Sal-ittihad

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I've met with a few expats before in Shanghai. First impressions wise, most of them were superficial snobs. Except the teachers. They're a bit more decent and authentic. Only a little. The ones who can speak mandarin, i find are the most down to earth and fun to mingle with.

But nothing compares with the young, rich chinese punks who grew up in the West, studied in ivy league unis and have just returned home to launch their own startups or take over daddy's company. You'll find loads of them at The Bund's party scene. I didn't really like Shanghai after that.

 

[Frogfish]

That explains the potential benefits for mncs to their host countries in the developing world. I'd say it's a pretty sympathetic view, especially assuming that the governments in question are on the ball, but I'm not asking to make a value judgement, because that's been discussed to death, I'm asking to describe the nature of the relationship.

What I mean is that simply arguing for their benefits doesn't make them not colonial. Indeed, the same argument could be made (and were, very vociferously) for colonial interests, and both phenomena often occured in the same places, often without cessation, often with similar countries involved, based on historical relationships.

Obviously arguments to benefits were more tenable in some places than others. Some colonial enterprises were downright exploitative and violent, the same is true of the worst mncs, and the reverse is also true.

Well if you can't or won't accept the symbiotic nature of the relationship and insist on calling it 'neo-colonialism' then I'd check your definition of colonialism. Because the MNCs aren't in China to control anything, it's pure capitalism, marketing and sales. They are here because of the benefits I laid out in post #990 and for access to the massive Chinese market.

The value to China is clear as in many spheres their previously nascent or antiquated industries are now mature enough, and have modernised enough, to compete with and in many cases usurp, the MNCs they learnt from.

 

[Frogfish]

It is bulshit. I'm so sick and tired of it, i'm thinking of quitting and going freelance or starting my own consultancy. Or go live on a mountain up in Nepal or something.

But then i realize that's what i've known for the last 20 years, and have never not worked for an MNC.

Will i make it on my own ? Have i got enough saved up for the rainy day(s) ? What if there's another pandemic or the rumoured great depression hits ? What if a zombie apocalypse breaks out when bitcoin halves next year ?

The more i think of it, the more daunting it gets. But i know i'll never forgive myself if i die one day knowing i've not given it a shot living the life that i was called for, and living others' dreams instead.

I dont know you or your capabilities / personality but I started and ran 3 different businesses with varying degrees of success (2x great, 1x just barely making a living) and if you have the skills to fall back on if it all goes tits up, or if your prospects don't align with the your ambitions, then go for it.

 

[Frogfish]

I've met with a few expats before in Shanghai. First impressions wise, most of them were superficial snobs. Except the teachers. They're a bit more decent and authentic. Only a little. The ones who can speak mandarin, i find are the most down to earth and fun to mingle with.

But nothing compares with the young, rich chinese punks who grew up in the West, studied in ivy league unis and have just returned home to launch their own startups or take over daddy's company. You'll find loads of them at The Bund's party scene. I didn't really like Shanghai after that.

Pre-covid Shanghai had a huge expatriate community and whilst there is / was a cliche such as that you described, there is also a very wide gammut of expat sub-communities based on family status, income / position, nationality and sports / arts etc. Pretty much what you'd find in any community anywhere.

Shanghai is bloody awesome! It's not difficult to find your own niche / community, as you would do in any humongous city.

 

[dogboy]

You're right. In this case I intended "all" to mean "all my in laws and a shit load of others too".

Apologies for the generalisation - I hate cunts like me

Anyway, everyone knows that John Wayne's most accurate role was that of Genghis Khan.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I dont know you or your capabilities / personality but I started and ran 3 different businesses with varying degrees of success (2x great, 1x just barely making a living) and if you have the skills to fall back on if it all goes tits up, or if your prospects don't align with the your ambitions, then go for it.

What sort of businesses if you don't mind me asking ? besides relocation.

 

[Frogfish]

What sort of businesses if you don't mind me asking ? besides relocation.

I owned a shop (treading water whilst my wife qualified for UK passport) and we owned two restaurants in Austria.

 

[StevieM]

I owned a shop (treading water whilst my wife qualified for UK passport) and we owned two restaurants in Austria.

What sort of shop and what was your level of involvement In the restaurants.

I’m a nosey bastard - so you don’t have to answer.

I’ve never had enough capital behind me to have my own business - closest I got was setting up an Aussie ABN (business number for tax etc) and planning to set up a sort of consultancy whereby I’d do in-store customer tastings for wineries and breweries, work festivals, etc, with the idea of developing into writing wine lists for restaurants and doing staf training, etc

I was looking at this in between jobs, but started with the company I currently work for before ilI really got into it.

don’t think it was quite right - but there’s probably a viable operation there - I just don’t have the vision to build it.

 

[Frogfish]

What sort of shop and what was your level of involvement In the restaurants.

I’m a nosey bastard - so you don’t have to answer.

I’ve never had enough capital behind me to have my own business - closest I got was setting up an Aussie ABN (business number for tax etc) and planning to set up a sort of consultancy whereby I’d do in-store customer tastings for wineries and breweries, work festivals, etc, with the idea of developing into writing wine lists for restaurants and doing staf training, etc

I was looking at this in between jobs, but started with the company I currently work for before ilI really got into it.

don’t think it was quite right - but there’s probably a viable operation there - I just don’t have the vision to build it.

Children's designer wear.

Owner, manager, matre'd, waiter, purchaser, book keeper - practically everything bar cook! Started with one restaurant and it went so well we opened another to prevent competition. Never worked so hard in my life!

Maybe try your ideas on the side, you never know how big the market is until you give it a go!

 

[Atlas]

The Bund partt scene
* laughs in Punjabi*

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

calm down Asim.

 

[StevieM]

Children's designer wear.

Owner, manager, matre'd, waiter, purchaser, book keeper - practically everything bar cook! Started with one restaurant and it went so well we opened another to prevent competition. Never worked so hard in my life!

Maybe try your ideas on the side, you never know how big the market is until you give it a go!

Yeah… like I’ll have any free time ever again!!! 😀

 

[Farkmaster]

Well if you can't or won't accept the symbiotic nature of the relationship and insist on calling it 'neo-colonialism' then I'd check your definition of colonialism. Because the MNCs aren't in China to control anything, it's pure capitalism, marketing and sales. They are here because of the benefits I laid out in post #990 and for access to the massive Chinese market.

The value to China is clear as in many spheres their previously nascent or antiquated industries are now mature enough, and have modernised enough, to compete with and in many cases usurp, the MNCs they learnt from.

Symbiosis is a great word to use, if you understand the range of relationships that entails.

Surely you can't think the nature of the relationship is fundamentally mutually beneficial? So sure, China has the power to manage foreign investment, and has done quite abruptly at times. Do you think that relationship between peer and near-peer powers is the useful part of this argument?

What about Africa, not known for meeting your caveat of having incorruptible, well-run governments looking out for the best interests of their citizens. Parasitism is symbiosis too. The world is competing for influence there due to useful labor demographics, labor costs, unique natural resources, etc. Etc. You don't hear any echo at all?

 

[Frogfish]

Symbiosis is a great word to use, if you understand the range of relationships that entails.

Surely you can't think the nature of the relationship is fundamentally mutually beneficial? So sure, China has the power to manage foreign investment, and has done quite abruptly at times. Do you think that relationship between peer and near-peer powers is the useful part of this argument?

What about Africa, not known for meeting your caveat of having incorruptible, well-run governments looking out for the best interests of their citizens. Parasitism is symbiosis too. The world is competing for influence there due to useful labor demographics, labor costs, unique natural resources, etc. Etc. You don't hear any echo at all?

Well that's rather an abrupt tangent. The conversation in this thread is about China and has always been about China. Each country or region is a completely different conversation.

As for the relationship between China and MNCs being 'fundamentally mutually beneficial' ; of course it is, both are getting what they want out of the relationship / investment and in some cases it's even weighted towards China with reversion of technology to them after a set period of time and with the local management becoming more Chinese once they have gained the requisite education and experience in their fields as expatriates are slowly removed from the management chain.

In addition to all the other benefits I've already mentioned.

In some instances it is/was greatly beneficial to both parties (the contract being between the MNCs & the Chinese Govt.),.

 

[Woland]

I dunno about what drives MNCs decisions beyond the incessant accelerationist principles that seem to be doing more harm than good, with the profits benefiting an ever decreasing amount of stakeholders, but I think if they're investing in China now, it's to take advantage of a sophisticated workforce and infrastructure, as labour costs are now cheaper in Mexico, and the political tensions are much less too.

 

[Frogfish]

I dunno about what drives MNCs decisions beyond the incessant accelerationist principles that seem to be doing more harm than good, with the profits benefiting an ever decreasing amount of stakeholders, but I think if they're investing in China now, it's to take advantage of a sophisticated workforce and infrastructure, as labour costs are now cheaper in Mexico, and the political tensions are much less too.

This is very true. The Chinese workforce is very well educated and now experienced (same applies to Vietnam). This was a major factor in so many MNCs basing themselves in China (along with access to the domestic market).

 

[Farkmaster]

Well that's rather an abrupt tangent. The conversation in this thread is about China and has always been about China. Each country or region is a completely different conversation.

This thread is about Salah... and Saudi Arabia.

Your sales pitch that I didn't find appealing was a dream of living in an expat community in a villa with a pool and heading to... Bahrain.

I found it odd that you were constantly going back to China as your reference and now I see we aren't even having the same conversation.

 

[Frogfish]

This thread is about Salah... and Saudi Arabia.

Your sales pitch that I didn't find appealing was a dream of living in an expat community in a villa with a pool and heading to... Bahrain.

I found it odd that you were constantly going back to China as your reference and now I see we aren't even having the same conversation.

So nothing to do with you bringing up Africa then? Gotcha.

 

[Farkmaster]

So nothing to do with you bringing up Africa then? Gotcha.

No, I now understand it's exclusively about China, it was a mistake for me to think it was a conversation about mncs and the nature of their relationship to less developed countries. I mean, that's what I came in with off the bat, but I was confused. This is about China, because that's what you'd prefer.

Stay on topic boys in the sal-ittihad thread. Any attempt at broader discussion isnt allowed in this curriculum reform. It's a will he won't he for Salah, and also a rose tinted trip down memory lane for frogfish. Its idyllic, like a villa and a pool somewhere in the burbs.

 

[Frogfish]

No, I now understand it's exclusively about China, it was a mistake for me to think it was a conversation about mncs and the nature of their relationship to less developed countries. I mean, that's what I came in with off the bat, but I was confused. This is about China, because that's what you'd prefer.

Stay on topic boys in the sal-ittihad thread. Any attempt at broader discussion isnt allowed in this curriculum reform. It's a will he won't he for Salah, and also a rose tinted trip down memory lane for frogfish. Its idyllic, like a villa and a pool somewhere in the burbs.

Childish. But understandable. This is how some people react to having their beliefs opposed.

Quite obviously you object to someone commenting on their areas of knowledge / expertise, whilst you proclaim your anachronistic attitude of equating all MNC investment to neo-colonialism on a global stage (as opposed to taking each country in isolation).

I shouldn't have bothered engaging with you, now I understand why no one else did.

 

[Fabio]

Wait, this discussion was about china?

Why the fuck is it about china?

What the fuck have i missed when it started about why people go to the middle east/ the sheltered life for a loss of morals, or a the very least questionable morals

 

[localny]

Comedic moment to change the course of this thread…

Lads. Don’t forget if the Saudi’s sign Cesar as well, then the team will be leading the line for lunchtime kickoffs with Cesar—Salah up front

 

[Frogfish]

Wait, this discussion was about china?

Why the fuck is it about china?

What the fuck have i missed when it started about why people go to the middle east/ the sheltered life for a loss of morals, or a the very least questionable morals

Go waaay back to where Farky asks about MNCs and neo-colonialism.

 

[Hansern]

 

[peekay]

Easyrider?

 

[Farkmaster]

Go waaay back to where Farky asks about MNCs and neo-colonialism.

Yeah, look for the part where we all mutually agree we have limited the discussion to China. Then pm me while you're back in time and tell me this is a sad waste of time. Also, since you're back then, you've got to do something about dbs heart. There's still time for it. Since you've got time travel, maybe you could do a magic school bus mixed with millennium falcon in the asteroid thing. Pew pew plaque lasers gooo.

 

[Hyena]

Talking about replacements...



He's been lighting it up for Sociedad this season. 3 goals already this season.

Has had a mixed few years since joining Real, so he's obviously not a "quality-guaranteed" player yet. I can't help thinking that in terms of position, pressing, speed and confidence he's the perfect fit in Salah's position.

 

[bluebell]

Talking about replacements...



He's been lighting it up for Sociedad this season. 3 goals already this season.

Has had a mixed few years since joining Real, so he's obviously not a "quality-guaranteed" player yet. I can't help thinking that in terms of position, pressing, speed and confidence he's the perfect fit in Salah's position.

I mentioned him already, €60m release clause of which Real Madrid takes 50%

[article]
Takefusa Kubo eyed up by Real Madrid after finding best level


04/09/2023 Upd. at 11:25 CEST
Carlo Ancelotti is very pleased with the squad he has, but he only has three forwards, and one of them, the most decisive one, Vinicius, is injured. Only the goal-scoring breakthrough of new arrival Jude Bellingham masks this deficiency, as Rodrygo and Joselu, the other two attackers, miss chances frequently. However, when one looks at the league's top scorers' list, behind the Englishman, who leads with five goals, there are three players who passed through Castilla (Real Madrid's B team) and then moved up to the first team: Kubo, Morata, and Willian José, each with three goals.

But it's the Japanese player who stands out the most after finding a team where he can exploit his best footballing qualities. The continuity provided by Imanol Alguacil at Real Sociedad has allowed him to grow and become increasingly important. He's ironing out his flaws and refining his strengths, and one of them is his accuracy in front of goal. His performances are starting to shine, drawing the attention of top-tier teams that see a player maturing and becoming profitable with goals.

Real Madrid has been monitoring him since they transferred him to Real Sociedad in the summer of 2022 for just six million euros, retaining 50% of his rights. At 22 years old, he still has a lot of room for improvement, making his development worth keeping an eye on with the possibility of bringing him back. The Basque club placed a 60 million euro release clause on him, and Madrid would have to pay half, 30 million, to bring him back into their fold. This option is not ruled out if the Japanese player maintains his upward trajectory.


Kubo showed promise last season, scoring nine goals and providing nine assists, but his explosive start to this campaign has put him in the spotlight with three goals and one assist. The Japanese player, who came through Barcelona's youth system, is open to joining Real Madrid after several teams showed interest in him this summer, although none made a decisive move like Napoli did. Now, it's Real Madrid that could benefit from his good work at Real Sociedad and follow in the footsteps of Odegaard to return to the Bernabéu.
[/article]
22/23 Season
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{thead}
{tr}
{th}Played as...{/th}
{th} GP{/th}
{th}G {/th}
{th}A {/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Second Striker{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Right Winger{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{/tr}
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{td}Centre-Forward{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}2{/td}
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{tr}
{td}Attacking Midfield{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}1{/td}
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{td}Left Winger{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Right Midfield{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}1{/td}
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[/xtable]

 

[Atlas]

I'm here for the petty.

And the convo, in my mind at least, most certainly was about MNCs and their relationship with their host country on a generic level and not specifically China/Shanghai.

 

[Fabio]

I'm here for the petty.

And the convo, in my mind at least, most certainly was about MNCs and their relationship with their host country on a generic level and not specifically China/Shanghai.

Thats where i was. I didn't think it was narrowed to laser like precision of just china