Sal-ittihad
- Thread starter Fabio
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Get Bakayoko in in Jan - PSV aren’t getting through the CL Group stage - they’re in with Arsenal, Sevilla & Lens - I’d say the best they’ll get is 3rd and into Europa with us.
He can be registered for Europe, there’s the FA Cup and he can be blooded in a higher class league, with plenty of Dutch players round him (I know he’s Belgian… but that just means he couldn’t make up his mind if he was French or Dutch).
He’s not going to cost a fortune. I think the Athletic article states he falls short of our threshold of “senior games” played metrics - this to me is the risk/gamble that Klopp is taking about - he’s on the trajectory, just not quite there yet, but a risk potentially worth taking.
He’ll sign - if we want him to. Potentially Doak could be loaned out next season without impacting EPL HG or UEFA HG classifications.
If Salah fucks off in the summer - so be it - but as I’ve stated numerous times, I’m happy for him to stay, till his contract runs out and leave on a free if his output isn’t diminishing - that’s not sentimentality - it’s just counting - there are some players you wring every last bit of goodness out of.. because they’re so fucking good.
We’ve revamped our forward line & midfield rather well and rather quietly - defence next - and it doesn’t need much - 2 CB’s and we’re done.
I know some people have a hard on for signing a RB that’s never going to play unless Trent dies (because he’s absolutely fucking not replacing Mac A or Slobbers in MF on the basis of he played there when he was 14) - if we are it’s because Sepp, Ramsey & Bradley aren’t good enough and we should be offloading them for some other guy to sit on the bench and play the odd League Cup game (or we just retain Gomez & buy 2 CB’s!!!!!).
He can be registered for Europe, there’s the FA Cup and he can be blooded in a higher class league, with plenty of Dutch players round him (I know he’s Belgian… but that just means he couldn’t make up his mind if he was French or Dutch).
He’s not going to cost a fortune. I think the Athletic article states he falls short of our threshold of “senior games” played metrics - this to me is the risk/gamble that Klopp is taking about - he’s on the trajectory, just not quite there yet, but a risk potentially worth taking.
He’ll sign - if we want him to. Potentially Doak could be loaned out next season without impacting EPL HG or UEFA HG classifications.
If Salah fucks off in the summer - so be it - but as I’ve stated numerous times, I’m happy for him to stay, till his contract runs out and leave on a free if his output isn’t diminishing - that’s not sentimentality - it’s just counting - there are some players you wring every last bit of goodness out of.. because they’re so fucking good.
We’ve revamped our forward line & midfield rather well and rather quietly - defence next - and it doesn’t need much - 2 CB’s and we’re done.
I know some people have a hard on for signing a RB that’s never going to play unless Trent dies (because he’s absolutely fucking not replacing Mac A or Slobbers in MF on the basis of he played there when he was 14) - if we are it’s because Sepp, Ramsey & Bradley aren’t good enough and we should be offloading them for some other guy to sit on the bench and play the odd League Cup game (or we just retain Gomez & buy 2 CB’s!!!!!).
I still strongly believe the Salah money (if we get any) should go mostly to the defence/DM overhaul. Yes we will probably want another 'PL ready' attacker to fill the void, but if we replace like-for-like we end up with the same problems.
I'd actually be in favour of looking at someone out of favour like Trossard plus world class players at the back.
I'd actually be in favour of looking at someone out of favour like Trossard plus world class players at the back.
Can you show me the metric your basing “he doesn't do what he did three years ago from the right” on please - because it’s not goals or assists.
Fine - if you want to do “eye test” - but otherwise you’re talking nonsense - however you want to split it out.
You’re heading in the direction of “all he does is score and create goals” territory.
I'm basing it on my eyes. Do you think he scores as many goals or assists as he used to by loitering on the half way line.
The reason he doesn't is because he's slower.
Another more frequent goal he used to score with far more regularity was to cut in on his left and curl it top corner. He tries that every single game still. It is far more often blocked, and far more often missed. He should stop doing it, by the percentages.
Coutinho did the same and that goal left him too. It's a goal scored by the first yard of pace you have and then you get spotted a yard by the sheer fear that the opposition have, so he can't hit the ball with the same pace, so it's tamer and less succesful.
Opponents don't have that same amount of fear, and he isn't obligatorily doubled as he always was three years ago. He's not as effective one on one.
All I'm saying is we've already replaced those things, or maybe we haven't, but we've adapted a new attack around a new reality. Salah has adapted too, at least in part. This Salah dropping deep and more central and allowing someone faster than him to do the last bit? Every time he threads a ball for nunez to blow by some fool and hit it (and he actually scores) is salah replacing himself.
The reason he doesn't is because he's slower.
Another more frequent goal he used to score with far more regularity was to cut in on his left and curl it top corner. He tries that every single game still. It is far more often blocked, and far more often missed. He should stop doing it, by the percentages.
Coutinho did the same and that goal left him too. It's a goal scored by the first yard of pace you have and then you get spotted a yard by the sheer fear that the opposition have, so he can't hit the ball with the same pace, so it's tamer and less succesful.
Opponents don't have that same amount of fear, and he isn't obligatorily doubled as he always was three years ago. He's not as effective one on one.
All I'm saying is we've already replaced those things, or maybe we haven't, but we've adapted a new attack around a new reality. Salah has adapted too, at least in part. This Salah dropping deep and more central and allowing someone faster than him to do the last bit? Every time he threads a ball for nunez to blow by some fool and hit it (and he actually scores) is salah replacing himself.
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He was actually scoring a decent amount of goals for Fiorentina...
Let's say that next summer we have the option to take a world class forward (Mbappe, Vinicius, Messi, for example) on loan for a single season. We have to pay a loan fee of £100m+ and wages of £300k-£400k plus bonuses.
Would you do that deal? (not just asking Stevie but generally).
Because that's broadly the same as letting Mo run his contract down rather than selling him next summer. And that's the test that the club, Klopp, FSG will essentially be taking.
I love the guy, but if he's going to run his contract down it would be madness not to sell him next summer, or even in January.
And this is exactly what we've all moaned about over Bobby, Gini, Divock and even Emre fucking Can over the last few years.
Would you do that deal? (not just asking Stevie but generally).
Because that's broadly the same as letting Mo run his contract down rather than selling him next summer. And that's the test that the club, Klopp, FSG will essentially be taking.
I love the guy, but if he's going to run his contract down it would be madness not to sell him next summer, or even in January.
And this is exactly what we've all moaned about over Bobby, Gini, Divock and even Emre fucking Can over the last few years.
Entirely possible.
I get that there's lots of moving parts to the equation. He maybe wouldn't get as many years at the hypothetical higher rate, blah, blah, blah. But the point is it's not ultimately up to us, so you'd hope there was some sort of open dialogue to discuss expectations on both sides.
Yeah, I'd expect that would be happening, and I also imagine if we were to cut Ramy in for 10% of the sale fee (still allowed under the new FIFA regs) then he might advise Mo to move on if that was what we thought was best.
Decent, but not other worldly, like when he got here.
I reckon we find a winger who's 1) pacey, 2) 23ish 3) averages around 10 goals (ish) a season.
Yep, that's the blueprint I'm following too.
stop gap for a season or three while we are looking
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Still takes on players and scores, maybe not curling it in to the top left corner of the net now, but has added assists more regular to his game
I’m sorry mate, that’s all nonsense.
I’d love to see evidence of how much he’s slowed down - I’m sure he has because of age, but, it’s not significant - he might not be Nunez level, but he’s still rapid.
This nonsense about how he never cracks a worldy into the top corner when he cuts in on his left is another nonsense - he did it a couple of times and now everyone expects him to do it every other game.
Who were our best players for the first half of last year, by the way - Elliot, Alisson?
I don’t get it - if we change the system to have a more central attacker and push Salah out wide where he’s not going to score - why are we complaining about him not scoring?
Yet when we try to replicate the false 9 system, whereby space is created for him to run into, his pace, technique and finishing make him our best attacking outlet again.
Are you actually arguing that Salah hasn't slowed down and is still as good as he ever was? Or are you just being contrary for the sake of it?
Surely it's not that hard to just type out Bryan Mbuemo?
I see what you’re saying - but I don’t quite see it in the same way.
If we could get Mbappe Vinicius or Messi for a season on a free transfer and £300k wages a week and they’d guarantee the return Salah has consistently without changing our entire way of playing - then yes I would - absolutely.
Your loan fee is a bit naughty - if that’s the fee we get for selling Salah, then no - because we’re back to square one - it’s a pointless exercise.
If we were able to get Saka or maybe Vinicius at the same price as we sold Salah, on similar wages, but on a long term contract, I’d wish Salah all the best and thank him for his service.
I know it’s hypothetical - but it’s not worth the upset for one season - I’d rather bring in a youngster like Bakayoko to understudy him for 18 months.
We can sort the defence out next summer and given how we’ve effectively replaced all the oldies, if Salah was to go for free the following summer - he’s pretty much the only replacement cost we’d have.
We have to sell Salah by next season.
We sold Hendo and Fab and undeniably came out better for it. It's only 4 games but look at how much more protection we have had in midfield because we have the legs for it now.
Selling Salah, getting in a younger forward and a top class CB ain't bad. It will be Coutinho all over again if our scouts can get their heads out of their asses.
2 more szoboslai alike signing in RWF and CB and we will win the league.
We sold Hendo and Fab and undeniably came out better for it. It's only 4 games but look at how much more protection we have had in midfield because we have the legs for it now.
Selling Salah, getting in a younger forward and a top class CB ain't bad. It will be Coutinho all over again if our scouts can get their heads out of their asses.
2 more szoboslai alike signing in RWF and CB and we will win the league.
Well no - I explicitly stated I’m sure he has slowed down - those are the words I typed - I just don’t know by how much - because the last few games I’ve seen him, he’s had plenty of pace to unsettle defences.
On the question of is as good as ever - again it depends on how you want to answer that - you can tell me you don’t think he’s playing as well and I can tell you he’s scoring and assisting as much as he ever has (bar his first season).
So what’s important - whether he looks good or whether he scores or sets up colleagues?
You tell me.
But the loan fee is absolutely the crux of the matter here. If Salah were at another club, no way would we do that deal to have him for one season. And as has been said, we can't guarantee he won't do his cruciate on 1 September next year and be no use to us so even with him there's no guarantees.
The point of the loan fee in my hypothesis is to mirror the effect of not selling him (in the same way getting in another forward for one year mirrors the effect of keeping him). If we sell him in the Summer, we're (possibly) £100m to the good. If we don't, we lose £100m, but gain another year of the player.
If I'm at the club, I would absolutely sell him next Summer (or even in January if the price is right). The only thing that would change that for me is if he signs a new contract before then. All selling does is bring forward the question of succession by 12 months, but it gives us the financial means to address that issue more effectively.
He’s obviously lost some pace and can’t burn past defenders in the way that he used to.
And whilst he’s still our best attacker, he’s not as good as he used to be.
The idea that the drop off is insignificant because he’s still putting up numbers is stupid.
If you can't see that salah is a less explosive player then I don't know what I can talk about with you. It happens to every single player.
I don't expect him to crack a worldy every game, but his ability to generate his own goals is down, and I've watched him waste possession in an unbelievable amount of games trying a shot that is now way lower percentage.
Again. People, we are going to have to replace him either way. You want to do it a year later and with far less money, fill your boots.
You don't often make recommendations, so what stands out with this kid? What's the advantage he has over Simons who is the same age but interms of production, far better
I really like Simons, but he's right footed.
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