Suso
- Thread starter LeTallecWiz
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I'd be assuming that as manager of a major football club that Houllier though it might be a good idea to have more than one player for certain positions. Just maybe like.
I'm sorry, I don't know if you're purposely being obtuse about this but Carra was average as a fullback. Do you believe Houllier bought Ziege to be a back up for Carra?
We're talking Euro 96, League winner, world cup runner up Ziege here.
Houiller might have bought players to replace /compete with Carragher but he saw them all off and was integral to our side. Luck might have helped Carragher in a way but it's an insult to his talent and tenure at the club to credit his success and 600 odd games with us down to luck. You don't play 600 game due to luck.
It's fair to say that certain players need a combination of work ethic and luck to make it. But, I repeat, you don't play 600 odd games like Carragher did because you got lucky breaks. I can see how anyone would find it difficult to discuss anything Carragher related with you because of your prior history of downplaying his career with us. Even in the last two pages you've had digs at him. That is why people are quick to jump down your throat.
You want examples of players who aren't that talented but made it, look no further than Flanno and Carra.
Carra was also very lucky. We had a wank defence back then
but Carra was average as a fullback.
When was our defense, "wank"? It wasn't under Houllier for the most part and when Carragher came into the team under Evans, he played in midfield. He was always a reliable player to bring in at that stage and was learning several positions and able to cover them, he'd yet to nail one, but you could say that about loads of young defenders. We brought in Ziege, who lasted about 5 minutes, whatever pedgree he had, same in the longrun with Henchoz, Skrtel, Agger, etc, he ousted all of them at some point.
It wasn't all luck, half the battle is having the heart and determination to do well, that's why many of the players you champion (Aquilani, Dos Santos, Babel) don't make it as far.
Aquilani and Dos Santos and Babel really? They didn't make it huh?
Let's do a who'd you rather, Downing or Dos Santos, you know the one who failed at Ipswich.
Seriously don't bring up Dos Santos, that's literally shooting yourself in the foot.
Also Aquilani, yeah he's playing in a third rate Italian team in Seria C. He was not part of Italy's world cup squad.
Babel? When did I champion him?
You're a proper plank sometimes.
By comparison, Aquilani and Dos Santos failed catastrophically in England. And as for your "who would you rather", you already made a prize winning twat out of yourself when you dragged up the Downing thread a couple of months back, so lets not go there eh. Oh hang on, Dos Santos who failed at Barca, Spurs, Ipswich, Galatasaray, Santander, before being relegated with his next club - that's some come down. Yeah he's boss compared to Stewart Downing.
I don't remember saying I would rather have either of them, I didn't exactly champion Downing, just like you didn't exactly diss him in that thread, the one you dragged up to make a twat out of yourself. Keep rewriting history though. They're both shit, so guess what, we both might have given the time of day to a shit player a couple of times, deal with it.
I don't know, the one you dragged up a few weeks ago, where you clearly said you weren't against him signing but he was overpriced, or words to that effect.
We were talking about Carragher anyway, you chose to completely ignore my point and play a bit of tit for tat over Downing/Aquilani/Dos Santos, my point was obvious in relation to Carragher but you chose instead to turn it into something else. This is pointless really, isn't it? We've been here.
We were talking about Carragher anyway, you chose to completely ignore my point and play a bit of tit for tat over Downing/Aquilani/Dos Santos, my point was obvious in relation to Carragher but you chose instead to turn it into something else. This is pointless really, isn't it? We've been here.
Regarding Carra, if our defence wasn't wank why did Houllier buy Henchoz, Hyypia, Song, Vignal, Ziege, Riise, Babbel and Traoré.
Might I add that all of those players were bought between 99 and 01.
The problem is that either you're forgetful or you just want to rewrite history. Truth is, Carra had very few supporters here during those years.
I remember the discussions in the Koptalk forum about replacing Carra, the mistakes he had in him every game and the potential of playing Babbel, Henchoz, Hyypia and Ziege. Which later became Babbel, Henchoz, Hyypia and Riise. I don't think Houllier planned for Carra to start but I guess he made it through hard work and a bit of luck.
That's the truth.
However the myth is that Carra always was as good as he was during the Benitez years.
You really do need an avatar change, and not in the way studsup suggested.
Over the years, you've matured into more than the immature wind up merchant that you started out as. Ditch this stupid shit and embrace that you are actually growing up.
I well remember the jokes about Carra getting a nose bleed if he crossed the half way line.
I remember some days where he would get roasted by an opposing attacker in the first half of a game.
I also remember that there was a clamor to replace him at times during those early years.
But I also remember that usually by the second half of a game Carra had learned enough to keep his opponent usually at bay and sometimes in his pocket.
It was this ability to learn, develop, and grow, even within a single game, coupled with a huge football intelligence that is apparent even now, that meant that Carra was able to see off many pretenders to his position in the back line.
His development into a top top defender was as much down to luck as Messi was lucky to get hormone treatment, Ronaldo (greasy) was lucky to be manged at a critical time in his development by Ferguson and Suarez was lucky that his girlfriend moved to Europe when she did.
I remember some days where he would get roasted by an opposing attacker in the first half of a game.
I also remember that there was a clamor to replace him at times during those early years.
But I also remember that usually by the second half of a game Carra had learned enough to keep his opponent usually at bay and sometimes in his pocket.
It was this ability to learn, develop, and grow, even within a single game, coupled with a huge football intelligence that is apparent even now, that meant that Carra was able to see off many pretenders to his position in the back line.
His development into a top top defender was as much down to luck as Messi was lucky to get hormone treatment, Ronaldo (greasy) was lucky to be manged at a critical time in his development by Ferguson and Suarez was lucky that his girlfriend moved to Europe when she did.
He brought in players to compete with carragher. Players are brought in to compete with others the whole time. Only having two or 3 full backs would be stupid as there would be no cover in case of injury or lack or form. Have you not even remotely considered that you might be wrong on this one given that absolutely fucking everyone disagrees with you?
This is what's so ridiculous though, even though no-one's pointing it out. Being inadequate and realising it, grafting to improve, finding new ways to overcome challenges that nature has pitted you, seeing off more talented competitors through sheer hard work and endeavour: THESE THINGS ARE THE OPPOSITE OF LUCK.
It's like saying someone born with one leg is lucky for learning to walk on a prosthetic limb, because most people have two legs. Just completely and utterly illogical.
Nah, Modo used to be okay, and now he seems to revel in being a dick about things.
In fact it was probably after he went from Modokay to just Modo.
The okay bit went. Shame
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