can be annoying with his love of stating the fucking obvious but Jeez Paddy, that was a bit OTT.

Back to the thread, Ross does have a point, wage bill needs to be cut, obviously. However, Ross does go a bit overboard with his love of Soccernomics and obviously we would be higher up the table and performing better if we had a different manager.

1 point against Wigan, Stoke and Newcastle away isn't good enough. Losing to Blackpool isn't good enough etc. The wage bill didn't cost us there. Not to sound like the Spide, but we need to lower the wage bill but at the same time a better manager would improve us.
[/quote]

I'm not for one second saying we don't have a poor squad, I also realise we aren't getting value for money with regards to the playing staff with regards to contribution v wages I'm simply saying given the size and strength of our squad compared to the rest of the league we should be at worst 7th from there it will be in the hands of nesv of how badly they want a CL place and then how badly they want the league.

simply put a good manager will/should keep us within touching distance of the top 4 but it will require finances to secure a top 4 position and then eventually challenge for the league so while agree a new manager wont solve all our problems I think a new manager will have us closer to our 'true' position which most assuredly isn't 9th.

also if paddy wants to rip into me, fair enough, it's only words 🙂
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

'who watches the watchmen (shite movie)'

it's okay, paddy needs to vent 🙂
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

Your point? Paddy isn't a mod and it hasn't been reported. Neil is just repeating everything that has been said and we're witnessing our club in dramatic decline. I'm guessing that you're going to be your usual ray of sunshine for the foreseeable months??
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234356#msg1234356 date=1292502400]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

Your point? Paddy isn't a mod and it hasn't been reported. Neil is just repeating everything that has been said and we're witnessing our club in dramatic decline. I'm guessing that you're going to be your usual ray of sunshine for the foreseeable months??
[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to single me out with regards to repeating stuff especially on a site like 6CM
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234359#msg1234359 date=1292502567]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234356#msg1234356 date=1292502400]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

Your point? Paddy isn't a mod and it hasn't been reported. Neil is just repeating everything that has been said and we're witnessing our club in dramatic decline. I'm guessing that you're going to be your usual ray of sunshine for the foreseeable months??
[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to single me out with regards to repeating stuff especially on a site like 6CM
[/quote]

whilst i agree with the premise, this thread is just you saying the same thing over and over again. Like Ross is. Like Brendan is. Like EVERYMOTHAFUCKA is. However you were the one mentioned by paddy and the one i decided to illustrate to grjt for that reason. Take no offence neil.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234356#msg1234356 date=1292502400]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

Your point? Paddy isn't a mod and it hasn't been reported. Neil is just repeating everything that has been said and we're witnessing our club in dramatic decline. I'm guessing that you're going to be your usual ray of sunshine for the foreseeable months??
[/quote]

What are you gibbering about?

It was a light hearted response to an OTT pop at S-N. Fucking hell, are all the mods/admin hormonal?!
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234359#msg1234359 date=1292502567]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234356#msg1234356 date=1292502400]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=43152.msg1234352#msg1234352 date=1292502132]
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=43152.msg1234327#msg1234327 date=1292499133]
Jesus fucking Christ Neil. His hame is ROSS you ignorant sack of shite. And quot posting in this thread, its fucking painful watching you repeat everything that's been said.
[/quote]

"Attack the post, not the poster" in full swing from the mods!
[/quote]

Your point? Paddy isn't a mod and it hasn't been reported. Neil is just repeating everything that has been said and we're witnessing our club in dramatic decline. I'm guessing that you're going to be your usual ray of sunshine for the foreseeable months??
[/quote]

I don't think it's fair to single me out with regards to repeating stuff especially on a site like 6CM
[/quote]
Hahaha... that's an extremely good point Neil. I actually found your posting of the squads in front of us rather amusing too.

Kind of owned the shite out of Ross there. Of course a better manager than Roy would have us play better football. It's very very very obvious that he's got a big influence on the current sad state of affairs. Big wage bill or not.
 
Apologies for the attitude the grjt. Tone is never translated well and i imagined it in the mood i'm in. Sarcy and needlessly opinionated
 
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. He's shite and should go, but we have so much dross/injury prone players that adds to why we're shite. They go hand in hand, not mutually exclusive.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. He's shite and should go, but we have so much dross/injury prone players that adds to why we're shite. They go hand in hand, not mutually exclusive.
[/quote]
First of all I don't think he's all that's wrong.

But he's got to take a very big part of the blame on his shoulders.

One thing is to lose points and games another is the way it's done. Last night at home at Anfield we managed two shots on goal from what I remember - against mediocre Dutch opposition. We didn't put pressure on the opponent. We didn't attack in numbers. We were standing 100 yards from their goal all the time and we saw players without any confidence, belief or grit and a manager looking increasingly frustrated, trying to rub his face of, on the sideline.

It's not working. It's not working one bit. And we've got a far stronger squad than several of the teams above us anyways. A good indication of this is our good win at home against Villa, this without our talismanic trio in Torres, Carra and Gerrard. It's mostly about tactics and secondly about 'all the dross'. In my opinion.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
 
Perhaps last night he thought "i don't care about this match" and lined up to stifle twente as he didn't want to risk more injuries by players running around full pelt. Now i don't agree with this mentality at all, but perhaps hes trying to work on which defensive partnership could be best for us while carra and agger are out. Obviously pairing wilson with both soto and skrtel over 45 min each shows that he's concerned about our defensive frailties and is trying to improve it in a game where the opposition would try and attack and we didn't have to. All teams need to have a solid basis of defence and then build on the rest.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234377#msg1234377 date=1292504151]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
[/quote]

so if the buck stops with the manager then it is his fault? surely thats what that means?
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234383#msg1234383 date=1292504489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234377#msg1234377 date=1292504151]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
[/quote]

so if the buck stops with the manager then it is his fault? surely thats what that means?
[/quote]

no, I mean there are factors for us not challenging for the league and factors for us being outside the top 4 but I blame roy for us being in 9th position.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234385#msg1234385 date=1292504679]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234383#msg1234383 date=1292504489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234377#msg1234377 date=1292504151]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
[/quote]

so if the buck stops with the manager then it is his fault? surely thats what that means?
[/quote]

no, I mean there are factors for us not challenging for the league and factors for us being outside the top 4 but I blame roy for us being in 9th position.
[/quote]

erm..

ultimately roy should go, however to expect an immediate improvement from another manager (i'm afraid) won't happen as the squad will still have a lot of dross.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234385#msg1234385 date=1292504679]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234383#msg1234383 date=1292504489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234377#msg1234377 date=1292504151]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
[/quote]

so if the buck stops with the manager then it is his fault? surely thats what that means?
[/quote]

no, I mean there are factors for us not challenging for the league and factors for us being outside the top 4 but I blame roy for us being in 9th position.
[/quote]

you see, for me, it's not even that we're 9th, which is bad enough, but that we've got 22 points from 17 games. guess what that would equate to at the end of the season? 49 points, and that's extrapolating from 17 games, not 6 or 7: it's a valid point. if we were to win every single game from now to the end of the season, we'd still end up with a point less than in 2009.

it's been diabolical so far, and much worse than the squad's capable of.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=43152.msg1234288#msg1234288 date=1292493493]
Hodgson whilst commenting on Torres not playing:

""But if he'd just played the 45 minutes with the way Utrecht were playing today, moving the ball across the back, it would have been a complete waste of time for everybody."

Righhht, so it was up to THEM to give us the ball so we could attack them.

Holy fuck.
[/quote]

Alternatively, Roy, we could close them down so that they can't pass it around the back four at will. We are the home team, after all.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234387#msg1234387 date=1292504973]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234385#msg1234385 date=1292504679]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234383#msg1234383 date=1292504489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234377#msg1234377 date=1292504151]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234368#msg1234368 date=1292503330]
I think the whole idea that roy is solely to blame is a joke. [/quote]

who is saying roy is solely to blame? certainly not me but the buck stops with the manager.
[/quote]

so if the buck stops with the manager then it is his fault? surely thats what that means?
[/quote]

no, I mean there are factors for us not challenging for the league and factors for us being outside the top 4 but I blame roy for us being in 9th position.
[/quote]

erm..

ultimately roy should go, however to expect an immediate improvement from another manager (i'm afraid) won't happen as the squad will still have a lot of dross.
[/quote]

at the risk of repeating myself (ha ha) I think our squad strength should have us roughly around 6th so I'd expect improvement in that regard. if roy had a cv that show success after shruggling at first then I would be more patient as I was patient with rafa despite badly struggling in the league (I'm talking before he won the CL at the end of the season).

if nesv are to spend no money then I expect a manager to get us at least 6th and if nesv are to spend money then roy isn't the manager to spend it. I certainly think we can improve WITH the players currently on the books. I think there is no excuse for being in 9th place. n'castle sacked a better manager in a higher position with a worse squad.
 
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234399#msg1234399 date=1292506128]
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
[/quote]

look at the squads above us, I've posted them for all to see.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234401#msg1234401 date=1292506207]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234399#msg1234399 date=1292506128]
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
[/quote]

look at the squads above us, I've posted them for all to see.
[/quote]

i did and they're not awful. All their players are playing above their ability and only a few possibly have a preconceived notion that they are amazing. Our squad is filled with arrogance and swagger without the product to back it up.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234399#msg1234399 date=1292506128]
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
[/quote]

it's all relative, though, isn't it. there aren't too many teams in the league with *one* player as good as gerrard, reina, or torres, let alone 3 of them.

like i said, we really shouldn't be down in 9th, and we definitely, definitely, shouldn't be on course for 49 fucking points. that's abysmal.
 
Fabio is it 'shitter' than some of the teams above us?

The thing is you can't just say 'Team A's got the best squad they'll win the title'. Luckily football is not that simple.

We've got a squad that you could expect to end up from 3rd to 7th I reckon. Dependable on factors such as opponents strengths, injuries, tactics, managers, luck etc.

Our current manager is NOT one I'd trust to get the best out of current squad sadly. Perhaps if he got a few years we'd improve but I'm keeping my fingers crossed he's only a stop gap solution as I'm not happy with his way of addressing the game. So we can probably expect to end up somewhere around 5th to 8th with him at the helm whereas other more talented, positive thinking managers would be able to perhaps even make us compete - especially when you're looking at the current environment where almost all of our competitors has begun very unconvincingly.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43152.msg1234404#msg1234404 date=1292506366]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234399#msg1234399 date=1292506128]
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
[/quote]

it's all relative, though, isn't it. there aren't too many teams in the league with *one* player as good as gerrard, reina, or torres, let alone 3 of them.

like i said, we really shouldn't be down in 9th, and we definitely, definitely, shouldn't be on course for 49 fucking points. that's abysmal.
[/quote]

you are of course right, we are better than we're showing, however there is no guarantee this is all down to hodgeson. As i mentioned previously arrogance can lead a player to believe that all they have to do is turn up and they'll be amazing.
[quote author=KHL link=topic=43152.msg1234406#msg1234406 date=1292506513]
Fabio is it 'shitter' than some of the teams above us?

The thing is you can't just say 'Team A's got the best squad they'll win the title'. Luckily football is not that simple.

We've got a squad that you could expect to end up from 3rd to 7th I reckon. Dependable on factors such as opponents strengths, injuries, tactics, managers, luck etc.

Our current manager is NOT one I'd trust to get the best out of current squad sadly. Perhaps if he got a few years we'd improve but I'm keeping my fingers crossed he's only a stop gap solution as I'm not happy with his way of addressing the game. So we can probably expect to end up somewhere around 5th to 8th with him at the helm whereas other more talented, positive thinking managers would be able to perhaps even make us compete - especially when you're looking at the current environment where almost all of our competitors has begun very unconvincingly.
[/quote]

i' say our squad isn't good enough for top 4. Yes we have some of the worlds best in some positions, yet we also have some absolute tripe playing for us in key positions that they can negate the good the brilliant players can do. For every torres wonder goal there is a skrtel fuck up. For every sublime gerrard pass there is a kuyt wasted possession. There is no high level in our first team, we have 3 players who ar world class surrounded by players who quite frankly aren't good enough to lace their boots.
Now while it'sall fun and games to point out roy as the main fault for this, he isn't. He is a contributing factor, not the total reason. Like our shite squad isn't the main reason, it's another factor. There is no one issue why we're shite, it's for many reasons, all of which have equal footings
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43152.msg1234404#msg1234404 date=1292506366]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43152.msg1234399#msg1234399 date=1292506128]
i don't know why we're meant to be higher in the league because of our squad. Our squad is shite.
[/quote]

it's all relative, though, isn't it. there aren't too many teams in the league with *one* player as good as gerrard, reina, or torres, let alone 3 of them.

like i said, we really shouldn't be down in 9th, and we definitely, definitely, shouldn't be on course for 49 fucking points. that's abysmal.
[/quote]

Carra, Cole, Magic and Ming would all be capable of getting into the teams Spider posted. Carra, Cole and Magic are capable of playing at a much higher level than they have been this season (although Carra had started to look more like his old self just before he got his injury).

In fact even Babel would get into those teams, an I'm in no way a Babel fan (In fact I think he is in my top 5 least favourite Liverpool players ever).

In fact I'll summarise by saying that Roy is shit, and blaming everything on Rafa is an easy excuse for the anyone is better than Rafa brigade.
 
Whoa whoa whoa i'm not mentioning rafa. I'm mentioning the squad. Rafa may have bought the players but i'm not mentioning him. I'm leaving the rafa debate at the door because its tedious
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=43152.msg1234391#msg1234391 date=1292505599]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=43152.msg1234288#msg1234288 date=1292493493]
Hodgson whilst commenting on Torres not playing:

""But if he'd just played the 45 minutes with the way Utrecht were playing today, moving the ball across the back, it would have been a complete waste of time for everybody."

Righhht, so it was up to THEM to give us the ball so we could attack them.

Holy fuck.
[/quote]

Alternatively, Roy, we could close them down so that they can't pass it around the back four at will. We are the home team, after all.
[/quote]

Hahaha, you with your peculiar new ideas.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43152.msg1234353#msg1234353 date=1292502238]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43152.msg1234344#msg1234344 date=1292501311]
Neil can be annoying with his love of stating the fucking obvious but Jeez Paddy, that was a bit OTT.

Back to the thread, Ross does have a point, wage bill needs to be cut, obviously. However, Ross does go a bit overboard with his love of Soccernomics and obviously we would be higher up the table and performing better if we had a different manager.

1 point against Wigan, Stoke and Newcastle away isn't good enough. Losing to Blackpool isn't good enough etc. The wage bill didn't cost us there. Not to sound like the Spide, but we need to lower the wage bill but at the same time a better manager would improve us.
[/quote]

I'm not for one second saying we don't have a poor squad, I also realise we aren't getting value for money with regards to the playing staff with regards to contribution v wages I'm simply saying given the size and strength of our squad compared to the rest of the league we should be at worst 7th from there it will be in the hands of nesv of how badly they want a CL place and then how badly they want the league.

simply put a good manager will/should keep us within touching distance of the top 4 but it will require finances to secure a top 4 position and then eventually challenge for the league so while agree a new manager wont solve all our problems I think a new manager will have us closer to our 'true' position which most assuredly isn't 9th.

also if paddy wants to rip into me, fair enough, it's only words 🙂
[/quote]

Only skimmed that Neil as I presume you've just reiterated what you've said about a thousand times already. 😉
 
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