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Roy is not to blame

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[quote author=Portly link=topic=42100.msg1185549#msg1185549 date=1285926866]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=42100.msg1185525#msg1185525 date=1285925770]
The whole team is playing like shit.

Its not just hodgsons fault and torres fault.. its everyones
[/quote]

I agree. It's just too easy to blame the manager - small-time stuff and I am astonished how many respectable contributors to this forum are doing so.

I don't agree that Hodgson's tactics are to blame. He is not a magician who can make a weak and under-performing squad suddenly produce devastating football.
[/quote]

Agree with that though I must admit I expected Roy to give the players a little more freedom and for them to respond. Last season it was clear the players just weren't interested in playing for Rafa and their utterly soul-less performances were gut wrenching to watch. I thought it was a case of them just being exhausted from the detailed, constrictive performances they had to produce every week for year after year but there's clearly more to it.

I agree with the original post to some extent - Torres is coming back from injury and wasn't as sharp as he could have been at the start of the season. However, some of his performances have been woeful and I've found myself hoping on more than one occasion that Kuyt would go over and wipe the tears off his face as per a couple of seasons ago. He absolutely looks sorry for himself and convinced that he deserves far better in life. I hope there hasn't been a similar agreement to the one made with Mascher whereby Torres has been told to stick it out this season and he can make his own plans for the next one.
 
Neither you nor indeed Portly post often enough on here, but IMO you both let Roy off too lightly. No manager can give players what they don't already have, but nobody's expecting him to do that. Portly himself uses the word "underperforming", which I agree with and which says straight out that the players (most of them anyway) have more in their locker than they're producing on the field. Well, sorry but for my money that definitely locates at least part of the blame at the manager's door. It IS his ultimate responsibility if players underperform, even if it's a responsibility they share.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42100.msg1186267#msg1186267 date=1286032285]
Neither you nor indeed Portly post often enough on here, but IMO you both let Roy off too lightly. No manager can give players what they don't already have, but nobody's expecting him to do that. Portly himself uses the word "underperforming", which I agree with and which says straight out that the players (most of them anyway) have more in their locker than they're producing on the field. Well, sorry but for my money that definitely locates at least part of the blame at the manager's door. It IS his ultimate responsibility if players underperform, even if it's a responsibility they share.
[/quote]

Sorry JJ, didn't mean to let our newly appointed "worst manager ever" off the hook too lightly. 😉 To be honest I wasn't really trying to respond to that question but more on the Torres enigma which worries me even more.

I held Rafa responsible for the players dreadful performances last season and Roy has to abide by the same rules. Having said that it does say a little when two managers in succession have exactly the same problem with the players. They underperformed last season - and to a substantial degree. This season they are, if anything, failing even that standard and you have to wonder if at least part of the problem doesn't lie elsewhere.

Roy is still responsible for getting them to play to their potential but if it was Maureen who was unable to get them playing to their ability I doubt many would be pointing at him; me thinks there is something else in the mix and maybe the corporate aspect of the club is impinging on their performances more heavily than we think.
 
Could well be. If players are asked they always deny any connection in such circs, but I've never really believed that. The effect may be exacerbated in our case by Gerrard and Torres, linchpins of the side, both of whom IMO do love the club but have to be wondering WTF is happening to their careers overall.
 
I was as vocal as anyone in criticising Rafa, and at the end of his tenure I thought it was time for him to go.

I also thought that Roy might come in and keep things simple, motivate the players, and get everyone playing as a team again.

Sadly, things are probably even worse now than they were before.

As much as the ownership issue is a dark cloud hanging over the club, and as much as I desperately hope that once the deadline passes and RBS (hopefully) take the club back and flog it, you can't use these things as a catch-all excuse for everything.

4 things that used to fuck me off most about Rafa were:

- playing 2 defensive midfielders against inferior teams

- playing players out of position, when there was no real need to do so

- not making substitutions before 60 mins, no matter how dreadful we were playing

- not learning his lesson or recognising the bloody obvious

Well, Roy does all of these things, except kinda worse - with Lucas-Mascherano at least there was one very good player in the partnership. Rafa still did the odd Aurelio at LM, and consistently played Dirk on the right - but he was starting to take to the position. Meireles on the right isn't something we've seen the likes of for a couple of seasons under Rafa. Even when we're playing shit and everyone is calling out for something, *anything* to be done, Roy sits on the bench rubbing his fucking chin. And even though we've seen one of if not *the* worst midfield duo in Poulsen and Lucas enough to make us want to gouge our fucking eyes out, still he persists.

In the interests of equity, I lashed Rafa for all of these things, now Roy must deserve equal treatment.

I'm not gonna call for his head, but recently part of me has kind of been thinking "Come back Rafa . . . all some is forgiven"
 
Lads, if you just delete the words instead of crossing them out, then no one will see your mistake.
 
Furious Roy Hodgson hits out with Liverpool desperate for points
By JOE BERNSTEIN Last updated at 12:50 AM on 3rd October 2010

A defiant Roy Hodgson has described himself as 'one of the most respected coaches in Europe' and said it is 'insulting' to suggest he cannot handle Liverpool's big-name stars.
And in a strong message to the Anfield players, he indicated they must share the blame for Liverpool's indifferent start, claiming some of them are not living up to their reputations and have not played any better than his Fulham team did last season.
Hodgson's decision to go on the attack ahead of today's crucial game against Blackpool is at odds with his nice-guy image but supporters will say it leaves no doubt he has the steel for football's toughest job.

Well-respected: Roy Hodgson has hot out at his critics
But his comments represent a gamble with Liverpool currently near the bottom of the Premier League table, having picked up only six points from six games and fell into the bottom three after Everton's first league win yesterday. They were also embarrassingly knocked out of the Carling Cup by League Two Northampton Town.
Off-field problems will see fans demonstrate again today against American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett while the club could be taken over by the Royal Bank of Scotland this month if the owners default on a £280 million debt. Hodgson, 63, was widely seen as a safe pair of hands when he succeeded Rafa Benitez in the summer but the pressure has been building, with Fernando Torres struggling in front of goal and new signing Joe Cole failing to shine.
Nonetheless, the former Blackburn and Fulham boss is angered by suggestions he will have to change his management style to succeed at Liverpool. His previous biggest job came at Inter Milan in the mid-1990s.

Poor form: Fernando Torres is one of several Liverpool players who has failed to hot top form this season
'It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don't work when they've held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe. It's unbelievable,' he said.
'I've had two-and-a-half wonderful years (at Fulham) where nothing ever negative was said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It doesn't change anything. I work the same way as I did last year.
'My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well. I am doing the same things and the most important things to me are the players.
'We are six games into a 38-game season. I couldn't give a monkey's whether we're 16th or 18th at the moment. Be realistic, don't insult my intelligence with that. What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough games. I knew Arsenal with 10 men was going to be a tough game, so maybe six points isn't so bad at all. We are averaging two points from the other three.'
Significantly, Hodgson also called on Liverpool players to take more responsibility to go along with their reputations. Although 15 of the Anfield squad were picked by their countries for the World Cup, Hodgson does not seem to be over-impressed by some of them.
He said: 'I don't understand questions about Liverpool and Fulham players being different types. At the moment arguably one or two of the players that are suggested as being very different to the Fulham players maybe aren't playing any better than the Fulham players played. So maybe people should be having a look at that. If I can be accusatory of some journalists, I think they work on names and not on performances. A judgment is based on their name and not necessarily what they have actually done on the day.'

Backing the boss: Liverpool vice-captain Jamie Carragher supports Roy Hodgson
Hodgson's strong comments come only three months after he replaced Benitez, who left for Inter Milan with the club in chaos on and off the field. But he will have to back up his outburst with results, starting against a Blackpool side that shipped four goals at Chelsea and six at Arsenal.
At least Hodgson has received solid support from his vice-captain Jamie Carragher: 'People shouldn't forget about how Benitez and Gerard Houllier struggled to make an impact in the League when they first became manager. Liverpool is about winning trophies, but sometimes clubs go through times when they have to rebuild. Roy Hodgson is going through that.'
Holloway horsing around
Unlike the Liverpool boss Ian Holloway has been leading The Good Life recently.
In scenes reminiscent of Richard Briers in the classic sitcom, Holloway has been moving horses, chickens and dogs from Bath to a new family home.
He said: 'The fixation started when I got the sack at Leicester. We wanted to be a bit self-sufficient like Tom and Barbara.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317212/Furious-Roy-Hodgson-hits-Liverpool-desperate-points.html#ixzz11HRp5e3U
 
I think it's pretty safe to say that if the club is sold, then Roy won't last long with the results he's getting. If we're not sold though, he'll be here at least until the season is finished.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42100.msg1186495#msg1186495 date=1286094234]
From Halmstad, to Malmo to Neuchatel...God, how embarrassing is it that this old duffer is our manager?
[/quote]

Or this...

"What bothers me is that we have only got six points and I would have liked a few more. But then I knew Manchester United and Manchester City were going to be tough games. I knew Arsenal with 10 men was going to be a tough game, so maybe six points isn't so bad at all. We are averaging two points from the other three.'

Not so bad then eh Roy? Just write off the tough games and hope for an average of 2 points from the others. Brilliant.
 
Or this;

Hodgson was also quizzed on Meireles playing on the right.

He said: "We don't play with wingers. The way he plays and the way Joe Cole plays, we think (playing wide midfield) is more than suited to their qualities.


So, basically we're playing 4-2-2-1-1 then?!! With no width at all?!?! Great. No wonder we can't create anything or why we're constantly getting hit on the wings from our opponents. Keep it simple Roy. 4-4-2. Central midfielders, wingers and strikers. It's a pretty certain way to 3 points.
 
Said it before and I'll say it again: two CM players who naturally sit deep isn't an issue as long as they're not both, slow, useless, massive cunts.

If you are unfortunate enough to have two of the worst holding midfielders in the world, then playing them is folly, and deserving of the sack.

Thus, Meireles needs to play centrally with Gerrard, because they are the only two players we have capable of playing there
 
We dont play with wingers because we DONT HAVE ANY.

Now I'm not Roy's biggest fan, cos he's doing a shite job, but he's doing a shite job with a limited fucking squad.

He has no true LW, no true RW & he's played 4-4-2 from the start once, & we got our arses handed to us on a plate. It's hardly surprising he's reluctant to try it again.

I'm not mindlessly defending him, he's clearly not been good enough & has tactically outmatched by fucking everyone, but not everything is his fault.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=42100.msg1186508#msg1186508 date=1286097589]
We dont play with wingers because we DONT HAVE ANY.

Now I'm not Roy's biggest fan, cos he's doing a shite job, but he's doing a shite job with a limited fucking squad.

He has no true LW, no true RW & he's played 4-4-2 from the start once, & we got our arses handed to us on a plate. It's hardly surprising he's reluctant to try it again.

I'm not mindlessly defending him, he's clearly not been good enough & has tactically outmatched by fucking everyone, but not everything is his fault.
[/quote]

I think I'm down with this shit. You look to our squad for any width and it doesn't exist. That being the case we have two options.

1) Play with no wingers.
2) Play with wingers who aren't wingers.

Oh shit.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=42100.msg1186490#msg1186490 date=1286092753]

'My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well.
You're at Liverpool FC now Roy, not some tin pot little club!

Significantly, Hodgson also called on Liverpool players to take more responsibility to go along with their reputations. Although 15 of the Anfield squad were picked by their countries for the World Cup, Hodgson does not seem to be over-impressed by some of them.
He said: 'I don't understand questions about Liverpool and Fulham players being different types. At the moment arguably one or two of the players that are suggested as being very different to the Fulham players maybe aren't playing any better than the Fulham players played

He makes a fair point, most of them should be ashamed of the performances they've turned in so far this season.

[/quote]
 
That's an absolutely astounding article, and pretty much confirms my fears. I thought he might adjust his tactics a little to suit the new talent he has at his disposal, but it appears he is actually trying get us playing like Fulham.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=42100.msg1186515#msg1186515 date=1286097923]
That's an absolutely astounding article, and pretty much confirms my fears. I thought he might adjust his tactics a little to suit the new talent he has at his disposal, but it appears he is actually trying get us playing like Fulham.
[/quote]

'It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don't work when they've held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe. It's unbelievable,' he said.

Just look back at my away record with Fulham last Season, he didn't say. We had one glorious win away. I expect my new Liverpool team to match this feat at some stage during the season.
 
'It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don't work when they've held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe. It's unbelievable,' he said.

Just look back to my away record with Fulham, he doesn't say, I got 7 away wins in 3 seasons, thats an average of MORE than 2 wins a season, I'm well respected I am!
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=42100.msg1186512#msg1186512 date=1286097816]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=42100.msg1186490#msg1186490 date=1286092753]

'My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well.
You're at Liverpool FC now Roy, not some tin pot little club!

Significantly, Hodgson also called on Liverpool players to take more responsibility to go along with their reputations. Although 15 of the Anfield squad were picked by their countries for the World Cup, Hodgson does not seem to be over-impressed by some of them.
He said: 'I don't understand questions about Liverpool and Fulham players being different types. At the moment arguably one or two of the players that are suggested as being very different to the Fulham players maybe aren't playing any better than the Fulham players played

He makes a fair point, most of them should be ashamed of the performances they've turned in so far this season.

[/quote]


[/quote]

He does make a fair point, but he shouldn't be making it in public IMO. Our performances on the field aren't all his fault (though they are his responsibility) but his increasingly dire performance in the media is totally down to him and it really is time for Purslow to have a word.
 
Another own goal in the media for old Roy. It sounds like he's feeling the pressure and well.... rightly fucking so. If you don't want anyone to question you for languishing in the relegation spot after six games don't move to a big club.

It's funny how for all the nice guy of football talk before he moved here, I've found myself disliking him more and more as time goes.

Stop fucking waffling on in the media and start producing some results. No one wants to hear your excuses every day.
 
Roy seems easily hurt by aggressive questioning.

He must have known that expectations would be high at Liverpool.

Getting angry with the media is only going to intensify their questioning.
 
The very things we thought he would be good at, he's been shit at.

The things we thought he'd be shit at, well... we were right.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42100.msg1186609#msg1186609 date=1286108585]
When journalists ask you questions, you are expected to give answers.
[/quote]

I liked his reply to the question in the League Cup match.

He was asked (something like) 'Jonjo played very good and looked the part when he came on, he looks like having a bright future?'

Roys replay was ' Northampton were tired when he came on and made him look better than he is'

Look it up, thats MAN MANAGEMENT that is, thank fuck Rafa's gone
 
Yeah, after that he called Carragher a cunt and then went and fingered Reina's wife.
 
Budgie is prickly with the media because he knows that 99% of people think he's not good enough to be Liverpool manager, and deep down, knows we're right

Poor old Budgie
 
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