So let's just assume...

[Rosco]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39825.msg1088948#msg1088948 date=1271438468]
Yes, that giant of European football, the french selling team Lyon, who never do anything apart from win a shit league (sometimes) and sell their best players for lots of money to proper clubs

That's the model we need to follow
[/quote]

In this post you're actually pointing our exactly what the problem is, and the reason why we'll probably never go down this route.

Stupid fans.

We're not going to outspend every other team in the country, so we need to be smarter in how we use out money. The way we do it now is extremely wasteful and it needs serious improvement. Out of the 80m we've spent in the last two years only one player bought during that time is a first team regular.

 

[keniget]

A technical director can spend 80m on shit as well.

In every system its about having the right people in place. And the right strategy.

We could quite easily go down such a route and end up in the shit as well, so I dont see why you are so convinced with your argument.

 

[manwithnoname]

Christ, double-teamed by Ross and robin

Poor the Brendan

 

[Fox]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39825.msg1088795#msg1088795 date=1271415550]
For the record, Mourinho has got a technical director at Inter Milan.
[/quote]

maybe Jose can lend us that nipper from Jamie's footballs next star, he was a left winger

I would not trust Rafa with £60 million, he would just spend it on full backs and keepers. Give it to a new man as a sweetener.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39825.msg1088946#msg1088946 date=1271438301]
... and I don't think I'm being naive.

Sure, there's more money in the game, more foreigners in English football, and there's a greater emphasis on athleticism, but it's not fundamentally any different from when Dalglish was playing.

He could help us, by bringing back more of a big family culture to the club, instilling the right teamworking attitudes and a pass and move philosophy. All these things would be benefits.

What are the potential problems? That he's forgotten what makes a good team / player? I doubt it.
[/quote]

The worries I'd have if the King were appointed on a permanent basis are (a) that he was already burned out when he left us the first time, when the club's situation wasn't half as difficult as it is now, and (b) that he has other things on his mind these days, namely his wife's health problems and the Fund set up in her name.

That said, if he were appointed as caretaker for a spell that he knew would come to an end fairly soon, I'd be more than happy. In those circs.I think the whole club would get a major lift, in the ways you rightly identify.

 

[Buddha]

My summer fantasy solution;

Out
Riera - 6m
Babel - 10m
Benayoun - 9m
Aquilani - 12m
Skrtel - 10m
El Zhar - 2m
Ayala - 3m
Combined other surplus youngsters - 3m

Total - 55m

In

Mata - 22m
Balotelli - 18m
Felipe - 8m
Turan - 13m
McCarthy - 12m
Joe Cole - free
Kjaer - 15m
Benzema - 28m
Jovanevic - free

Total - 117m

Net spend 62m

What an array of attacking talent eh?

We could go either 4-4-2 or Rafa's favoured 4-2-3-1 with that lot, looking something like this;

-------------------Reina----------------------

Johnson------Kjaer------Agger-----------Felipe

Turan/Cole----------Masher------Gerrard-------Mata

-------------------Benzema-----------------------
----------------------Torres----------------------

or

------------------Reina--------------------------

Johnson-------Carra---------Agger------------Felipe

-----------------Masher-------Gerrard---------------

Mata------------------Turan/Cole---------------------Balotelli

--------------------Torres/Benzema-----------------


We'd have both depth of squad and regardless of formation and injuries, some serious game-changing options off the bench.

Goalkeeper: Reina, Cavalieri, kids.
Right back: Johnson, Kelly, Carra
Left back: Felipe, Insua, Agger
Centre backs: Carra, Agger, Kjaer, Greek, Kelly

Centre Midfield: Masher, Gerrard, Lucas, McCarthy (and possibly a freebie older player)
Right midfield in a 4-4-2: Turan, Cole, Kuyt, Johnson (should Kelly step up at right-back)
Left midfield in a 4-4-2: Mata, Turan, Cole, Balotelli (at a push)
Right wing forward in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3: Mata, Kuyt, Turan
Left wing forward in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3: Balotelli, Turan, Mata
Withdrawn striker in a 4-2-3-1: Turan, Benzema, Cole, Gerrard
Strikers: Torres, Benzema, Jovanovic, Kuyt, N'Gog

I'd wager with anyone that this lot would challenge on all fronts.

 

[Judge Jules]

Cavalieri's going in the summer (family reasons), so we may need to find enough for another keeper depending on how our ressies/youngsters are doing. Balotelli's a fruitcake and I wouldn't touch him with yours. Good list otherwise. Here's hoping.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088741#msg1088741 date=1271411120]
On the contrary, khl, buying him after a bad season makes perfect sense. I've seen him play enough to know that he's mega-talented. If he'd shown that in his first season at Real, he would now be valued at £60m and they wouldn't sell. As it is, there's a chance he might be available - and probably for less than they paid for him.

I wouldn't play him out wide, under normal circumstances. If Torres was fit, I'd play Benzema just behind at no10. He's got the skill and vision to play that role - I've seen him do it. However, he would also give us a genuine no9 when Torres is injured, as he's often led the line on his own.

As has been said, the chances of us getting him are pretty slim, but I do think he'd be a potentially brilliant signing. Whether Rafa is the right manager to get the best out of him, I'm far less sure. I suspect Ferguson would do much better.
[/quote]

A forward partnership of Benzema & Torres would awesome alright, a pipe dream though as things stand.
I agree that Benzema is awesome, one bad season at Real doesn't change that.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=39825.msg1088987#msg1088987 date=1271450919]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088741#msg1088741 date=1271411120]
On the contrary, khl, buying him after a bad season makes perfect sense. I've seen him play enough to know that he's mega-talented. If he'd shown that in his first season at Real, he would now be valued at £60m and they wouldn't sell. As it is, there's a chance he might be available - and probably for less than they paid for him.

I wouldn't play him out wide, under normal circumstances. If Torres was fit, I'd play Benzema just behind at no10. He's got the skill and vision to play that role - I've seen him do it. However, he would also give us a genuine no9 when Torres is injured, as he's often led the line on his own.

As has been said, the chances of us getting him are pretty slim, but I do think he'd be a potentially brilliant signing. Whether Rafa is the right manager to get the best out of him, I'm far less sure. I suspect Ferguson would do much better.
[/quote]

A forward partnership of Benzema & Torres would awesome alright, a pipe dream though as things stand.
I agree that Benzema is awesome, one bad season at Real doesn't change that.
[/quote]

I'd blurt in my trousies if we started the next season with Benz and Torres up front.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39825.msg1088985#msg1088985 date=1271450833]
Cavalieri's going in the summer (family reasons), so we may need to find enough for another keeper depending on how our ressies/youngsters are doing. Balotelli's a fruitcake and I wouldn't touch him with yours. Good list otherwise. Here's hoping.
[/quote]

Balotelli is a loose canon but he's young and prodigiously talented. I really think he'll be an absolute monster if he matures beyond his inflated ego. He could also cover any position up front.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088953#msg1088953 date=1271439111]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39825.msg1088948#msg1088948 date=1271438468]
Yes, that giant of European football, the french selling team Lyon, who never do anything apart from win a shit league (sometimes) and sell their best players for lots of money to proper clubs

That's the model we need to follow
[/quote]

In this post you're actually pointing our exactly what the problem is, and the reason why we'll probably never go down this route.

Stupid fans.

We're not going to outspend every other team in the country, so we need to be smarter in how we use out money. The way we do it now is extremely wasteful and it needs serious improvement. Out of the 80m we've spent in the last two years only one player bought during that time is a first team regular.
[/quote]

ah ah Ross you are going against your mentor .....

2. Use the wisdom of crowds
😉
regards

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39825.msg1088948#msg1088948 date=1271438468]
Yes, that giant of European football, the french selling team Lyon, who never do anything apart from win a shit league (sometimes) and sell their best players for lots of money to proper clubs

That's the model we need to follow
[/quote]

I'll worry about how we do in Europe when we've won seven consecutive league titles.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39825.msg1088993#msg1088993 date=1271451403]


ah ah Ross you are going against your mentor .....

2. Use the wisdom of crowds
😉
regards
[/quote]

With all due respect...one internet creep does not = "crowd"

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1088966#msg1088966 date=1271442806]
A technical director can spend 80m on shit as well.

In every system its about having the right people in place. And the right strategy.

We could quite easily go down such a route and end up in the shit as well, so I dont see why you are so convinced with your argument.
[/quote]

True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

It is all about getting the right people, bt im not sure why Ross' point is is so easiliy dismissed.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

Which, on the basis of a few high profile transfers, it could be argued we don't have.

 

[Judge Jules]

IMO that would be misdirected. We've actually got a better record, albeit not a perfect one, with the big transfers than we have with the cheaper ones.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39825.msg1089055#msg1089055 date=1271483366]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

Which, on the basis of a few high profile transfers, it could be argued we don't have.
[/quote]

And so it could be argued that it's not the system at fault, but the fact that we have the wrong people in key positions.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39825.msg1088979#msg1088979 date=1271449179]
The worries I'd have if the King were appointed on a permanent basis are (a) that he was already burned out when he left us the first time[/quote]

I agree that it's probably not a good idea to make him manager, at least not for any length of time, but that's not what we're talking about.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

If he's listened to. And not sacked for arguing against a transfer, like Pako was.

We need a system with a safety mechanism in place for when a bonkers manager wants to sign a past it pisshead for 20m. I think the combination of a technical director and someone else in the boardroom being required to okay a transfer is enough.

 

[keniget]

Which Pako? Not the assistant manager I presume.

 

[the count]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089102#msg1089102 date=1271498981]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

If he's listened to. And not sacked for arguing against a transfer, like Pako was.

We need a system with a safety mechanism in place for when a bonkers manager wants to sign a past it pisshead for 20m. I think the combination of a technical director and someone else in the boardroom being required to okay a transfer is enough.


[/quote]

Is this fact Ross or is it just another internet rumour that you choose to believe because it goes along with what you want to believe is the truth?

 

[Rosco]

There were two rumours, one that came before he was put on gardening leave and the other that came out after the fact.

The first one is that they fell out over the Babel transfer, the second that Pako had tipped off Mourinho to our pursuit of Malouda. I tend to take the first one as being the truth because throughout all his time here we've seen how well Rafa's people can put a spin on a story. (like the nonsense about Keane not being signed by Rafa)

 

[the count]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089113#msg1089113 date=1271500546]
There were two rumours, one that came before he was put on gardening leave and the other that came out after the fact.

The first one is that they fell out over the Babel transfer, the second that Pako had tipped off Mourinho to our pursuit of Malouda. I tend to take the first one as being the truth because throughout all his time here we've seen how well Rafa's people can put a spin on a story. (like the nonsense about Keane not being signed by Rafa)
[/quote]

So it is rumour and conjecture that you choose to believe.
Sound

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=the count link=topic=39825.msg1089116#msg1089116 date=1271501041]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089113#msg1089113 date=1271500546]
There were two rumours, one that came before he was put on gardening leave and the other that came out after the fact.

The first one is that they fell out over the Babel transfer, the second that Pako had tipped off Mourinho to our pursuit of Malouda. I tend to take the first one as being the truth because throughout all his time here we've seen how well Rafa's people can put a spin on a story. (like the nonsense about Keane not being signed by Rafa)
[/quote]

So it is rumour and conjecture that you choose to believe.
Sound
[/quote]

I don't think 'Rafa's people' ever suggested Keane wasn't signed by him. Unless you mean gormless interweb mongs as 'Rafa's people'.

 

[keniget]

And he was an assistant manager and not part of the scouting system.

Either way no matter why he left - there is nothing to prevent sackings in different systems.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089102#msg1089102 date=1271498981]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

If he's listened to. And not sacked for arguing against a transfer, like Pako was.

We need a system with a safety mechanism in place for when a bonkers manager wants to sign a past it pisshead for 20m. I think the combination of a technical director and someone else in the boardroom being required to okay a transfer is enough.


[/quote]

Provided the individuals concerned aren't even more incompetent than the manager they've got the job of overseeing.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089113#msg1089113 date=1271500546]
There were two rumours, one that came before he was put on gardening leave and the other that came out after the fact.

The first one is that they fell out over the Babel transfer, the second that Pako had tipped off Mourinho to our pursuit of Malouda. I tend to take the first one as being the truth because throughout all his time here we've seen how well Rafa's people can put a spin on a story. (like the nonsense about Keane not being signed by Rafa)
[/quote]

I'm not so sure it's the first one Ross.

The one bit of accurate information I've been privy to over the last couple of years was that we were negotiating with Malouda before the end of that season (and well before the story broke). A friend (of a friend) let me know that we'd agreed a fee (after some typical wrangling) and terms with the player, only for Chelsea to jump in out of nowhere and gazump the deal. I have no inkling as to whether Paco tipped Chelsea off about the deal (or was loose tongued in error), but we were certainly pissed off that Chelsea got wind of the deal and beat us to it.

Of course, the most likely scenario is that Malouda's agent tipped Chelsea off, but who knows?

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39825.msg1089119#msg1089119 date=1271501490]
[quote author=the count link=topic=39825.msg1089116#msg1089116 date=1271501041]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089113#msg1089113 date=1271500546]
There were two rumours, one that came before he was put on gardening leave and the other that came out after the fact.

The first one is that they fell out over the Babel transfer, the second that Pako had tipped off Mourinho to our pursuit of Malouda. I tend to take the first one as being the truth because throughout all his time here we've seen how well Rafa's people can put a spin on a story. (like the nonsense about Keane not being signed by Rafa)
[/quote]

So it is rumour and conjecture that you choose to believe.
Sound
[/quote]

I don't think 'Rafa's people' ever suggested Keane wasn't signed by him. Unless you mean gormless interweb mongs as 'Rafa's people'.




[/quote]

It initially came through the same channels that a lot of inside info comes from, then went viral.


EDIT: Brendan - this is where you jump in and make one of your usual comments.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=the count link=topic=39825.msg1089110#msg1089110 date=1271500162]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1089102#msg1089102 date=1271498981]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1089054#msg1089054 date=1271483066]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39825.msg1089039#msg1089039 date=1271472010]
True, but somneone with a good track record in scouting transfers and has excellent contacts might make a great techncal director; leaving the manager to just manage his team.

[/quote]

And the same can be achieved by having an excellent chief scout, can it not?
[/quote]

If he's listened to. And not sacked for arguing against a transfer, like Pako was.

We need a system with a safety mechanism in place for when a bonkers manager wants to sign a past it pisshead for 20m. I think the combination of a technical director and someone else in the boardroom being required to okay a transfer is enough.


[/quote]

Is this fact Ross or is it just another internet rumour that you choose to believe because it goes along with what you want to believe is the truth?
[/quote]

It's just another internet rumour.