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So let's just assume...

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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088667#msg1088667 date=1271402546]
From Soccernomics, the twelve secrets to the transfer market according to Lyon owner Jean Michel Aulas (who took Lyon from the 2nd division in France to where they are now) :

1. A new manager wastes money on transfers, don't let him.
2. Use the wisdom of crowds
3. Stars of recent World Cups or European Championships are overvalued, ignore them.
4. Certain nationalities are overvalued. (The Dutch were an example mentioned, in particular Van Bronckhorst, who failed at Arsenal but still got a move to Barca where he failed too)
5. Older players are overvalued.
6. Centre Forwards are overvalued, goalkeepers are undervalued.
7. Gentlemen prefer blonds: identify and abandon "sight based prejudices"
8. The best time to buy a player is in his early twenties.
9. Sell any player when another club offers more than he is worth.
10. Replace your best players even before you sell them.
11. Buy players with personal problems, and then help them deal with their problems.
12. Help your players relocate.

Some explanation is required on a few of them, but that's the basis of it.
[/quote]

A combination of interesting, obvious and bollocks.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Ross, your newly-found Lyon obsession is all fair and well. But for every one of these Director of Football in charge situations that's worked, there are about 50 examples of where it hasn't.

Do you think Wenger, Mourinho, and Ferguson would fancy such a set-up?
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=39825.msg1088672#msg1088672 date=1271402903]
Much as I love Carra I have always had a deep-seated worry that we can never win the league with him as a regular starter because no matter how superb he's been for us he just cannot be considered in the same league as Ferdinand, Terry, Carvalho, Vidic etc and the fact he will be 33 during next season re-enforces my belief that a top class (or in this case potential top class) CB like Kjaer is a must.
[/quote]

Although I think we need another CB as well, Carra is not the reason we didn't win the league last year.
 
I think we need to buy about four youth keepers at about £2M each, smash our record by spending about £22M on a CB, we really need to prioritise RB, so another £20M there, leaving about £10M for a backup striker, a decent CM, class on both wings and a LB.

Sorted
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39825.msg1088679#msg1088679 date=1271403994]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=39825.msg1088672#msg1088672 date=1271402903]
Much as I love Carra I have always had a deep-seated worry that we can never win the league with him as a regular starter because no matter how superb he's been for us he just cannot be considered in the same league as Ferdinand, Terry, Carvalho, Vidic etc and the fact he will be 33 during next season re-enforces my belief that a top class (or in this case potential top class) CB like Kjaer is a must.
[/quote]

Although I think we need another CB as well, Carra is not the reason we didn't win the league last year.
[/quote]

I totally agree Keni but I've always had my doubts that if we ever got the left back situation sorted, added some decent extra width and got a decent back up to Torres THEN we might need to address the CB situation. This season coming, with Carra hitting 33, the CB situation becomes more of a priority.
 
Love these threads to bits.

My list and obviously Rafas as well. At least it should/will be after he's been reading 6CM.

Simon Kjaer [£10M]
David Luiz [£10M]
Eden Hazard [£20M]
Arda Turan [£12M]
Cristian Eriksen [£15M]

That's a lot of money right there so we'd have to sell the following:

Aurelio, 4 youngsters whom we all thought would be boss, Yossi Benayoun, Albert Riera, Degen, Martin Skrtel and perhaps even Dirk Kuyt. Him or Babel.

That's about £30M right there and perhaps even closer to £40M so if the rumoured £60M is anything to go buy we could probably shohorn a few players like McCarthy-bloke as it seems you guy rate a lot and 4 very promising youngsters who's all going to be boss.

XI that'll scare the right shite out of every other team outthere (and look at the bench too):

...............................Reina...............................
Johnson..........Kjaer..........Agger..............Luiz
..................Masher..........Gerrard...................
Turan....................Eriksen...................Hazard
...........................Torres.................................

Cava, Carra, Kelly, Lucas, Insua, Aquilani, Jovanovic, McCarthy, Kuyt, Pacheco

The blistering pace and movement in attack with these players would make a lot of us - particularly Brendan - want to touch ourselves in utter glee.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Don't sign strikers? That's all very well if you've got Benzema in your youth team, but otherwise it seems a bit risky.

And how have Lyon gotten it right this year? They're equal third, seven points behind Marseille.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39825.msg1088619#msg1088619 date=1271381321]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=39825.msg1088599#msg1088599 date=1271374911]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39825.msg1088594#msg1088594 date=1271374546]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39825.msg1088591#msg1088591 date=1271374441]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39825.msg1088588#msg1088588 date=1271374011]
Quick question:

Why would Higuain, David Villa, Di Maria et al - the most sought after players in World Football - want to come and play for a team in the Europa League in an outdated stadium?
[/quote]

Because we are already within some bizarre imagined dreamscape in which we find 60M laying around, which would suggest new ownership, new hope, and the beginning of a new project with a team that actually has impressive international stature.
[/quote]

Ah gotcha.

In that case, how about Kenny Dalglish 1981 model?

He'd fit in well.
[/quote]

Ah Ryan, don't be such a dry arse. As someone said it's an internet forum, with a thread based on the assumption we have 60million. Yes it's Hypothetical, but a bit of light reading was in order because of the day that's in it. I doubt anyone is the mood to get into heated debates about tactics, Rafa or anything doom and gloom.
[/quote]

I'm not complaining about the thread at all Dave, just taking the piss.

Chill.
[/quote]

I didn't write that in an angry way at all. It's all good.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088700#msg1088700 date=1271407217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Don't sign strikers? That's all very well if you've got Benzema in your youth team, but otherwise it seems a bit risky.

And how have Lyon gotten it right this year? They're equal third, seven points behind Marseille.

[/quote]
On a slightly different note Bunny I read that you are suggesting that we should splash the cash for Benzema.

Wouldn't that be equally risky and daft considering his awful first Season at Real?

My main issue with him is where to play him to be honest. If as back-up striker to Torres he'll be out most expensive sub ever (more so than Aquaman) and I'm not sure he'd improve us out wide.

Maybe you're right however I'm just curious.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088667#msg1088667 date=1271402546]
From Soccernomics, the twelve secrets to the transfer market according to Lyon owner Jean Michel Aulas (who took Lyon from the 2nd division in France to where they are now) :

1. A new manager wastes money on transfers, don't let him.
2. Use the wisdom of crowds
3. Stars of recent World Cups or European Championships are overvalued, ignore them.
4. Certain nationalities are overvalued. (The Dutch were an example mentioned, in particular Van Bronckhorst, who failed at Arsenal but still got a move to Barca where he failed too)
5. Older players are overvalued.
6. Centre Forwards are overvalued, goalkeepers are undervalued.
7. Gentlemen prefer blonds: identify and abandon "sight based prejudices"
8. The best time to buy a player is in his early twenties.
9. Sell any player when another club offers more than he is worth.
10. Replace your best players even before you sell them.
11. Buy players with personal problems, and then help them deal with their problems.
12. Help your players relocate.

Some explanation is required on a few of them, but that's the basis of it.
[/quote]

The Sevilla chairman also seem ruthless. He has brought in massive fee's for the likes of Baptista, Ramos and Alves.
 
Benayoun, Riera and Babel out – Elia, Krasic and Turan in

Aurelio and Insua out – Capdevila and Taiwo in

Aquilani out - Ireland in

Lucas out – Flamini in

Cavalieri, Degen, Plessis, Mendy, Brouwer, San Jose, N’Gog, Nemeth, deadwood – out
In - someone to play in the hole or up top should Torres be injured – Aguero

GK- Reina, Gulacsi, kid (emergency loan if need be)
RB – Johnson, Kelly, Darby
CB- Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Kyrgiakos, Ayala
LB – Taiwo, Capdevila
RM – Krasic, Maxi
CM – Mascherano, Gerrard, Ireland, Flamini
LM – Elia, Turan
ST/FW – Torres, Aguero, Kuyt, Pacheco
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088705#msg1088705 date=1271407581]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088700#msg1088700 date=1271407217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Don't sign strikers? That's all very well if you've got Benzema in your youth team, but otherwise it seems a bit risky.

And how have Lyon gotten it right this year? They're equal third, seven points behind Marseille.

[/quote]
On a slightly different note Bunny I read that you are suggesting that we should splash the cash for Benzema.

Wouldn't that be equally risky and daft considering his awful first Season at Real?

My main issue with him is where to play him to be honest. If as back-up striker to Torres he'll be out most expensive sub ever (more so than Aquaman) and I'm not sure he'd improve us out wide.

Maybe you're right however I'm just curious.
[/quote]

On the contrary, khl, buying him after a bad season makes perfect sense. I've seen him play enough to know that he's mega-talented. If he'd shown that in his first season at Real, he would now be valued at £60m and they wouldn't sell. As it is, there's a chance he might be available - and probably for less than they paid for him.

I wouldn't play him out wide, under normal circumstances. If Torres was fit, I'd play Benzema just behind at no10. He's got the skill and vision to play that role - I've seen him do it. However, he would also give us a genuine no9 when Torres is injured, as he's often led the line on his own.

As has been said, the chances of us getting him are pretty slim, but I do think he'd be a potentially brilliant signing. Whether Rafa is the right manager to get the best out of him, I'm far less sure. I suspect Ferguson would do much better.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088741#msg1088741 date=1271411120]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088705#msg1088705 date=1271407581]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088700#msg1088700 date=1271407217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Don't sign strikers? That's all very well if you've got Benzema in your youth team, but otherwise it seems a bit risky.

And how have Lyon gotten it right this year? They're equal third, seven points behind Marseille.

[/quote]
On a slightly different note Bunny I read that you are suggesting that we should splash the cash for Benzema.

Wouldn't that be equally risky and daft considering his awful first Season at Real?

My main issue with him is where to play him to be honest. If as back-up striker to Torres he'll be out most expensive sub ever (more so than Aquaman) and I'm not sure he'd improve us out wide.

Maybe you're right however I'm just curious.
[/quote]

On the contrary, khl, buying him after a bad season makes perfect sense. I've seen him play enough to know that he's mega-talented. If he'd shown that in his first season at Real, he would now be valued at £60m and they wouldn't sell. As it is, there's a chance he might be available - and probably for less than they paid for him.


[/quote]

I agree. And our new manager might get the best out of him.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088741#msg1088741 date=1271411120]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088705#msg1088705 date=1271407581]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088700#msg1088700 date=1271407217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Don't sign strikers? That's all very well if you've got Benzema in your youth team, but otherwise it seems a bit risky.

And how have Lyon gotten it right this year? They're equal third, seven points behind Marseille.

[/quote]
On a slightly different note Bunny I read that you are suggesting that we should splash the cash for Benzema.

Wouldn't that be equally risky and daft considering his awful first Season at Real?

My main issue with him is where to play him to be honest. If as back-up striker to Torres he'll be out most expensive sub ever (more so than Aquaman) and I'm not sure he'd improve us out wide.

Maybe you're right however I'm just curious.
[/quote]

On the contrary, khl, buying him after a bad season makes perfect sense. I've seen him play enough to know that he's mega-talented. If he'd shown that in his first season at Real, he would now be valued at £60m and they wouldn't sell. As it is, there's a chance he might be available - and probably for less than they paid for him.

I wouldn't play him out wide, under normal circumstances. If Torres was fit, I'd play Benzema just behind at no10. He's got the skill and vision to play that role - I've seen him do it. However, he would also give us a genuine no9 when Torres is injured, as he's often led the line on his own.

As has been said, the chances of us getting him are pretty slim, but I do think he'd be a potentially brilliant signing. Whether Rafa is the right manager to get the best out of him, I'm far less sure. I suspect Ferguson would do much better.

[/quote]

Buying a 22 year old Benzema can only be a good thing. Benzema and Torres would be aces.

Only thing is, I can't see Rafa dropping Gerrard back into midfield on a regular basis.
 
Having watched a few of Reals game I must admit he's not impressed me at all.

His first touch is abysmal at times and he seems rather clumsy in his movements too.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea I'm not just convinced he'd be worth £20M when we could spend it elsewhere.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088755#msg1088755 date=1271412289]
Having watched a few of Reals game I must admit he's not impressed me at all.

His first touch is abysmal at times and he seems rather clumsy in his movements too.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea I'm not just convinced he'd be worth £20M when we could spend it elsewhere.
[/quote]

If Benzema isn't worth 20m (in footballing terms) then I know nothing about football...

Of course, I'm open to the suggestion that the latter is entirely true.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088755#msg1088755 date=1271412289]
Having watched a few of Reals game I must admit he's not impressed me at all.

His first touch is abysmal at times and he seems rather clumsy in his movements too.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea I'm not just convinced he'd be worth £20M when we could spend it elsewhere.
[/quote]

I've barely seen Benzema for Real, but for France and Lyon his first touch always struck me as pretty fucking sublime. I guess he's just struggling for confidence at the moment, in an unfamiliar team which is not built around him at all.

Seriously, khl, you ought to like him. He's like Bendtner, only much much better.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39825.msg1088798#msg1088798 date=1271416053]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39825.msg1088755#msg1088755 date=1271412289]
Having watched a few of Reals game I must admit he's not impressed me at all.

His first touch is abysmal at times and he seems rather clumsy in his movements too.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea I'm not just convinced he'd be worth £20M when we could spend it elsewhere.
[/quote]

I've barely seen Benzema for Real, but for France and Lyon his first touch always struck me as pretty fucking sublime. I guess he's just struggling for confidence at the moment, in an unfamiliar team which is not built around him at all.

Seriously, khl, you ought to like him. He's like Bendtner, only much much better.
[/quote]
Yeah... yeah.. but does he hold a Danish Passport? Not likely.

Jesting aside I do like the idea of him and thought he looked great from what little I've seen of him in Lyon but my colleague at the office - who's a major Real Madrid fan and often extremely biased towards their players - says he reminds him of Berbatov and is extremely underwhelmed with him.

Anyways I'll be happy enough to see him in a Liverpool-shirt then. Buy him.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39825.msg1088677#msg1088677 date=1271403596]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39825.msg1088673#msg1088673 date=1271403086]
[quote author=Doped White Mouse link=topic=39825.msg1088668#msg1088668 date=1271402764]
Number 11 is a bit risky though. Which player with personal problems have Lyon bought?

The rest sounds quite logical.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know, there was a mention of Clough being similarly prodigious in the transfer market and that's certainly on the things he did. It might be an amalgamation of Lyon, Wenger and Clough/Taylor.

On the strikers are overvalued thing, part of Lyon's policy was not to sign strikers. I know of two instances when they've broken that (Lopez and Sonny Anderson) but there are exceptions every rule, so it's a matter of knowing when to break the rule. It looks like they've gotten it right this year anyway
[/quote]

Ross, your newly-found Lyon obsession is all fair and well. But for every one of these Director of Football in charge situations that's worked, there are about 50 examples of where it hasn't.

Do you think Wenger, Mourinho, and Ferguson would fancy such a set-up?
[/quote]

Well we don't have to worry about them, none of them will end up here.

And for every Wenger, Mourinho and Ferguson there's an unlimited amount of examples where having one man alone in charge turned out to be an utter failure.
 
It might not work in every case, but in this case the director of football would be Kenny Dalglish, our greatest ever player and someone who remembers what the culture of the club was when it was at its best.
 
... and I don't think I'm being naive.

Sure, there's more money in the game, more foreigners in English football, and there's a greater emphasis on athleticism, but it's not fundamentally any different from when Dalglish was playing.

He could help us, by bringing back more of a big family culture to the club, instilling the right teamworking attitudes and a pass and move philosophy. All these things would be benefits.

What are the potential problems? That he's forgotten what makes a good team / player? I doubt it.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39825.msg1088943#msg1088943 date=1271438093]
I call this type of shit “RossLogicâ€
[/quote]

I'm borrowing it all from Soccernomics , so you should really call it that.

But we should really stick with what hasn't worked for 20 years instead. I agree.
 
Yes, that giant of European football, the french selling team Lyon, who never do anything apart from win a shit league (sometimes) and sell their best players for lots of money to proper clubs

That's the model we need to follow
 
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