sack Rafa

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1033826#msg1033826 date=1263481221]
Are there still people who think Benitez shouldn't be sacked?
[/quote]

* Raises hand*

I don't want Rafa to be sacked just yet.
I would give him until the summer and then make the call but as I posted in another thread, I would say that a final decision has already been made on his future.

 

[The Slugmonster]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033805#msg1033805 date=1263480538]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=38437.msg1033803#msg1033803 date=1263480399]


Oh and Rebel you can stop using consistently qualifying for the CL as an excuse for rafa because any manager that comes here would be expected to do the same thing.....and hence would bring in the prize money with qualification!
[/quote]

yeah and if they dont we'll just keep sacking them and losing £15-20m each time and spending nothing on players, then we'll be relegated

it's dead easy this

[/quote]

Whats dead easy? Its dead easy for you to be ignorant!! So when the next manager comes in you'd prefer if "must at least qualify for the fair play intertoto place each season" to be written in his contract?
You see unfortunately this club has standards and the CL is the minimum that most of us are willing to put up with, if you want to basque in the glory of the europa league then by all means do, but dont tell me that we're wrong for pointing out Rafas flaws and by calling for his head!!...also the odd trophy would be nice but that hasnt happened since the fa cup (yes you'll probaby include the community shield so i said id stick it in) in 2006 and with no CL football looking more likely by the game next season then this will be Rafas worst season. Ged didnt see a sixth year so why should Rafa see a seventh based on on two trophies in six years and when he has the team playing depressingly shit football! Time for him to step down me thinks. The king is upstairs and could surely step up for the rest of the season! At least he might actually get the players playing again. Because as i said and has been said elsewhere in this thread...this club has standards!!

 

[Whitey85]

Why do you keep banging on about the 'calibre' of Benitez? Hes been sacked before hasn't he? Some managers do brilliantly at one place and not so well at others. I really don't know what to think but if Rafa gets sacked he can have no complaints. This season has been a complete and utter fucking disgrace and hes the boss.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38437.msg1033854#msg1033854 date=1263481983]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033851#msg1033851 date=1263481865]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38437.msg1033843#msg1033843 date=1263481716]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033837#msg1033837 date=1263481554]
what chelsea have spent hiring and firing managers would sink a club like Liverpool because we don't have a billionaire Russian underwriting it.

So again I reiterate, it's not the way forward

[/quote]

Yes because replacing one manager immediately turns into Real Madrid or Chelsea.
[/quote]

it's a slippery slope as I say the caliber of the manager will be highly likely less than we have now so when he comes under severe pressure and has fuck all resources and performs poorly, we will want him sacked and so it continues until eventual ruin


[/quote]

It's amazing you can sense doom two years from now, yet miss it when it's right under your nose.

And on the contrary, Rebel, I'd say the owners have been extremely faithful to Rafa in recent times. I see no reason why this wouldn't continue.
[/quote]

it's not amazing, it's quite logical when you think about it and look beyond your own prejudices and the accepted wisdom

 

[Squiggles]

LOL

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033878#msg1033878 date=1263482489]


it's quite logical when you think about it and look beyond your own prejudices and the accepted wisdom

[/quote]


Hahahaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa. You. have. got. to. be. kidding. me

If that statement applies to anyone it's you rebel

 

[Stulikesdrums]

But the 'caliber' of Benitez is not as high as you think Rebel.
His record in the Premiership will show you this.
I am in a terrible mood today. I am edgy and highly likely to snap.
Reading your contributions to this thread are not helping me at all.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=38437.msg1033861#msg1033861 date=1263482165]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033805#msg1033805 date=1263480538]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=38437.msg1033803#msg1033803 date=1263480399]


Oh and Rebel you can stop using consistently qualifying for the CL as an excuse for rafa because any manager that comes here would be expected to do the same thing.....and hence would bring in the prize money with qualification!
[/quote]

yeah and if they dont we'll just keep sacking them and losing £15-20m each time and spending nothing on players, then we'll be relegated

it's dead easy this

[/quote]

Whats dead easy? Its dead easy for you to be ignorant!! So when the next manager comes in you'd prefer if "must at least qualify for the fair play intertoto place each season" to be written in his contract?
You see unfortunately this club has standards and the CL is the minimum that most of us are willing to put up with, if you want to basque in the glory of the europa league then by all means do, but dont tell me that we're wrong for pointing out Rafas flaws and by calling for his head!!...also the odd trophy would be nice but that hasnt happened since the fa cup (yes you'll probaby include the community shield so i said id stick it in) in 2006 and with no CL football looking more likely by the game next season then this will be Rafas worst season. Ged didnt see a sixth year so why should Rafa see a seventh based on on two trophies in six years and when he has the team playing depressingly shit football! Time for him to step down me thinks. The king is upstairs and could surely step up for the rest of the season! At least he might actually get the players playing again. Because as i said and has been said elsewhere in this thread...this club has standards!!
[/quote]

our expectations follow the finances. Benitez has said clearly that the priority is to pay off debt and not necessarily financing players and a competitive team so if we want CL every year we have to invest or we have to be a bit cleverer about it, maybe a bit inconsistent and think long term, how to compete long term by finding the players at the right level for us at the right price for us and also developing the youth system something Benitez has only been able to get a grip on since the summer

If you think any of this is easy, or if you think anyone but Benitez can do a better job then you're sincerly wrong and infected with the Newcastle fan mentality

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033888#msg1033888 date=1263482747]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=38437.msg1033861#msg1033861 date=1263482165]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033805#msg1033805 date=1263480538]
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=38437.msg1033803#msg1033803 date=1263480399]


Oh and Rebel you can stop using consistently qualifying for the CL as an excuse for rafa because any manager that comes here would be expected to do the same thing.....and hence would bring in the prize money with qualification!
[/quote]

yeah and if they dont we'll just keep sacking them and losing £15-20m each time and spending nothing on players, then we'll be relegated

it's dead easy this

[/quote]

Whats dead easy? Its dead easy for you to be ignorant!! So when the next manager comes in you'd prefer if "must at least qualify for the fair play intertoto place each season" to be written in his contract?
You see unfortunately this club has standards and the CL is the minimum that most of us are willing to put up with, if you want to basque in the glory of the europa league then by all means do, but dont tell me that we're wrong for pointing out Rafas flaws and by calling for his head!!...also the odd trophy would be nice but that hasnt happened since the fa cup (yes you'll probaby include the community shield so i said id stick it in) in 2006 and with no CL football looking more likely by the game next season then this will be Rafas worst season. Ged didnt see a sixth year so why should Rafa see a seventh based on on two trophies in six years and when he has the team playing depressingly shit football! Time for him to step down me thinks. The king is upstairs and could surely step up for the rest of the season! At least he might actually get the players playing again. Because as i said and has been said elsewhere in this thread...this club has standards!!
[/quote]

our expectations follow the finances. Benitez has said clearly that the priority is to pay off debt and not necessarily financing players and a competitive team so if we want CL every year we have to invest or we have to be a bit cleverer about it, maybe a bit inconsistent and think long term, how to compete long term by finding the players at the right level for us at the right price for us and also developing the youth system something Benitez has only been able to get a grip on since the summer

If you think any of this is easy, or if you think anyone but Benitez can do a better job then you're sincerly wrong and infected with the Newcastle fan mentality
[/quote]

As I said earlier : 'The fucking Yanks' (TM)

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1033821#msg1033821 date=1263481076]
I don't care what anyone says, suck on this beauty. MON is a much better Manager than Benitez. Anyone who says otherwise is bellend clinging to bellendness.

[/quote]

Absolute rubbish

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033888#msg1033888 date=1263482747]


If you think any of this is easy, or if you think anyone but Benitez can do a better job then you're sincerly wrong and infected with the Newcastle fan mentality
[/quote]

Will you fuck off with your Newcastle analogy. No-one thinks the job is easy nor what he's had to work with has been brilliant. Nor has it been shabby either though.

Yet again, I reiterate HE DOES NOT MAKE THE BEST OF WHAT HE HAS. There is no excuse for that. Managers like Roy Hodgson do (and before you open your pipe I'm not advocating Hodgson)

What you're saying there is effectively only Rafa Benitez can save our club which is a sad deluded narrow minded and highly skewed view on it. You're making things up as you go along now.

 

[singlerider]

So - 'nobody in the world can do a better job than Benitez'.

If you disagree, you're a Newcastle fan.

Please guys, can't we just fucking ban him for a week or two?

You know it makes sense

 

[manwithnoname]

I don't understand why Headwand keeps referring to 'a Newcastle fan mentality'

What have LFC or their fans got in common with Newcastle?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=38437.msg1033894#msg1033894 date=1263483061]
So - 'nobody in the world can do a better job than Benitez'.

If you disagree, you're a Newcastle fan.

Please guys, can't we just fucking ban him for a week or two?

You know it makes sense
[/quote]

It's like us saying "Actually only rebel has the correct opinion on this". Which would clearly be lunacy

 

[Oncy]

Why are people arguing with Charlie Babbitt?
He's a fucking mental.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=38437.msg1033897#msg1033897 date=1263483143]
Why are people arguing with Charlie Babbitt?
He's a fucking mental.

[/quote]

Aye, that's true like.

 

[gene hughes]

It is, there's no point.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

ok - so we all disagree with rebel (well most us) but can we stop attacking the postER?

cheers

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=38437.msg1033902#msg1033902 date=1263483219]
It is, there's no point.
[/quote]*high five*
we need to school these fools Gene.
You may as well try to nail jelly to the ceiling as talk sense to that crackpot.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1033818#msg1033818 date=1263481017]
Exactly Vlad.

If City were not in the equation, i'd be very confident of a top 4 finish again this season.

Unfortunately they've come in and spent what Rafa's total gross spend is in two seasons.
[/quote]

I suspect we'll be talking about 'gross spend' and 'net spend' when we're languishing in 9th place in May.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38437.msg1033768#msg1033768 date=1263478452]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033764#msg1033764 date=1263478185]
Get MON in, sell Torres and bring Heskey and Petrov, we'll be back to world class performances in no time


[/quote]

A manager does his best with the resources available to him so that's a ridiculous suggestion. MON has managed Villa with a fraction of the resources that Rafa has had.
[/quote]

MON?

Hell, even Moyes has done better.

 

[rebel23]

Sunny, the newcastle fan mentality refers to the 'right' some fans think we have of being up there when these days we struggle to complete a free transfer or 6 month loan and you have the likes of city with NO constraints. If you think we should be competing for CL spots much less the league on free transfers, loan signings and youth products then you have to give the manager a bit of leeway and expect inconsistency, if we adopt the newcastle fan mentality and think it's all the managers fault and REPLACING him will make us superior without looking at the underlying causes or the bigger picture then we will end up hiring and firing managers frequently and im afraid in a lot worse position than we are now

If you can't see the logic of this then that's not my problem

As for Benitez, very few managers would put up with what he does and make a success of it, infact im surprised he hasn't walked yet rather than being hung out to dry by the two broke yanks. if he does we will be in a worse position but im sure a few posters will feel smug until the next run of poor results

 

[Richey]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=38437.msg1033904#msg1033904 date=1263483283]
ok - so we all disagree with rebel (well most us) but can we stop attacking the postER?

cheers
[/quote]

I only said he was deluded, repetitive, boring and laughable after he had a go at me on another thread (which he then repeated on here) so sorry but as a victim he doesn't really encourage a lot of sympathy

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033934#msg1033934 date=1263484326]
Sunny, the newcastle fan mentality refers to the 'right' some fans think we have of being up there when these days we struggle to complete a free transfer or 6 month loan and you have the likes of city with NO constraints. If you think we should be competing for CL spots much less the league on free transfers, loan signings and youth products then you have to give the manager a bit of leeway and expect inconsistency, if we adopt the newcastle fan mentality and think it's all the managers fault and REPLACING him will make us superior without looking at the underlying causes or the bigger picture then we will end up hiring and firing managers frequently and im afraid in a lot worse position than we are now

If you can't see the logic of this then that's not my problem

As for Benitez, very few managers would put up with what he does and make a success of it, infact im surprised he hasn't walked yet rather than being hung out to dry by the two broke yanks. if he does we will be in a worse position but im sure a few posters will feel smug until the next run of poor results



[/quote]

I suspect you'll get creamed for this post, but i think their's a fair bit of truth in what you said there.

 

[rebel23]

I'm past caring, if people actually think about what im saying then they will see the points im trying to make rather than give me dogs abuse for daring to disagree with the mob

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1033943#msg1033943 date=1263484598]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033934#msg1033934 date=1263484326]
Sunny, the newcastle fan mentality refers to the 'right' some fans think we have of being up there when these days we struggle to complete a free transfer or 6 month loan and you have the likes of city with NO constraints. If you think we should be competing for CL spots much less the league on free transfers, loan signings and youth products then you have to give the manager a bit of leeway and expect inconsistency, if we adopt the newcastle fan mentality and think it's all the managers fault and REPLACING him will make us superior without looking at the underlying causes or the bigger picture then we will end up hiring and firing managers frequently and im afraid in a lot worse position than we are now

If you can't see the logic of this then that's not my problem

As for Benitez, very few managers would put up with what he does and make a success of it, infact im surprised he hasn't walked yet rather than being hung out to dry by the two broke yanks. if he does we will be in a worse position but im sure a few posters will feel smug until the next run of poor results



[/quote]

I suspect you'll get creamed for this post, but i think their's a fair bit of truth in what you said there.
[/quote]

You would, Raf.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033934#msg1033934 date=1263484326]
Sunny, the newcastle fan mentality refers to the 'right' some fans think we have of being up there when these days we struggle to complete a free transfer or 6 month loan and you have the likes of city with NO constraints. If you think we should be competing for CL spots much less the league on free transfers, loan signings and youth products then you have to give the manager a bit of leeway and expect inconsistency, if we adopt the newcastle fan mentality and think it's all the managers fault and REPLACING him will make us superior without looking at the underlying causes or the bigger picture then we will end up hiring and firing managers frequently and im afraid in a lot worse position than we are now [/quote]

This is a good point, well made too.
I don't agree with it but at least you took the time to expalin yourself in a coherant manner.

In this instance a lot of people are looking the squad and realising that without Torres and Gerrard, we are a very average group of players, some better than others obviously. Who should be blamed for that Rebel? The manager.
He is the man charged with identifying a formation and style of play and then picking players to play to the strengths of his chosen system. Can you honestly say you see any style of play in our side? How many chances did we create against Reading, not even clear cut chances. There 'keeper did not have to pull off any heroics to keep them in it. There centre halves didn't even have to have AMAZING games, they all just did their job and help there positions, we couldn't break them down.

The fact is that we are not competing for the league just with free signings and loan players we have players in the squad that cost money, a lot of money, two of the most recent additons are an 18mil right back and a 17 mil centre mid. Rafa spent a lot of money this summer, you can't get away from that fact.

Newcastle ended up sacking manager after manager because in most cases they appointed the wrong manager. I mean who fucking hires Souness, Guillet or Fat Sam? They deserve all they get. At least when we gave Souness the nod he wasn't as much of a laughing stock as he was when Newcastle hired him. It'll be up to our board to make sure the right man is appointed and when he is appointed it is up to them to give him resources (which Rafa has had) and time to make an impression on the squad (which Rafa has had).

 

[manwithnoname]

OK, Wandy, here's another simple question:

Do you think Benitez is doing a good job as manager of Liverpool?

Don't bother quacking on about net spend, CL qualification, wages, Oligarchs or yank cunts

Simply prod "yes" or "no"

 

[rebel23]

as ever Stu it's not so black and white

we spent 17m on a right back because 1) we needed one 2) we need to sign the best English players because of the UEFA quota

we spent 17m on Aquilani because we needed to replace Alonso

We didnt net spend anything, we haven't replaced Keane from last year, a fatal mistake. we have just sold another striker (although shit and frozen out) and wont be replacing him, so the board are repeating the mistake, they're betting the house on Torres being fit. if Benitez could he would sign a better striker

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033970#msg1033970 date=1263486014]
as ever Stu it's not so black and white

we spent 17m on a right back because 1) we needed one 2) we need to sign the best English players because of the UEFA quota

we spent 17m on Aquilani because we needed to replace Alonso
[/quote]

Ok so one post we are surviving on loan deals and free transfers and the VERY NEXT POST you freely admit Rafa has spent money this summer and a lot of too.

Right ok. I'm out.