S
Squiggles
Guest
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
Roy is not to blame
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[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=42100.msg1185558#msg1185558 date=1285927758]
I guess I was hoping Roy would change his style of play given the superior players at his disposal.
[/quote]
I think we are kidding ourselves. OK, Schwarzer isn't quite as good as Reina and an in-form Torres is far better than any striker on Fulham's books. Gerrard is also better than any midfielder Fulham have got. On the other hand, Fulham have some better players in their positions than Liverpool have. For example, Hangeland is a better central defender than Skrtel, Agger or Carragher who is past his best. Fulham have a genuine wide player in Duff who is also past his best but we don't have a specialist winger at all.
So I don't think that Roy will be revelling in the fantastic choice of players to pick his team from.
I guess I was hoping Roy would change his style of play given the superior players at his disposal.
[/quote]
I think we are kidding ourselves. OK, Schwarzer isn't quite as good as Reina and an in-form Torres is far better than any striker on Fulham's books. Gerrard is also better than any midfielder Fulham have got. On the other hand, Fulham have some better players in their positions than Liverpool have. For example, Hangeland is a better central defender than Skrtel, Agger or Carragher who is past his best. Fulham have a genuine wide player in Duff who is also past his best but we don't have a specialist winger at all.
So I don't think that Roy will be revelling in the fantastic choice of players to pick his team from.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185593#msg1185593 date=1285931681]
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
[quote author=Portly link=topic=42100.msg1185599#msg1185599 date=1285931998]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=42100.msg1185558#msg1185558 date=1285927758]
I guess I was hoping Roy would change his style of play given the superior players at his disposal.
[/quote]
I think we are kidding ourselves. OK, Schwarzer isn't quite as good as Reina and an in-form Torres is far better than any striker on Fulham's books. Gerrard is also better than any midfielder Fulham have got. On the other hand, Fulham have some better players in their positions than Liverpool have. For example, Hangeland is a better central defender than Skrtel, Agger or Carragher who is past his best. Fulham have a genuine wide player in Duff who is also past his best but we don't have a specialist winger at all.
So I don't think that Roy will be revelling in the fantastic choice of players to pick his team from.
[/quote]
Leave it out mate. We've got a far better squad than Fulham's and Roy should be doing much better with it than what he actually is at present.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=42100.msg1185558#msg1185558 date=1285927758]
I guess I was hoping Roy would change his style of play given the superior players at his disposal.
[/quote]
I think we are kidding ourselves. OK, Schwarzer isn't quite as good as Reina and an in-form Torres is far better than any striker on Fulham's books. Gerrard is also better than any midfielder Fulham have got. On the other hand, Fulham have some better players in their positions than Liverpool have. For example, Hangeland is a better central defender than Skrtel, Agger or Carragher who is past his best. Fulham have a genuine wide player in Duff who is also past his best but we don't have a specialist winger at all.
So I don't think that Roy will be revelling in the fantastic choice of players to pick his team from.
[/quote]
Leave it out mate. We've got a far better squad than Fulham's and Roy should be doing much better with it than what he actually is at present.
So he purposely signed shit ones so that he *couldn't* play with wingers?
Cunning
Cunning
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42100.msg1185604#msg1185604 date=1285932142]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185593#msg1185593 date=1285931681]
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
[/quote]
Riera was a typical left winger. He played well for a period and he even kept the left wing for Spain through that period. He played very well for Spain in the same period. So somehow we have had the qualities in the team but not been able to use them properly.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185593#msg1185593 date=1285931681]
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
[/quote]
Riera was a typical left winger. He played well for a period and he even kept the left wing for Spain through that period. He played very well for Spain in the same period. So somehow we have had the qualities in the team but not been able to use them properly.
Reading this thread the accusation that we are having our expectations managed does seem to be nearer the truth than I'd thought . Is our squad really weaker in some key positions than Fulham's?
S
Squiggles
Guest
Despite everything, we should be doing better and accountability does fall at Roy's door. Expectations were always too high when he arrived, that much is clear - but we've seen too much depressing football and too many depressing post match interviews to not have deep concerns about the future of Roy Hodgson's Liverpool. I'm not expecting transformation over night, and I'm willing to be as patient as can be, but there's not been one positive sign that he's stamping his mark on the side in any way, shape or form. We look disorganised, lacking any sort of structure, rhythm or chemistry to our play. This is forgiveable to a point, but we're not even getting the fundamental basics right at the minute. We're not clearing our lines successfully; We're beaten to the air all the time in our box; Even our best players from last season look fucking shit; We're playing Meireles on the wing, whilst pairing Pucas together in the middle.
These aren't the minor flaws of someone who is learning the job and needs to make minor adjustments. They are deep lying flaws with both the manager and the players. Everyone needs to come together and to sort it out, because at the moment it's very concerning.
These aren't the minor flaws of someone who is learning the job and needs to make minor adjustments. They are deep lying flaws with both the manager and the players. Everyone needs to come together and to sort it out, because at the moment it's very concerning.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=42100.msg1185610#msg1185610 date=1285932289]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42100.msg1185604#msg1185604 date=1285932142]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185593#msg1185593 date=1285931681]
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
[/quote]
Riera was a typical left winger. He played well for a period and he even kept the left wing for Spain through that period. He played very well for Spain in the same period. So somehow we have had the qualities in the team but not been able to use them properly.
[/quote]
Wingers have pace.
Otherwise you're just a wide midfielder.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42100.msg1185604#msg1185604 date=1285932142]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185593#msg1185593 date=1285931681]
We don't play with wingers, Neil, because we haven't got any.
Benitez didn't sign one decent wide man in six years.
[/quote]
to be fair, that true.
[/quote]
Riera was a typical left winger. He played well for a period and he even kept the left wing for Spain through that period. He played very well for Spain in the same period. So somehow we have had the qualities in the team but not been able to use them properly.
[/quote]
Wingers have pace.
Otherwise you're just a wide midfielder.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Poulsen looks like a massive mistake mate, and the other CM we bought is being chucked on the wing!
Another example of Liverpool digging themselves into a deeper hole
Cf Alonso, Anelka, etc.
Another example of Liverpool digging themselves into a deeper hole
Cf Alonso, Anelka, etc.
The truth is definitely somewhere inbetween. I don't think the squad is as bad as Portly has made out (though outwide we're fucking awful), but I do think Roy is paying the price of some of Rafa's fuck ups. That said, he should make the most of what he's got, there's a 'good' first XI there that is capable of more than it's producing at present and continuing the theme of playing players out of position is doing him no favours, in light of why we got shut of Rafa.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42100.msg1185660#msg1185660 date=1285935501]
The truth is definitely somewhere inbetween. I don't think the squad is as bad as Portly has made out (though outwide we're fucking awful), but I do think Roy is paying the price of some of Rafa's fuck ups. That said, he should make the most of what he's got, there's a 'good' first XI there that is capable of more than it's producing at present and continuing the theme of playing players out of position is doing him no favours, in light of why we got shut of Rafa.
[/quote]
Well that was what he supposed to have told Cole, Torres and Stevie G a.o. He was public on how he wanted to use the players he had to their strengths. And that is something he has failed big time in doing, in my humble eyes!
The truth is definitely somewhere inbetween. I don't think the squad is as bad as Portly has made out (though outwide we're fucking awful), but I do think Roy is paying the price of some of Rafa's fuck ups. That said, he should make the most of what he's got, there's a 'good' first XI there that is capable of more than it's producing at present and continuing the theme of playing players out of position is doing him no favours, in light of why we got shut of Rafa.
[/quote]
Well that was what he supposed to have told Cole, Torres and Stevie G a.o. He was public on how he wanted to use the players he had to their strengths. And that is something he has failed big time in doing, in my humble eyes!
personally I think our troubles are because we are setting ourselves up to be defensive and we simply don't have the players for it. the likes of johnson are looking like cunts because they are being asked to defend more and attack less which is highlighting his weakness and hiding his strengths.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42100.msg1185682#msg1185682 date=1285938057]
personally I think our troubles are because we are setting ourselves up to be defensive and we simply don't have the players for it. the likes of johnson are looking like cunts because they are being asked to defend more and attack less which is highlighting his weakness and hiding his strengths.
[/quote]
I don't think that's necessarily true, has Johnson really been attacking less? He's just been playing shit.
personally I think our troubles are because we are setting ourselves up to be defensive and we simply don't have the players for it. the likes of johnson are looking like cunts because they are being asked to defend more and attack less which is highlighting his weakness and hiding his strengths.
[/quote]
I don't think that's necessarily true, has Johnson really been attacking less? He's just been playing shit.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42100.msg1185697#msg1185697 date=1285939783]
I don't think that's necessarily true, has Johnson really been attacking less? He's just been playing shit.
[/quote]
I agree. I don't think we have set out to play defensive tactics. It just looks that way because as an attacking force, we are so feeble. And without Mascherano, we don't have anybody as good to win the ball in midfield and prompt the attacking midfielders we do have.
I don't think that's necessarily true, has Johnson really been attacking less? He's just been playing shit.
[/quote]
I agree. I don't think we have set out to play defensive tactics. It just looks that way because as an attacking force, we are so feeble. And without Mascherano, we don't have anybody as good to win the ball in midfield and prompt the attacking midfielders we do have.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185613#msg1185613 date=1285932791]Expectations were always too high when he arrived, that much is clear
[/quote]
Were they... is it?
We finished 7th last season and most expected a tough fight to get back into the top four, which we may not end up winning.
What should have been our expectations for this season... a mid-table rivalry with the likes of Sunderland and Fulham? A relegation fight? What? Because this is genuinely baffling to me.
[/quote]
Were they... is it?
We finished 7th last season and most expected a tough fight to get back into the top four, which we may not end up winning.
What should have been our expectations for this season... a mid-table rivalry with the likes of Sunderland and Fulham? A relegation fight? What? Because this is genuinely baffling to me.
S
Squiggles
Guest
That we could compete with City, Spurs and whoever else for the fourth CL spot. I think Hodgson's believes the fans expectations do not fall in line with his own and the realities facing the club at the moment, hence the constantly depressing post-match interviews. It's understandable because the downturn in our fortunes has been so drastic, and Hodgson's trying to pick up the pieces, but so far he appears to be failing.
There was a small glimmer of hope that we could make the CL if we got Torres firing on all cylinders and injury free, and the rest of the side were rekindled under Hodgson, but it looks extremely unlikely to happen now. I think we'll finish between 5th and 7th next season, and the new owners will have to decide whether or not he's got the right plan for their money before making a decision on his future.
There was a small glimmer of hope that we could make the CL if we got Torres firing on all cylinders and injury free, and the rest of the side were rekindled under Hodgson, but it looks extremely unlikely to happen now. I think we'll finish between 5th and 7th next season, and the new owners will have to decide whether or not he's got the right plan for their money before making a decision on his future.
I wouldn't give much for Roy's chances now. New owners were always likely to want their own man in anyway unless Roy started with a real bang, which - even though it's not all his fault - he's manifestly not doing.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42100.msg1185864#msg1185864 date=1285958840]
That we could compete with City, Spurs and whoever else for the fourth CL spot. I think Hodgson's believes the fans expectations do not fall in line with his own and the realities facing the club at the moment, hence the constantly depressing post-match interviews. It's understandable because the downturn in our fortunes has been so drastic, and Hodgson's trying to pick up the pieces, but so far he appears to be failing.
There was a small glimmer of hope that we could make the CL if we got Torres firing on all cylinders and injury free, and the rest of the side were rekindled under Hodgson, but it looks extremely unlikely to happen now. I think we'll finish between 5th and 7th next season, and the new owners will have to decide whether or not he's got the right plan for their money before making a decision on his future.
[/quote]
That's the thing, I expected us to finish between 5th and 7th, but I'm getting worried we won't even do that. You should always be shooting for a level above, whereas Hodgson has taken pains to calm expectation and redefine victory more than the U.S. Military, and he hasn't even been around for long.
That we could compete with City, Spurs and whoever else for the fourth CL spot. I think Hodgson's believes the fans expectations do not fall in line with his own and the realities facing the club at the moment, hence the constantly depressing post-match interviews. It's understandable because the downturn in our fortunes has been so drastic, and Hodgson's trying to pick up the pieces, but so far he appears to be failing.
There was a small glimmer of hope that we could make the CL if we got Torres firing on all cylinders and injury free, and the rest of the side were rekindled under Hodgson, but it looks extremely unlikely to happen now. I think we'll finish between 5th and 7th next season, and the new owners will have to decide whether or not he's got the right plan for their money before making a decision on his future.
[/quote]
That's the thing, I expected us to finish between 5th and 7th, but I'm getting worried we won't even do that. You should always be shooting for a level above, whereas Hodgson has taken pains to calm expectation and redefine victory more than the U.S. Military, and he hasn't even been around for long.
Perhaps it's just me, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense on any level Squiggs.
My general impression of most fans expectations going into the season was that we were in for a tough fight for fourth. If we end up finishing between 5th and 7th it implies that we at least have the possibility of being involved in that fight. And even if not, no-one would hold it against Roy if he gave it a good go and finished 5th.
As far as I see it, our expectations are bang in line with reality.. or at least they were. The only possible reason for dampening our expectations even further is to mask the fact that we've been dreadful. And that is not on.
My general impression of most fans expectations going into the season was that we were in for a tough fight for fourth. If we end up finishing between 5th and 7th it implies that we at least have the possibility of being involved in that fight. And even if not, no-one would hold it against Roy if he gave it a good go and finished 5th.
As far as I see it, our expectations are bang in line with reality.. or at least they were. The only possible reason for dampening our expectations even further is to mask the fact that we've been dreadful. And that is not on.
S
Squiggles
Guest
Farky - Pretty much, and I'm beginning to share your concerns.
You should only try to manage expectations when you're winning, otherwise it's just perceived as loser talk. Danny Murphy said at HT yesterday that he wasn't a manager for shouting and raving. I was a bit disappointed when he said this, because I think a lot of players could do with a kick up the backside.
You should only try to manage expectations when you're winning, otherwise it's just perceived as loser talk. Danny Murphy said at HT yesterday that he wasn't a manager for shouting and raving. I was a bit disappointed when he said this, because I think a lot of players could do with a kick up the backside.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=42100.msg1185514#msg1185514 date=1285925418]
For the majority of our games this season i think Roy has picked decent teams that would enter the games as favourites. The problem is that bar maybe a couple of players our lot are playing way below their usual standards. You can blame Roy for the lack of motivation/tactics etc, but at the end of the day the players are the ones turning in shite individual performances time and again.
Most of them are playing like soft little girls who simply feel sorry for themselves.
[/quote]
This ^
Some of the blame lays with the manager's tactics but TBH there's not a great difference between last season and this either that respect or in application. Masher has gone and Poulson arrived, as far a generating attacking play is concerned there is very little difference in that regard - it's not as if half the team are holding back to support him is it.
It will also take time for Mierles, Cole, Konchesky, Jovanovic & Poulson to find their place in the team and gel with Gerrard / Torres. Especially after a short and dis-joointed pre-season.
However all that said, don't expect the team to be able to play well if they fail to put passes together. It has been noticeable in a few games but for me especially against Utrecht, we are not closing the opposition down fast enough, we are not moving the ball fast enough from back to front or midfield to wide and we are not stretching teams on the left at all in the absence of Konchesky, who has shown a willingness to get forward down the left touchline, or when Johnson fails to get forward (and then gets stick for being out of position) on the right.
At the moment we are ridiculously one-paced and narrow.
For the majority of our games this season i think Roy has picked decent teams that would enter the games as favourites. The problem is that bar maybe a couple of players our lot are playing way below their usual standards. You can blame Roy for the lack of motivation/tactics etc, but at the end of the day the players are the ones turning in shite individual performances time and again.
Most of them are playing like soft little girls who simply feel sorry for themselves.
[/quote]
This ^
Some of the blame lays with the manager's tactics but TBH there's not a great difference between last season and this either that respect or in application. Masher has gone and Poulson arrived, as far a generating attacking play is concerned there is very little difference in that regard - it's not as if half the team are holding back to support him is it.
It will also take time for Mierles, Cole, Konchesky, Jovanovic & Poulson to find their place in the team and gel with Gerrard / Torres. Especially after a short and dis-joointed pre-season.
However all that said, don't expect the team to be able to play well if they fail to put passes together. It has been noticeable in a few games but for me especially against Utrecht, we are not closing the opposition down fast enough, we are not moving the ball fast enough from back to front or midfield to wide and we are not stretching teams on the left at all in the absence of Konchesky, who has shown a willingness to get forward down the left touchline, or when Johnson fails to get forward (and then gets stick for being out of position) on the right.
At the moment we are ridiculously one-paced and narrow.
Hodgson alone is responsible for the fact that we are consistently lining up with a defensive formation and mentality. He's turning us into Fulham mark II, only with less suitable players for the system at his disposal.
He also persists in picking Lucas and Poulson (Roy's signing) together when no-one else would.
He also does NOTHING when the game is slipping away or his system is obviously not working/the midfield is overrun etc. Quite remarkably he seems even less proactive than Rafa in this sense.
He also communicates after most games the view that we should somehow be grateful for a hard-won point or narrow loss against most teams.
It seems likely that we're going to line-up tomorrow against Blackpool, at Anfield, with both Lucas and Poulson shielding the defence in a 3-5-2 formation. And he's going to drop Johnson, perhaps the Premiership's most likely natural wingback and play Kuyt there instead. Fucking brilliant.
I didn't want Hodgson without reservation, but once he was appointed started a thread urging people to give him a chance and some backing. The turgid football he's serving up on a regular basis (Fulham mk II) has already drained any desire I had to get behind him. I can't think of a single positive he's brought to the club in his short time here. Being an anyone-but-Rafa doesn't count.
He also persists in picking Lucas and Poulson (Roy's signing) together when no-one else would.
He also does NOTHING when the game is slipping away or his system is obviously not working/the midfield is overrun etc. Quite remarkably he seems even less proactive than Rafa in this sense.
He also communicates after most games the view that we should somehow be grateful for a hard-won point or narrow loss against most teams.
It seems likely that we're going to line-up tomorrow against Blackpool, at Anfield, with both Lucas and Poulson shielding the defence in a 3-5-2 formation. And he's going to drop Johnson, perhaps the Premiership's most likely natural wingback and play Kuyt there instead. Fucking brilliant.
I didn't want Hodgson without reservation, but once he was appointed started a thread urging people to give him a chance and some backing. The turgid football he's serving up on a regular basis (Fulham mk II) has already drained any desire I had to get behind him. I can't think of a single positive he's brought to the club in his short time here. Being an anyone-but-Rafa doesn't count.
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=42100.msg1186091#msg1186091 date=1286007090]
It seems likely that we're going to line-up tomorrow against Blackpool, at Anfield, with both Lucas and Poulson shielding the defence in a 3-5-2 formation.
[/quote]
I agree Lucas and Poulsen don't exactly set the pulse racing, but last season Rafa favoured Lucas and Mascherano. Which is basically the same tactics, except that Poulsen isn't as good as Mascherano. Which isn't Hodgson's fault.
It seems likely that we're going to line-up tomorrow against Blackpool, at Anfield, with both Lucas and Poulson shielding the defence in a 3-5-2 formation.
[/quote]
I agree Lucas and Poulsen don't exactly set the pulse racing, but last season Rafa favoured Lucas and Mascherano. Which is basically the same tactics, except that Poulsen isn't as good as Mascherano. Which isn't Hodgson's fault.
Playing Lucas and Masher effectively got Benitez the sack.
So playing the same useless cunt with the worst defensive midfielder in the world, as opposed to one of the best, isn't going to work is it?
Exactly *what* fucking game was the BFT watching in the week? The Cunt Twins were fucking *abysmal* so he decides to play them again?
Fucking hell, this useless old twat is making our club a laughing stock
So playing the same useless cunt with the worst defensive midfielder in the world, as opposed to one of the best, isn't going to work is it?
Exactly *what* fucking game was the BFT watching in the week? The Cunt Twins were fucking *abysmal* so he decides to play them again?
Fucking hell, this useless old twat is making our club a laughing stock
The only people in world football who are scared of out midfield are our defence.
I said I'd judge it at xmas, but I just can't see what progress we can possibly make playing those two utter fucking shithead wankjobs in the middle together.
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
I said I'd judge it at xmas, but I just can't see what progress we can possibly make playing those two utter fucking shithead wankjobs in the middle together.
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42100.msg1185875#msg1185875 date=1285959603]
Perhaps it's just me, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense on any level Squiggs.
My general impression of most fans expectations going into the season was that we were in for a tough fight for fourth. If we end up finishing between 5th and 7th it implies that we at least have the possibility of being involved in that fight. And even if not, no-one would hold it against Roy if he gave it a good go and finished 5th.
As far as I see it, our expectations are bang in line with reality.. or at least they were. The only possible reason for dampening our expectations even further is to mask the fact that we've been dreadful. And that is not on.
[/quote]
I think that's fair and nor unrealistic those were/are my expectations
regards
Perhaps it's just me, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense on any level Squiggs.
My general impression of most fans expectations going into the season was that we were in for a tough fight for fourth. If we end up finishing between 5th and 7th it implies that we at least have the possibility of being involved in that fight. And even if not, no-one would hold it against Roy if he gave it a good go and finished 5th.
As far as I see it, our expectations are bang in line with reality.. or at least they were. The only possible reason for dampening our expectations even further is to mask the fact that we've been dreadful. And that is not on.
[/quote]
I think that's fair and nor unrealistic those were/are my expectations
regards
[quote author=crump link=topic=42100.msg1186142#msg1186142 date=1286014081]
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
[/quote]
Haha.
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
[/quote]
Haha.
[quote author=crump link=topic=42100.msg1186142#msg1186142 date=1286014081]
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
[/quote]
I've thiefed this.
If every Premier League club had to stick to of their players in a tombola and you just randomly got two of them randomly redistributed, we would undoubtedly improve unless we were that unlucky the two cunts arrived back with us.
[/quote]
I've thiefed this.
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