Slot machine

[keniget]

I was going to reply to the transfer thread but figured why not create a new one.

RE: rotation, Slot should've rotated a bit more but I think the whole rotation thing has been a little bit overstated. The only players we're really talking about are Endo and Elliot.

Up front, Gakpo and Diaz have been well rotated. Unfortunately for us Gakpo got an injury at the wrong time. Nunez has had loads of chances and been shit in 90% of them. Jota, sick note as per usual. Chiesa spent what few minutes he got earlier in the season looking like he was running in boots made of cement.

In the midfield, Jones has had opportunities when fit and has been hit and miss. Elliot has been used very sparingly but unfortunately in the limited minutes he had earlier in the season, didn't impress. Endo absolutely should've been used more, no question and that points of a level of stubbornness and inflexibility.

In defence, Bradley looked pretty iffy at the start of the season. Ditto Quansah (who the jury is still out on). Gomez, unlucky with his injury yet again. Robertson and Tsimikas have been rotated reasonably I would say - neither option is super reliable.

So the reality is that the squad isn't as good / deep as some began to believe it was earlier in the season and once again, we can trace that back to the summer. Many thought we'd buy a defender in the summer, we didn't. Many thought or should I say desperately hoped that we'd buy an attacker in the summer, we didn't. We spent all summer trying to replace Endo and didn't. We're now seeing the very real consequences of some of those decisions.

Klopp and co laid a very decent foundation for the incoming manager but no doubt they were some pretty big shoes to fill. Given that I thought we'd collapse after Klopp left, can't really complain too much about how things gone.

There are points of concern - e.g. Fark's small time mentality observation, the weird contract stand-offs etc - but if we're all honest, we knew the squad needed work. We just have to hope that this summer the club will show the right level of ambition.

 

[Fabio]

This summer I reckon we need 300m of investment. Players of the quality we need will cost a lot.

We won't pay 300m, so we'll skimp and save and buy players who *might* be up to the standard we need

 

[Modo]

Elliot and Endo both have zero starts in the Prem this season so far.
Meaning, this entire season we've only rotated four players in midfield (Jones, Gravy, Szob and Mac) . It's technically just three because Gravy hasn't been rotating with anyone.

We had the chance to buy a midfielder in Jan and we didn't
We had the chance to sell Nunez in Jan and we didn't.

This two week implosion is on Slot imo. Luckily, we're still on track for the league, but if it wasn't for City's collapse, they'd be champions this year too.

 

[Modo]

This summer I reckon we need 300m of investment. Players of the quality we need will cost a lot.

We won't pay 300m, so we'll skimp and save and buy players who *might* be up to the standard we need

Wouldn't it have been great if one of our free transfers could have been sold to Saudi so we could at least get half of that sum from sales.

 

[Fabio]

Wouldn't have been great if one of our free transfers could have been sold to Saudi so we could at least get half of that sum from sales.

It's squad mismanagement, but is what it is.

 

[StevieM]

I was going to reply to the transfer thread but figured why not create a new one.

RE: rotation, Slot should've rotated a bit more but I think the whole rotation thing has been a little bit overstated. The only players we're really talking about are Endo and Elliot.

Up front, Gakpo and Diaz have been well rotated. Unfortunately for us Gakpo got an injury at the wrong time. Nunez has had loads of chances and been shit in 90% of them. Jota, sick note as per usual. Chiesa spent what few minutes he got earlier in the season looking like he was running in boots made of cement.

In the midfield, Jones has had opportunities when fit and has been hit and miss. Elliot has been used very sparingly but unfortunately in the limited minutes he had earlier in the season, didn't impress. Endo absolutely should've been used more, no question and that points of a level of stubbornness and inflexibility.

In defence, Bradley looked pretty iffy at the start of the season. Ditto Quansah (who the jury is still out on). Gomez, unlucky with his injury yet again. Robertson and Tsimikas have been rotated reasonably I would say - neither option is super reliable.

So the reality is that the squad isn't as good / deep as some began to believe it was earlier in the season and once again, we can trace that back to the summer. Many thought we'd buy a defender in the summer, we didn't. Many thought or should I say desperately hoped that we'd buy an attacker in the summer, we didn't. We spent all summer trying to replace Endo and didn't. We're now seeing the very real consequences of some of those decisions.

Klopp and co laid a very decent foundation for the incoming manager but no doubt they were some pretty big shoes to fill. Given that I thought we'd collapse after Klopp left, can't really complain too much about how things gone.

There are points of concern - e.g. Fark's small time mentality observation, the weird contract stand-offs etc - but if we're all honest, we knew the squad needed work. We just have to hope that this summer the club will show the right level of ambition.

Quansah & Chiesa would have benefited from more minutes - arguably McConnell and Morton as well.

 

[keniget]

Elliot and Endo both have zero starts in the Prem this season so far.
Meaning this entire season we've only rotated four players in midfield (Jones, Gravy, Szob and Mac) . It's technically just three because who has been rotating with Gravy?

We had the chance to buy a midfielder in Jan and we didn't
We had the chance to sell Nunez in Jan and we didn't.

This two week implosion is on Slot imo. Luckily, we're still on track for the league, but if it wasn't for City's collapse, they'd be champions this year too.

I think I'm Nunez' #1 hater and even I wouldn't have sold him in Jan.

I'm not sure how much the [lack of] transfers are on Slot. This has been a persistent issue under FSG.

The attitude of the team and the tactical approach, however, that's something entirely different.

 

[Farkmaster]

I think Gravy/endo is the biggest one. The squad should develop into having starting options of course, that are specced to slots needs, but you need to adapt around what you have and not ignore it.

I think Endos reimagining as some clumpy closer for five or ten is fucking insulting. I also think that it's as though slot is making judgments based on what players can do, as opposed to where they are at right now and what the state of play is.

For instance, gravy is the big difference maker last season to this. It's why we romped through the beginning of the season. An absolute revelation.

That gravy hasn't been around for a dozen games, but our team also hasn't been playing well in general. What has gravy been doing? Making blocks at the edge of the box. Getting stuck in. Being part of a pretty workmanlike midfield. At THAT job, Endo is a fine choice for 30 mins every game and some starts.

What is it with this club and trying to get a fucking dm for a million years, failing, finding an internal solution, and then playing them to destruction? No wonder none of them want to come here, you have to climb over the ligaments of bajetic on your way to the interview.

The same is true of Nuñez and jota. Jota was great with some pace around him getting the move started. He's not right now. He's not accomplishing anything. Yes, jotas ceiling is higher, yes he's miles better technically and nuñez is less suited for that role, but right now that's not the case. Slot never goes for a mace, he always picks the more elegant weapon. But we are drunk and stumbling around right now. Give a drunken man a mace. Or a war hammer. Or on the basis of that final, a flail.

 

[localny]

You can’t rebuild a team in one window. Especially one that hopefully wins the league.

It has to be a gradual process to be effective over 4 or 5 windows as Klopp did it. It’s just too much change otherwise and you’ll get some wrong. I hope it’s evolution not revolution.

Need to see if slots purchases will be good buys.

 

[peterhague]

Chiesa defo could've been given a few 20 minutes here and there to rest Salah or Diaz, whether it would've made much difference is debatable I suppose.

The bigger problem has been the midfield. All 3 of them look knackered. Mac I don't think is naturally the fittest guy in the world, so could've done with the rest. Grav has never played anything like this many minutes in a season before, and Szob runs a marathon every game. Endo, Elliott and Jones are all perfectly capable of filling in for one of those guys at a time without destroying the overall effect.

That kind of rotation is just mandatory if you're going to compete in multiple competitions. Now if Slot's just waiting until he has more players he trusts then fair enough, but I'm not a fan of this idea I've been hearing recently that he just "likes a smaller squad" of 14 or 15 players, and that's just how he rolls. Nah, that doesn't work. It's not the 1960s. You have to rotate. Klopp basically had a notional first XI, but virtually every game one or two would be drafted in just to manage things.

 

[Squiggles]

It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. Injuries to Bradley, Elliott, and Chiesa have caused disruption, but there's also a valid argument that the squad players haven't had the opportunity to build form. Slot himself hinted at only using certain players when the team is 5-0 up, which set a disappointingly dismissive tone early on regarding their ability to contribute compared to his preferred eleven. For me injuries are more concern than a lack of quality. Ultimately we have to balance having sufficient experience on the bench whilst also promoting a viable path into the first team for young players. Cutting it short, I think if we replaced Gomez and potentially Chiesa with experienced/fit/resilient players then things look rosier, but that's on top of everything else. They are the two experienced squad spots that we cannot rely on whatsoever. Elliott could fall into that, if Slot doesn't fancy him.

 

[Farkmaster]

You can’t rebuild a team in one window. Especially one that hopefully wins the league.

It has to be a gradual process to be effective over 4 or 5 windows

This is why sitting on your hands for window after window is problematic, and that's putting it lightly. If they can actually come out of this window well, I'll be very impressed.

 

[Brizzle]

Can't really disagree with you much @keniget but I do feel that at a minimum too many players play too many full 90s. Salah, Gravy, Macca especailly. I can see the big positives - we are going to win the league. But there are downsides in that we can't compete on other fronts in parallel.

 

[localny]

This is why sitting on your hands for window after window is problematic, and that's putting it lightly. If they can actually come out of this window well, I'll be very impressed.

You're right, but I can understand it though for the Jan 24 window (No sporting director, Klopp leaving), and Summer 24 windows, (new manager wants to see team first), less so for Jan 25.

 

[Fabio]

You're right, but I can understand it though for the Jan 24 window (No sporting director, Klopp leaving), and Summer 24 windows, (new manager wants to see team first), less so for Jan 25.

I don't understand it
Klopp leaving is an irrelevance. If the plan is for the higher ups to buy players for the manager to use, then we still buy players.
Slot coming in is no excuse either. I said it in the summer that the club were setting up slot to fail. Somehow he's defied them.
January comes and he's doing great. Nah, let's not strengthen. Just a team getting carried by 1 player. Zero chance we'll drop off under those conditions. I'm sure slot knows who he likes and who he doesn't like.
Give the manager tools and he can use them.

The ambition of this club at times is pathetic

 

[localny]

I don't understand it
Klopp leaving is an irrelevance. If the plan is for the higher ups to buy players for the manager to use, then we still buy players.
Slot coming in is no excuse either. I said it in the summer that the club were setting up slot to fail. Somehow he's defied them.
January comes and he's doing great. Nah, let's not strengthen. Just a team getting carried by 1 player. Zero chance we'll drop off under those conditions. I'm sure slot knows who he likes and who he doesn't like.
Give the manager tools and he can use them.

The ambition of this club at times is pathetic

There's no way they were buying in January 24 with no manager set-up, and no sporting director. But yeah, their "model" was worked with some managers but makes you wonder if it ultimately restricts the abilities of great managers to deliver.

 

[Brizzle]

I will hold back comments on ambition until this summer window closes. I can understand that Slot wanted to see the squad before dipping into the market, and January is hit & miss with player availability.

He knows where the gaps are now though, its evident from his team selections. We will see whether we back him at pace or not.

 

[Fabio]

I will hold back comments on ambition until this summer window closes. I can understand that Slot wanted to see the squad before dipping into the market, and January is hit & miss with player availability.

He knows where the gaps are now though, its evident from his team selections. We will see whether we back him at pace or not.

Managements ambition what shite under klopp. I don't see it changing under slot

 

[Brizzle]

Klopp signed (to name a few) a lot of players for quite large fees (at the time).

Salah, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Keita, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alisson, Thiago, Jota, Konate, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch

I don't think the ambition is as poor as you are suggesting. Hindsight is great and signing some of those players wasn't worth the gamble e.g. Ox, Thiago, Jota. But a lot of players that brought home major trophies were targeted and signed.

The job of management is also to provide the right challenge. How do we know that Klopp didn't say "I want Caicedo" and the management team said "we can get three great players for that price". Is that lack of ambition? Or is it actually being more ambitious?

 

[Fabio]

Klopp signed (to name a few) a lot of players for quite large fees (at the time).

Salah, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Keita, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alisson, Thiago, Jota, Konate, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch

I don't think the ambition is as poor as you are suggesting. Hindsight is great and signing some of those players wasn't worth the gamble e.g. Ox, Thiago, Jota. But a lot of players that brought home major trophies were targeted and signed.

The job of management is also to provide the right challenge. How do we know that Klopp didn't say "I want Caicedo" and the management team said "we can get three great players for that price". Is that lack of ambition? Or is it actually being more ambitious?

That's 16 players over a 8 year period. Most of which were when we were on the mud and struggling at the start. We also got lucky with a 130m departure. The last 3 in the list were bought because we lost *every* starting midfielder. Then we sat on our hands, regardless of circumstances.

We buy enough to challenge and hope the manager can get them playing above their level so we do more than challenge. There's been many windows where we've been left short, or let down, in key positions.

I am in no way fsg out, but I strongly believe they want to spend as little as they can get away with. I'm fully braced this summer to be short in a few positions, as well as spending more frugally on the positions we need

 

[King Binny]

View: https://x.com/michael_reid11/status/1901654212934590974

 

[darkstarexodus]

I understand and appreciate Slot starting a very small group of players almost every match.

What I can't sign off on is not subbing them when there are opportunities to do so. Saving those 10, 15, 20 minutes week after week has to add up to something. And provides more fitness and sharpness for the reserves when we need to be able to count on them.

 

[King Binny]

I think Gravy/endo is the biggest one. The squad should develop into having starting options of course, that are specced to slots needs, but you need to adapt around what you have and not ignore it.

I think Endos reimagining as some clumpy closer for five or ten is fucking insulting. I also think that it's as though slot is making judgments based on what players can do, as opposed to where they are at right now and what the state of play is.

For instance, gravy is the big difference maker last season to this. It's why we romped through the beginning of the season. An absolute revelation.

That gravy hasn't been around for a dozen games, but our team also hasn't been playing well in general. What has gravy been doing? Making blocks at the edge of the box. Getting stuck in. Being part of a pretty workmanlike midfield. At THAT job, Endo is a fine choice for 30 mins every game and some starts.

What is it with this club and trying to get a fucking dm for a million years, failing, finding an internal solution, and then playing them to destruction? No wonder none of them want to come here, you have to climb over the ligaments of bajetic on your way to the interview.

(All competitions)
From 23/24's 【43 apps (34 starts) 2758 mins】 to 24/25's 【26 apps (6 starts) 742 mins】

I remember he was so impressive I changed my avatar to the current one 😍😢

Dated Mar 2024 (before Man City's demise this season)


View: https://x.com/Tactical_Times/status/1766884636121083908

View: https://x.com/LFC/status/1767193529804042493

 

[keniget]

Klopp signed (to name a few) a lot of players for quite large fees (at the time).

Salah, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk, Keita, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alisson, Thiago, Jota, Konate, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo, Mac Allister, Szoboszlai, Gravenberch

I don't think the ambition is as poor as you are suggesting. Hindsight is great and signing some of those players wasn't worth the gamble e.g. Ox, Thiago, Jota. But a lot of players that brought home major trophies were targeted and signed.

The job of management is also to provide the right challenge. How do we know that Klopp didn't say "I want Caicedo" and the management team said "we can get three great players for that price". Is that lack of ambition? Or is it actually being more ambitious?

I think we've spent a little too much time sitting on our hands over the last few years.

And going further back in Klopp's reign, I firmly believe that we'd have one or two more major trophies had we had one or two more very good players to add depth to the squad.

 

[mark1975]

 

[mark1975]

 

[juniormember]

That’s horrific. Miss the days when if Salah didn’t score, Mane or Firmino would chip in. No wonder why we’ve looked so pedestrian in the last few games.

 

[Fabio]

Jesus fucking Christ

 

[Farkmaster]

Based on how we've played in the last several games I wouldnt expect much production out of our 9 or our left winger.

Luis Diaz isn't in form and has been played out of position for months. Then when he's been back where he does play, it's a desert around him. Only in small windows is there a fullback anywhere near him. Only Robbo has any interplay with him and it's pretty simplistic. Occasionally Curtis Jones, if he's playing will go out there. At his blistering best Diaz could make something from nothing, then follow up by making nothing of something. Right now though, it's stupid to expect him to do anything. There's zero movement for him to play off. That's all down the right, or often it's just not happening anywhere.

If we had a decent right winger as backup, they don't need to replace Salah or be as productive in output. You could get someone who could do more build up play, or someone who was faster than Salah and offered a threat in behind, or someone with better ball retention (throw a fucking rock and you'll hit someone) and then you can stop the whole team tending to the right and have more symetry. Also, since the midfield isn't out at right wing covering and supporting, you can have them either come centrally as we do when playing better, or you can even have them help on the left some. You can also play a striker as a striker, the most advanced on the team. You don't need to play a midfielder there or have the striker drop so deep to compensate.

 

[juniormember]

Based on how we've played in the last several games I wouldnt expect much production out of our 9 or our left winger.

Luis Diaz isn't in form and has been played out of position for months. Then when he's been back where he does play, it's a desert around him. Only in small windows is there a fullback anywhere near him. Only Robbo has any interplay with him and it's pretty simplistic. Occasionally Curtis Jones, if he's playing will go out there. At his blistering best Diaz could make something from nothing, then follow up by making nothing of something. Right now though, it's stupid to expect him to do anything. There's zero movement for him to play off. That's all down the right, or often it's just not happening anywhere.

If we had a decent right winger as backup, they don't need to replace Salah or be as productive in output. You could get someone who could do more build up play, or someone who was faster than Salah and offered a threat in behind, or someone with better ball retention (throw a fucking rock and you'll hit someone) and then you can stop the whole team tending to the right and have more symetry. Also, since the midfield isn't out at right wing covering and supporting, you can have them either come centrally as we do when playing better, or you can even have them help on the left some. You can also play a striker as a striker, the most advanced on the team. You don't need to play a midfielder there or have the striker drop so deep to compensate.

Diaz isn’t making much movement himself. He doesn’t necessarily have to have support from his fullback in this instance (though it would obviously be nice) and could easily pass to a midfielder and start making instant runs for the return, which he pretty much never does. When was the last time we saw him doing a quick one-two instead of his constant running with the ball to nowhere?
Jones has always pissed me off with his ‘holding onto the ball as long as possible because I’m boss’ approach, but Diaz is on a different level with regards to that. He gets on my tits.
Regarding number 9, I think the best we can hope for is finding an intelligent forward in the summer who can do a false 9 when necessary, because our midfielders as good as they are, are not creators. Apart from Elliot who’s not going to be getting game time unfortunately.