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Rafa to Juve link denied

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[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=38644.msg1093997#msg1093997 date=1272369636]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38644.msg1093995#msg1093995 date=1272369468]
I can't be arsed reading this thread - is he going then or what ?
[/quote]

Well in summary, most people on here believe he is and want him to go. Some people think he won't and don't want him to go. But people are contesting that this is not a valid poll as 6CM is too militant.
[/quote]

succinct and to the point.
 
It has taken me a while but I am up to speed with this thread.
Neil, you are fighting a brave fight, I can see that and respect you for it.

But Oncy made some perfectly valid points about why Rafa has to go and you brought it all back to money spent (gross and net) everytime. When questioned about our failures to beat Pompy, Wolves, Fulham, etc this season you just shrugged it off as 'Rafa has made some mistakes on the pitch' and then got straight back to the money.

After 6 fucking years in the job do you not think top 4 is the absolute minimum requirement for this squad? Do you not think it is an absolute embarrassment that we will finish possibly as low as 7th? That we have scored as many goals away from home as Wigan & Wolves this season (18 goals each)? That we have one, yes ONE, away game in the league this year? That we have lost close to 20 games in one season? If this was a freak season I would write it off, but teh fact is after all this time he should have a squad of players here good enough to compete for the CL places and beyond. We don't and I beleive that has to be considered as a failure as Rafa's part. I also think we are as far away from winning the league now as we were when Houllier was here, and for that Rafa should go IMO.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=38644.msg1094025#msg1094025 date=1272371788]
It has taken me a while but I am up to speed with this thread.
Neil, you are fighting a brave fight, I can see that and respect you for it.

But Oncy made some perfectly valid points about why Rafa has to go and you brought it all back to money spent (gross and net) everytime. When questioned about our failures to beat Pompy, Wolves, Fulham, etc this season you just shrugged it off as 'Rafa has made some mistakes on the pitch' and then got straight back to the money.

After 6 fucking years in the job do you not think top 4 is the absolute minimum requirement for this squad? Do you not think it is an absolute embarrassment that we will finish possibly as low as 7th? That we have scored as many goals away from home as Wigan & Wolves this season (18 goals each)? That we have one, yes ONE, away game in the league this year? That we have lost close to 20 games in one season? If this was a freak season I would write it off, but teh fact is after all this time he should have a squad of players here good enough to compete for the CL places and beyond. We don't and I beleive that has to be considered as a failure as Rafa's part. I also think we are as far away from winning the league now as we were when Houllier was here, and for that Rafa should go IMO.
[/quote]

this is my thinking and I will be the first to agree its somewhat flawed

money>players>options>tactics>results

that's how I form my opinion of a manager. I can't move beyond the money and I'm 100% certain that given 'proper' funds rafa would do better. look at last season, we were quite lucky with injuries (thus overcoming our paper thin squad) and challenged for the league.

if rafa is sacked its not like I'm going to say the owners are wrong its just I want to see if this manager with obvious predigree can properly dominate if given a ton of money not offset by sales. people bring up jose but there is no doubt in my mind had rafa rather than jose been hired by the russian and given the same about of money with the depth they already possessed rafa would have won the league as well.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=38644.msg1094025#msg1094025 date=1272371788]

After 6 fucking years in the job do you not think top 4 is the absolute minimum requirement for this squad? Do you not think it is an absolute embarrassment that we will finish possibly as low as 7th? That we have scored as many goals away from home as Wigan & Wolves this season (18 goals each)? That we have one, yes ONE, away game in the league this year? That we have lost close to 20 games in one season? If this was a freak season I would write it off, but teh fact is after all this time he should have a squad of players here good enough to compete for the CL places and beyond. We don't and I beleive that has to be considered as a failure as Rafa's part. I also think we are as far away from winning the league now as we were when Houllier was here, and for that Rafa should go IMO.

[/quote]

Some alright points in here, too.

I suppose it boils down to this:

Was last season a "blip"?
Or is this season a "blip"?

If he gets it right this summer can he build on what happened last season and get closer to the title?
Or will he fuck up this summer as royally as he has fucked up the last two, and leave us just as far behind (if not worse)?

Because there is no denying that this season has been one of the worst for LFC for a decade.

Many of us saw it coming from the opening day. Some of us quacked on about "guaranteed fourth at least" and defended the indefensible for so long it became pitiful to witness, but now only a cunt would try and defend how shocking it's been.

Because that's what it has been: shocking.

So.

Blip? Or epitaph?
 
Regarding the replacement manager, I will be easily pleased.

It will be such a relief to have a manager who at least occasionally does the obvious right thing regarding the transfer market, team selection, tactics and substitutions. :🙂
 
Rafa4PM and spiderneil, are you saying you don't feel even slightly betrayed by the manager you idolise sneakily signing for another club while our season spirals down the toilet? It's people like you I feel sorry for. You chant his name every week, you defend him every day on this forum, and then he just fucks off to Italy in search of a bigger transfer kitty. And still he can do no wrong?!
 
Man City want Benitez to replace Mancini

Italian newspaper La Stampa is reporting that Manchester City owner Mansour Bin Zayed Al Nahyan is interested in Liverpool coach Rafael Benitez. By all accounts City are preparing to thwart efforts by Juventus to poach the Liverpool boss and will offer the Spaniard a huge transfer kitty and long term contract to leave Anfield for Eastlands.

Juventus have been viewed as front runners to tempt Benitez to leave Anfield but with City now apparently interested in Benitez it does shake things up somewhat, for starters it would mean that the likes of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard would become serious targets for City, they have the money to splash and Benitez would not be afraid to spend it.

It may well not be the end of the world for Juventus and Mancini though, they are thought to be interested in each other and if Juventus do not manage to attract Benitez then the chances are it would be Mancini they would turn to.

For Liverpool fans this is not welcome news, it is one thing losing Benitez to Juventus but a whole new ball game if they lose him to Man City, with the money City have it will make Liverpool fans very nervous about the club being able to hang on to its best players.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094035#msg1094035 date=1272372384]
this is my thinking and I will be the first to agree its somewhat flawed

money>players>options>tactics>results
[/quote]

Ok, fine. I can see where you are coming from with that one.
But Rafa was nowhere near the top spender in La Liga, was he? He still won there without massive funds.
I think Rafa inherited a great squad at Valencia and coached them to within an inch of their lives. They became a fucking machine under him and were successful. Sure, Valencia had a great squad and they did spend money to assemble it but it wasn't Rafa who eyeballed these players, Héctor Cúper did.

It is proven that he doesn't have a track record of building a squad himself so why give him another 60/70/80 million when he has shown himself to be a 'bit' dodgy in the last three windows? If you can't plan for the future with a particular manager or are afraid to give him megabucks, why keep him?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094035#msg1094035 date=1272372384]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=38644.msg1094025#msg1094025 date=1272371788]
It has taken me a while but I am up to speed with this thread.
Neil, you are fighting a brave fight, I can see that and respect you for it.

But Oncy made some perfectly valid points about why Rafa has to go and you brought it all back to money spent (gross and net) everytime. When questioned about our failures to beat Pompy, Wolves, Fulham, etc this season you just shrugged it off as 'Rafa has made some mistakes on the pitch' and then got straight back to the money.

After 6 fucking years in the job do you not think top 4 is the absolute minimum requirement for this squad? Do you not think it is an absolute embarrassment that we will finish possibly as low as 7th? That we have scored as many goals away from home as Wigan & Wolves this season (18 goals each)? That we have one, yes ONE, away game in the league this year? That we have lost close to 20 games in one season? If this was a freak season I would write it off, but teh fact is after all this time he should have a squad of players here good enough to compete for the CL places and beyond. We don't and I beleive that has to be considered as a failure as Rafa's part. I also think we are as far away from winning the league now as we were when Houllier was here, and for that Rafa should go IMO.
[/quote]

this is my thinking and I will be the first to agree its somewhat flawed

money>players>options>tactics>results

that's how I form my opinion of a manager. I can't move beyond the money and I'm 100% certain that given 'proper' funds rafa would do better. look at last season, we were quite lucky with injuries (thus overcoming our paper thin squad) and challenged for the league.

if rafa is sacked its not like I'm going to say the owners are wrong its just I want to see if this manager with obvious predigree can properly dominate if given a ton of money not offset by sales. people bring up jose but there is no doubt in my mind had rafa rather than jose been hired by the russian and given the same about of money with the depth they already possessed rafa would have won the league as well.
[/quote]So you think he's a great manager but will only ever prove it when he's given a shitload of cash?
So basically you think he's a brilliant scout?
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=38644.msg1094041#msg1094041 date=1272372814]


Man City want Benitez to replace Mancini

Italian newspaper La Stampa is reporting that Manchester City owner Mansour Bin Zayed Al Nahyan is interested in Liverpool coach Rafael Benitez. By all accounts City are preparing to thwart efforts by Juventus to poach the Liverpool boss and will offer the Spaniard a huge transfer kitty and long term contract to leave Anfield for Eastlands.

Juventus have been viewed as front runners to tempt Benitez to leave Anfield but with City now apparently interested in Benitez it does shake things up somewhat, for starters it would mean that the likes of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard would become serious targets for City, they have the money to splash and Benitez would not be afraid to spend it.

It may well not be the end of the world for Juventus and Mancini though, they are thought to be interested in each other and if Juventus do not manage to attract Benitez then the chances are it would be Mancini they would turn to.

For Liverpool fans this is not welcome news, it is one thing losing Benitez to Juventus but a whole new ball game if they lose him to Man City, with the money City have it will make Liverpool fans very nervous about the club being able to hang on to its best players.
[/quote]

= they want Torres very, very badly
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38644.msg1094045#msg1094045 date=1272373090]
Benitez to City would be awesome.
[/quote]

No it wouldn't.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=38644.msg1094043#msg1094043 date=1272372947]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094035#msg1094035 date=1272372384]
this is my thinking and I will be the first to agree its somewhat flawed

money>players>options>tactics>results
[/quote]

Ok, fine. I can see where you are coming from with that one.
But Rafa was nowhere near the top spender in La Liga, was he? He still won there without massive funds.
I think Rafa inherited a great squad at Valencia and coached them to within an inch of their lives. They became a fucking machine under him and were successful. Sure, Valencia had a great squad and they did spend money to assemble it but it wasn't Rafa who eyeballed these players, Héctor Cúper did.

It is proven that he doesn't have a track record of building a squad himself so why give him another 60/70/80 million when he has shown himself to be a 'bit' dodgy in the last three windows? If you can't plan for the future with a particular manager or are afraid to give him megabucks, why keep him?
[/quote]

without belittling what rafa did, real were in decline and barca were rebuilding. if rafa were to go to valencia now he would have a much harder time winning the league.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094037#msg1094037 date=1272372456]
Some alright points in here, too.

I suppose it boils down to this:

Was last season a "blip"?
Or is this season a "blip"?

If he gets it right this summer can he build on what happened last season and get closer to the title?
Or will he fuck up this summer as royally as he has fucked up the last two, and leave us just as far behind (if not worse)?

Because there is no denying that this season has been one of the worst for LFC for a decade.

Many of us saw it coming from the opening day. Some of us quacked on about "guaranteed fourth at least" and defended the indefensible for so long it became pitiful to witness, but now only a cunt would try and defend how shocking it's been.

Because that's what it has been: shocking.

So.

Blip? Or epitaph?
[/quote]

The one season we kind-of challenged for the league has to be considered the blip.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=38644.msg1094047#msg1094047 date=1272373142]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38644.msg1094045#msg1094045 date=1272373090]
Benitez to City would be awesome.
[/quote]

No it wouldn't.
[/quote]

Yes it would.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38644.msg1094050#msg1094050 date=1272373440]
without belittling what rafa did, real were in decline and barca were rebuilding. if rafa were to go to valencia now he would have a much harder time winning the league.
[/quote]

No, they weren't Neil. Real were not in decline.
Real Madrid's playing squad in 2002/3

SQUAD
Goalkeepers: Casillas, César & Carlos Sánchez
Defenders: Salgado, Raúl Bravo, Roberto Carlos, Hierro, Helguera, Pavón & Miñambres
Midfielders: Cambiasso, Celades, Conceiçao, Zidane, Figo, Solari, Makelele, McManaman & Guti
Forwards: Portillo, Ronaldo, Morientes, Raúl & Tote
Coach: Vicente del Borque

That team won the CL and the Spanish league. Look, I don't want this conversation/thread to be railroaded into talking about Spanish football. The facts prove that over his career he hasn't won a trophy with a team he put together himself. That is a pretty big flaw is it not?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094040#msg1094040 date=1272372807]
Rafa4PM and spiderneil, are you saying you don't feel even slightly betrayed by the manager you idolise sneakily signing for another club while our season spirals down the toilet? It's people like you I feel sorry for. You chant his name every week, you defend him every day on this forum, and then he just fucks off to Italy in search of a bigger transfer kitty. And still he can do no wrong?!

[/quote]

Has he actually signed for Juve then, or is this just newspaper speculation at present?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38644.msg1094040#msg1094040 date=1272372807]
Rafa4PM and spiderneil, are you saying you don't feel even slightly betrayed by the manager you idolise sneakily signing for another club while our season spirals down the toilet? It's people like you I feel sorry for. You chant his name every week, you defend him every day on this forum, and then he just fucks off to Italy in search of a bigger transfer kitty. And still he can do no wrong?!

[/quote]

I bet many will still side with him. He can do no wrong is the eyes of some. They will respect his wishes for wanting to leave and claim that they don't blame him after all the shit he had to put up, the owners the media etc.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38644.msg1094096#msg1094096 date=1272378060]
Has he actually signed for Juve then, or is this just newspaper speculation at present?
[/quote]

According to BBC Radio news, Rafa's agent has announced that all this talk about negotiations with Juventus is a complete fabrication.

I think that's unlikely - a rumour of this strength coming from different sources must have some basis in fact.
 
I'm inclined to agree, Portly. Benitez himself should come out and dismiss them if these rumours are complete nonsense.
 
He's said he hasn't had discussions with Juve. What he hasn't said is that there haven't been any such discussions concerning him. It would be interesting to know the exact wording of his agent's latest denial.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38644.msg1094162#msg1094162 date=1272383737]
I'm inclined to agree, Portly. Benitez himself should come out and dismiss them if these rumours are complete nonsense.
[/quote]

Unless he is trying to hedge his bets.
Perhaps his preference is to stay at Anfield but not under the current owners?

If he was sure of a takeover and a big transfer kitty in the summer I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear the beeb, beeb beeb and see the reverse lights come on as Rafa backs out of going to Juve.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38644.msg1094168#msg1094168 date=1272384124]
He's said he hasn't had discussions with Juve. What he hasn't said is that there haven't been any such discussions concerning him. It would be interesting to know the exact wording of his agent's latest denial.
[/quote]

However Quillon has dismissed the claims as "absolutely false" and insisted: "There is no agreement with anyone."
 
Rafael Benitez's agent denies deal done with Juventus
By Dan Roan



Rafael Benitez's agent has told BBC Sport reports the Liverpool boss has agreed a deal to take over Serie giants Juventus are "absolutely false".

According to reports in Italy, the Turin side are poised to secure the Spaniard on a four-year contract.

But Manuel Quillon Garcia denied that was the case, insisting: "There is no agreement with anyone."

He also denied meeting Juve director Roberto Bettega in Monte Carlo this week to discuss Benitez's future.

BBC Sport understands Benitez is one of several possible candidates Juventus want to succeed Alberto Zaccheroni at the Stadio Olimpico this summer.

However, Benitez's pay demands, and the fact he would want to bring several of his backroom staff with him, could cause difficulties.


There has been no contact between Liverpool and Juventus, with the Reds privately sceptical the Italian club could afford to buy the manager out of his lucrative contract, which still has four years to run.

Juventus have refused to comment on speculation their president Jean-Claude Blanc will fly to Liverpool this week in an attempt to lure Benitez away from Anfield after six years in charge.

Benitez is preparing Liverpool for the second leg of their Europa League semi-final against Atletico Madrid at Anfield on Thursday.

He wants to stay at Anfield but is yet to meet the club's new chairman, Martin Broughton.

Talks are planned for this week, when Benitez's future and the club's summer transfer plans will be discussed.

How those discussions go will depend on whether Liverpool have clinched another season in Champions League football.

They currently lie seventh in the Premier League, two points adrift of Tottenham in fourth but having played a game more.

The Reds entertain Chelsea on Sunday before finishing their league campaign with an away match at Hull on 9 May.

Juve, who appointed Zaccheroni as head coach in January after sacking Ciro Ferrara, are sixth in Serie A, six points off a Champions League spot with three games remaining.

They kept alive their faint hopes of qualifying for Europe's top club competition by beating Bari 2-0 at the weekend.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8646542.stm
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=38644.msg1094169#msg1094169 date=1272384138]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38644.msg1094162#msg1094162 date=1272383737]
I'm inclined to agree, Portly. Benitez himself should come out and dismiss them if these rumours are complete nonsense.
[/quote]

Unless he is trying to hedge his bets.

[/quote]

I think thats probably the case mate.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=38644.msg1094153#msg1094153 date=1272383069]

I think that's unlikely - a rumour of this strength coming from different sources must have some basis in fact.
[/quote]

*cough* gerrard cradle snatcher *cough*
 
Interestingly one report I was sent from Italy referred to Rafa's legal team, rather than Rafa himself or his agent, meeting Juve officials. Nothing either of them has said would be inconsistent with that happening.
 
Rafa, Torres, Lucas, Skrtel, Aurelio, Insua, Pacheco, Aqualani, N'Gog and Babel will all be gone in the summer.

Remember where you heard it first.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=38644.msg1094180#msg1094180 date=1272385124]
Rafa, Torres, Lucas, Skrtel, Aurelio, Insua, Pacheco, Aqualani, N'Gog and Babel will all be gone in the summer.

Remember where you heard it first.
[/quote]

OK except for that one!
 
Maybe it is Rafa playing his card close to his chest in order to get the best deal out of whichever club he will end up with, leaving or staying.
 
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