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sack Rafa

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Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033656#msg1033656 date=1263472337]
AND you're making an assumption our next manager will be worse than Benitez. You're not a clairvoyant. And I don't need to be to see the way were playing and subsequents is/are shite.
[/quote]

they will almost certainly be a worse calibre than Benitez and long term this would show at some point, with you and others wanting them sacked and so it goes on until eventual ruin
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033642#msg1033642 date=1263471634]
some of you are being completely kneejerk surprise surprise

We should stick with Benitez for a number of reasons not least there aren't any better candidates. when things go wrong the manager is a massive target but he is the one who has to put a brave face on things and try and solve the problems both short term and long term. A lot of managers wouldn't last 5 minutes at Liverpool and a period of sacking a manager every 6 months when we can't afford it like Chelsea is just going to destroy us
[/quote]

How do you work that one out? You're saying that there is NO other manager in the country who can get a team of international players who cost millions of pounds to beat a team that is 21st in the Championship?

Its hardly a kneejerk reaction. Some people have been doubting Benitez for a long time now you know

Yesterday's result isn't the only reason he should go, but it is the latest. And I'm afraid the blame rests firmly with the manager. You can't blame the owners for this one I'm afraid rebel.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Richey link=topic=38437.msg1033660#msg1033660 date=1263472595]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033642#msg1033642 date=1263471634]
some of you are being completely kneejerk surprise surprise

We should stick with Benitez for a number of reasons not least there aren't any better candidates. when things go wrong the manager is a massive target but he is the one who has to put a brave face on things and try and solve the problems both short term and long term. A lot of managers wouldn't last 5 minutes at Liverpool and a period of sacking a manager every 6 months when we can't afford it like Chelsea is just going to destroy us
[/quote]

How do you work that one out? You're saying that there is NO other manager in the country who can get a team of international players who cost millions of pounds to beat a team that is 21st in the Championship?

Its hardly a kneejerk reaction. Some people have been doubting Benitez for a long time now you know

Yesterday's result isn't the only reason he should go, but it is the latest. And I'm afraid the blame rests firmly with the manager. You can't blame the owners for this one I'm afraid rebel.
[/quote]

No I'm not saying that because I dont look at one or two results in the cup, i'm saying no other manager in the country can take the Liverpool job, deal with the pressure, expectations and budget and whoever it is will be less experienced than Benitez or have a worse track record than him so logically it makes no sense
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033659#msg1033659 date=1263472552]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033656#msg1033656 date=1263472337]
AND you're making an assumption our next manager will be worse than Benitez. You're not a clairvoyant. And I don't need to be to see the way were playing and subsequents is/are shite.
[/quote]

they will almost certainly be a worse calibre than Benitez and long term this would show at some point, with you and others wanting them sacked and so it goes on until eventual ruin

[/quote]

Yet again massive assumption. How long is long term ? He hasn't done it up now - what makes you think going forwards he can rectify the situation ? How long is enough ?
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033663#msg1033663 date=1263472750]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033659#msg1033659 date=1263472552]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033656#msg1033656 date=1263472337]
AND you're making an assumption our next manager will be worse than Benitez. You're not a clairvoyant. And I don't need to be to see the way were playing and subsequents is/are shite.
[/quote]

they will almost certainly be a worse calibre than Benitez and long term this would show at some point, with you and others wanting them sacked and so it goes on until eventual ruin

[/quote]

Yet again massive assumption. How long is long term ? He hasn't done it up now - what makes you think going forwards he can rectify the situation ? How long is enough ?
[/quote]

I'm talking about whoever the board appointed, Kinnear, Curbishley, whoever it was wouldn't be the way forward so there's more to it than 'sack him'
 
Re: sack the cunt.

Where does he begin to fail? When do you stop making excuses for him?

The League
The CL
The Cup
The 2nd rate Cup

Now you're onto

4th
The Europa League


Next year without either of those, what of the top players? The Americans are going to want their blood money, so is that Stevie and Nando?

Then what?

Top half and the Junior Cup

Dont worry, he'll turn it around, give him a chance FFS.

He's jumped Beechers Brook, landed awkwardly and needs the bolt to stop him quivering.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033665#msg1033665 date=1263472921]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033663#msg1033663 date=1263472750]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033659#msg1033659 date=1263472552]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033656#msg1033656 date=1263472337]
AND you're making an assumption our next manager will be worse than Benitez. You're not a clairvoyant. And I don't need to be to see the way were playing and subsequents is/are shite.
[/quote]

they will almost certainly be a worse calibre than Benitez and long term this would show at some point, with you and others wanting them sacked and so it goes on until eventual ruin

[/quote]

Yet again massive assumption. How long is long term ? He hasn't done it up now - what makes you think going forwards he can rectify the situation ? How long is enough ?
[/quote]

I'm talking about whoever the board appointed, Kinnear, Curbishley, whoever it was wouldn't be the way forward so there's more to it than 'sack him'

[/quote]

You're talkinh shite rebel. You're making a massive assumption we're going to appoint a tinpot manager. You talk about ruin - we're nearly ruined NOW.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033479#msg1033479 date=1263461356]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=38437.msg1033474#msg1033474 date=1263460661]
I would very genuinely consider the option of Dalglish for the rest of the season.

I'm well aware of the pitfalls in that, but I would give him the job nonetheless, and then get Capello or Mourinho *shudder* in the/ at the end of the summer
[/quote]

That's how bad it's getting though. I'm that disheartened that I'd actually take Mourinho as an option. And I can't stand the man.
[/quote]

That's the very reason why I have come round to the idea, sort of....
 
Re: sack the cunt.

turned-the-corner.jpg
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033668#msg1033668 date=1263473156]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033665#msg1033665 date=1263472921]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033663#msg1033663 date=1263472750]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033659#msg1033659 date=1263472552]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033656#msg1033656 date=1263472337]
AND you're making an assumption our next manager will be worse than Benitez. You're not a clairvoyant. And I don't need to be to see the way were playing and subsequents is/are shite.
[/quote]

they will almost certainly be a worse calibre than Benitez and long term this would show at some point, with you and others wanting them sacked and so it goes on until eventual ruin

[/quote]

Yet again massive assumption. How long is long term ? He hasn't done it up now - what makes you think going forwards he can rectify the situation ? How long is enough ?
[/quote]

I'm talking about whoever the board appointed, Kinnear, Curbishley, whoever it was wouldn't be the way forward so there's more to it than 'sack him'

[/quote]

You're talkinh shite rebel. You're making a massive assumption we're going to appoint a tinpot manager. You talk about ruin - we're nearly ruined NOW.
[/quote]

only because of the yanks, Benitez has given 5 years of the CL and long runs in it too, do you really hand on heart see them appointing someone of a better calibre than that? a better track record?. No, they won't, they CAN'T.

Lets remember the last time the kneejerkers were out they were going to appoint Klinsmann so you might feel good in the short term but believe it can get a lot worse
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033657#msg1033657 date=1263472454]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033653#msg1033653 date=1263472212]
No rebel I won't and I haven't up to this point with Benitez. He's had enough time. It's clear he can't get the best out of what he has. I wanted him to succeed and I always believe he does what he believes is best for the club. But he's failed. So he should go. I want the Yanks out too. They can all fuck off for all I care.
[/quote]

you should be careful what you wish for, Benitez has proven to be a top class and experienced manager and should be given the patience and time to fix the problems over the long term. So who do you want to come in? someone like Curbishley? who do you think they will appoint? do you actually think they can succeed and do better?

[/quote]

Possibly. On the other side someone could come in and maybe bring the team together and motivate them? Ive no idea who they would appoint but im sure someone out there could get more out the players than Rafa is right now.

How long is long term? Hes been here 6 years now and this current team is lacking direction and still a million miles away from the finished article it should be after the number of transfers that have taken place in this period of time.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

Seriously, if this thread is going to continue can we please change the title.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=38437.msg1033676#msg1033676 date=1263473482]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033657#msg1033657 date=1263472454]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033653#msg1033653 date=1263472212]
No rebel I won't and I haven't up to this point with Benitez. He's had enough time. It's clear he can't get the best out of what he has. I wanted him to succeed and I always believe he does what he believes is best for the club. But he's failed. So he should go. I want the Yanks out too. They can all fuck off for all I care.
[/quote]

you should be careful what you wish for, Benitez has proven to be a top class and experienced manager and should be given the patience and time to fix the problems over the long term. So who do you want to come in? someone like Curbishley? who do you think they will appoint? do you actually think they can succeed and do better?

[/quote]

Possibly. On the other side someone could come in and maybe bring the team together and motivate them? Ive no idea who they would appoint but im sure someone out there could get more out the players than Rafa is right now.

How long is long term? Hes been here 6 years now and this current team is lacking direction and still a million miles away from the finished article it should be after the number of transfers that have taken place in this period of time.
[/quote]

he has still given us 5 years in the CL and good runs in it too which is worth a lot to the club and sustains the yank owners. They and you are deluded if you think we have a right to this (especially with city emerging) and that just appointing any old manager who will take the job will be fine.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

Just a thought, but if we don't win a trophy this season (which its looking very much like we won't!) Benitez will have gone 4 full seasons winning nothing.
Evans, Souness and Houllier were all considered failures to varying degrees. Did any of them ever go that long without winning anything?
 
Re: sack the cunt.

So, if we lose on saturday. Will Rafa be gone?

I think nearly every other club would have sacked their manager already if they had been in our situation.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033679#msg1033679 date=1263473819]

he has still given us 5 years in the CL and good runs in it too which is worth a lot to the club and sustains the yank owners. They and you are deluded if you think we have a right to this (especially with city emerging) and that just appointing any old manager who will take the job will be fine.
[/quote]

I think you need to look at the number of defeats this season before you call anyone deluded. Are the results acceptable for you? Calling people knee jerk after a season of being beaten by shit side after shit side isn't fair. Something is very wrong with this team and maybe a new manager can come in with his own ideas and sort it out. Theres no guarantees but i think change is needed on the evidence of this seasons displays.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Richey link=topic=38437.msg1033677#msg1033677 date=1263473493]
Seriously, if this thread is going to continue can we please change the title.
[/quote]
^

It's not suitable at all.

Anyways beeing knocked out of the FA Cup is never funny and especially not when it happens like it did last night, but it's by no means the end of the world either.

I'd be far more worried if we are going to lose at Stokes. Heck, even United seemed rather unfuzzed about beeing knocked out by a League One outfit at home and they haven't won anything yet this Season either.

It'll be a tough match against Stoke obviously but also one where the players and manager can make a lot of things right. Win come Saturday and then beat Spurs and we're simply back on track. At least that's how I see it.

Doing well in the Premiership is everything that matters to me at this point. I'd be disappointed to be knocked out of the Europa League but I'd still take a win over the Stokes and Burnleys if I were to choose.

We haven't seen the last surprise in the League this Season and hopefully we'll be lining ourselves up to be a part of the positive surprises in the second half of the Season.

PS We still haven't played one single Premiership-game in 2010, after ending 09 with to stsraight wins, and you're already calling for the managers head? It's kind of confusing.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

Rebel. Who the fuck said we had any right to the CL ? I didn't . As you've alluded to CL money is needed to sustain the Yanks business model. Rafa isn't going to deliver that this year. And who the fuck said we should appoint "any old manager? Stop reading things that aren't there and twisting them to justify the argument that exists in your mind. The sheer affrontery of YOU calling anyone deluded is completely laughable.
 
Rebel, what would Rafa have to do to deserve being sacked in your mind?

I think our owners need to start looking for alternatives now, and be ready to bring someone in in the summer, if he doesn't turn it around, if not sooner if someone suitable were to be available.
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=38437.msg1033687#msg1033687 date=1263474452]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033679#msg1033679 date=1263473819]

he has still given us 5 years in the CL and good runs in it too which is worth a lot to the club and sustains the yank owners. They and you are deluded if you think we have a right to this (especially with city emerging) and that just appointing any old manager who will take the job will be fine.
[/quote]

I think you need to look at the number of defeats this season before you call anyone deluded. Are the results acceptable for you? Calling people knee jerk after a season of being beaten by shit side after shit side isn't fair. Something is very wrong with this team and maybe a new manager can come in with his own ideas and sort it out. Theres no guarantees but i think change is needed on the evidence of this seasons displays.

[/quote]

you need to look at the bigger picture is what im saying, yes this season we're being beaten by shit sides but last season we were smashing Real Madrid, so what is that evaluation worth? Maybe a new manager will come in and do worse and you'll be creating threads wanting him sacked, where will that get us? we cannot afford to go around sacking and appointing managers, would you rather Benitez put a brave face on things or someone like Curbishley or Klinsmann or whoever they would appoint who wouldn't be good enough in the long term anyway? I trust Benitez to put things right if he's backed I wouldn't trust their appointee to do the same
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38437.msg1033693#msg1033693 date=1263474853]
Rebel, what would Rafa have to do to deserve being sacked in your mind?

I think our owners need to start looking for alternatives now, and be ready to bring someone in in the summer, if he doesn't turn it around, if not sooner if someone suitable were to be available.
[/quote]

It can't carry on like this, and I understand why people want him sacked when there was much promise and it's been so catastrophic. I'm still torn in my own mind, but that's besides the point. There's a very real possibility that this season could get worse (it could also finish better than we expect), and if it does get worse, then we have to prepared for every eventuality. Obviously that doesn't mean whoring the club around behind Rafa's back, but we have to at least have the financial outlines in place.
 
Any old managers?
I like it when Rebel assumes the yanks would hire someone like Curbishley.

Mourinho, Rijkard are not that old you know.

Rebel and KHL defending our manager after that debacle.
6 years in charge and worst season.

Not sacking Rafa would be another mistake on both football and business perspective from the board.
They should never have given him such a good contract in the first place but I'd rather lose £15M now
Keeping Rafa could cost us £50M next season
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1033688#msg1033688 date=1263474459]

Anyways beeing knocked out of the FA Cup is never funny and especially not when it happens like it did last night, but it's by no means the end of the world either.

I'd be far more worried if we are going to lose at Stokes. Heck, even United seemed rather unfuzzed about beeing knocked out by a League One outfit at home and they haven't won anything yet this Season either.

It'll be a tough match against Stoke obviously but also one where the players and manager can make a lot of things right. Win come Saturday and then beat Spurs and we're simply back on track. At least that's how I see it.

Premiership is everything that matter to me at this point. I'd be dissapointed to be knocked out of the Europa League but I'd still take a win over the Stokes and Burnleys if I were to choose.

We haven't seen the last surprise in the League this Season and hopefully we'll be lining ourselves up to be a part of the positive surprises in the second half of the Season.

PS We still haven't played one single Premiership-game in 2010, after ending 09 with to stsraight wins, and you're already calling for the managers head? It's kind of confusing.
[/quote]

Yes it is the league that matters. And if we were beating teams in the league I wouldn't be too worried about going out of the cup. Everyone can have an off-day, like United did.

The problem is that the performance in both Reading games was typical. It was not an off-day.

You talk about getting back on track. When were were ever on track this season?
Sunderland, Fulham, Portsmouth, Spurs, Villa, Blackburn, Birmingham - 2 points out of that lot. And you wonder why people might be a bit less than impressed with Benitez?
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033691#msg1033691 date=1263474627]
Rebel. Who the fuck said we had any right to the CL ? I didn't . As you've alluded to CL money is needed to sustain the Yanks business model. Rafa isn't going to deliver that this year. And who the fuck said we should appoint "any old manager? Stop reading things that aren't there and twisting them to justify the argument that exists in your mind. The sheer affrontery of YOU calling anyone deluded is completely laughable.
[/quote]

if they sacked Benitez they would have to recruit someone, who do you think they're likely to recruit considering Klinsmann was their last choice and anyone they did recruit would want a 3-5 year contract to insulate themselves from kneejerk bellends at a high pressure job with no resources when things go wrong, which is very costly and which we can't afford anyway plus there's a good chance whoever it is wont have the record Benitez has - poor season notwithstanding - which means they could conceivably do worse.

As I said and I continue to say careful what you wish for.
 
You talk as if we sack managers on a weekly basis. Again you're assuming we'd appoint a shit and/or unproven manager rebel. How about assuming we'd replace him with a proven manager ? What happens to your Rafa justification then ?

It's not about "putting a brave face on". It's about putting the problems we have right. He's completely failing to get the best out of what he has - backing or not. I agree the Yanks haven't backed him appropriately at times but it does not excuse not getting the most out of what he has
 
What WILL it take before you believe it's time for Rafa to go then rebel? Answer that question please
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033702#msg1033702 date=1263475126]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033691#msg1033691 date=1263474627]
Rebel. Who the fuck said we had any right to the CL ? I didn't . As you've alluded to CL money is needed to sustain the Yanks business model. Rafa isn't going to deliver that this year. And who the fuck said we should appoint "any old manager? Stop reading things that aren't there and twisting them to justify the argument that exists in your mind. The sheer affrontery of YOU calling anyone deluded is completely laughable.
[/quote]

if they sacked Benitez they would have to recruit someone, who do you think they're likely to recruit considering Klinsmann was their last choice and anyone they did recruit would want a 3-5 year contract to insulate themselves from kneejerk bellends at a high pressure job with no resources when things go wrong, which is very costly and which we can't afford anyway plus there's a good chance whoever it is wont have the record Benitez has - poor season notwithstanding - which means they could conceivably do worse.

As I said and I continue to say careful what you wish for.


[/quote]

Rebel, as stern a backer as I've been of late in regards to Rafa, you make it sound (like alot of people on here) as though it's all down to the owners. One of the biggest impacts on our lack of resources has been Rafa's own stupidity in the transfer market.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=38437.msg1033699#msg1033699 date=1263475051]
Any old managers?
I like it when Rebel assumes the yanks would hire someone like Curbishley.

Mourinho, Rijkard are not that old you know.

Rebel and KHL defending our manager after that debacle.
6 years in charge and worst season.

Not sacking Rafa would be another mistake on both football and business perspective from the board.
They should never have given him such a good contract in the first place but I'd rather lose £15M now
Keeping Rafa could cost us £50M next season
[/quote]

Losing £15m would be a disaster and if you believe Mourinho would take a massive paycut and come and work for two broke yanks then more fool you. The actions you and your fellow kneejerkers are advocating could sink the club
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38437.msg1033708#msg1033708 date=1263475267]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=38437.msg1033702#msg1033702 date=1263475126]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1033691#msg1033691 date=1263474627]
Rebel. Who the fuck said we had any right to the CL ? I didn't . As you've alluded to CL money is needed to sustain the Yanks business model. Rafa isn't going to deliver that this year. And who the fuck said we should appoint "any old manager? Stop reading things that aren't there and twisting them to justify the argument that exists in your mind. The sheer affrontery of YOU calling anyone deluded is completely laughable.
[/quote]

if they sacked Benitez they would have to recruit someone, who do you think they're likely to recruit considering Klinsmann was their last choice and anyone they did recruit would want a 3-5 year contract to insulate themselves from kneejerk bellends at a high pressure job with no resources when things go wrong, which is very costly and which we can't afford anyway plus there's a good chance whoever it is wont have the record Benitez has - poor season notwithstanding - which means they could conceivably do worse.

As I said and I continue to say careful what you wish for.


[/quote]

Rebel, as stern a backer as I've been of late in regards to Rafa, you make it sound (like alot of people on here) as though it's all down to the owners. One of the biggest impacts on our lack of resources has been Rafa's own stupidity in the transfer market.
[/quote]

I'm not saying Benitez is blameless but he needs resources and the owners are to blame for that. we badly need a 2nd senior striker and have for year, the board have not provided it so David Ngog is the scapegoat. instead of getting one some think we can lose £15m sacking Benitez? come on now, this is totally and completely illogical
 
Re: sack the cunt.

[quote author=Richey link=topic=38437.msg1033700#msg1033700 date=1263475086]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1033688#msg1033688 date=1263474459]

Anyways beeing knocked out of the FA Cup is never funny and especially not when it happens like it did last night, but it's by no means the end of the world either.

I'd be far more worried if we are going to lose at Stokes. Heck, even United seemed rather unfuzzed about beeing knocked out by a League One outfit at home and they haven't won anything yet this Season either.

It'll be a tough match against Stoke obviously but also one where the players and manager can make a lot of things right. Win come Saturday and then beat Spurs and we're simply back on track. At least that's how I see it.

Premiership is everything that matter to me at this point. I'd be dissapointed to be knocked out of the Europa League but I'd still take a win over the Stokes and Burnleys if I were to choose.

We haven't seen the last surprise in the League this Season and hopefully we'll be lining ourselves up to be a part of the positive surprises in the second half of the Season.

PS We still haven't played one single Premiership-game in 2010, after ending 09 with to stsraight wins, and you're already calling for the managers head? It's kind of confusing.
[/quote]

Yes it is the league that matters. And if we were beating teams in the league I wouldn't be too worried about going out of the cup. Everyone can have an off-day, like United did.

The problem is that the performance in both Reading games was typical. It was not an off-day.

You talk about getting back on track. When were were ever on track this season?
Sunderland, Fulham, Portsmouth, Spurs, Villa, Blackburn, Birmingham - 2 points out of that lot. And you wonder why people might be a bit less than impressed with Benitez?
[/quote]
I understand it perfectly and I'm not particularly happy about him either, but I'll hold my final judgement untill I've seen then next couple of games in the league that's all.

Beeing knocked out of the FA Cup is never going to be the final straw for me no matter how pathetic we may have looked.

And the fact of the matter is that we've one two games on the trot in the League.
 
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