Didn't Alan Shearer get let off with a stamp on someone's head cos he was England captain?
That's how I remember it anyway, it may not be true.
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That's how I remember it anyway, it may not be true.
Thierry Henry on Alberto Moreno:
'He has been unbelievable. He has changed everything. He is like Roberto Carlos'
Having the lead for so long and conceding in the 84th minute is always gonna be a right kick in the balls just as I felt United were running out of ideas a bit as well...but I think most of us would've taken a point beforehand. The cunts had been on a great winning run in fairness, and we went into the game on a slight downer after recent results/performances, and not having 4 guaranteed starters in the 11.
We battled and scrapped for everything... excuse the cliché but it was a real team effort. Mignolet was a hero between the sticks...he has some balls that guy I'll give him that...if De Gea makes them saves it's headline news and constant repeats on Sky Sports. He was brilliant. Lovren who still worries me at times if I'm being honest was flawless at the back, when he plays like think he's about as good as any centre half in this League. Won everything in the air, won his tackles, organised all around him. Young lad at right back had a few nervy moments early on but to be expected away at United and up against someone like Martial...kept his cool thereafter and was excellent 2nd half. Looks a great prospect.
Henderson coming back in was a huge plus and I thought he was the best midfielder on the pitch. Can and Firmino much improved.
Overall really pleased with us...we gave it everything and deservedly got a result. Onwards we go.
We battled and scrapped for everything... excuse the cliché but it was a real team effort. Mignolet was a hero between the sticks...he has some balls that guy I'll give him that...if De Gea makes them saves it's headline news and constant repeats on Sky Sports. He was brilliant. Lovren who still worries me at times if I'm being honest was flawless at the back, when he plays like think he's about as good as any centre half in this League. Won everything in the air, won his tackles, organised all around him. Young lad at right back had a few nervy moments early on but to be expected away at United and up against someone like Martial...kept his cool thereafter and was excellent 2nd half. Looks a great prospect.
Henderson coming back in was a huge plus and I thought he was the best midfielder on the pitch. Can and Firmino much improved.
Overall really pleased with us...we gave it everything and deservedly got a result. Onwards we go.
Also nice to see us rattle the cage of that showboating dabbing twat. Didnt give him a kick all game. Resorted to trying a little MMA move on Hendo in his own box which he obviously got away with. Counted at least 3 or 4 clear fouls he made in that first half...thought he lost his head completely and was lucky to stay on. Surprised he had a penalty awarded against him come to think of it.
I think Henry would know how to appreciate aspects of a striker's job, good and bad, which is exactly what he did there.
We didn't create much, but the way we moved our feet and closed down space and forcing them to hoof it instead of introducing Rashford was impressing.
Uniteds Main take was an offside goal, plenty long balls, two yellow stripes inn Pogbas hair and Herrera hanging in Firminos shirt to stop us.
Uniteds Main take was an offside goal, plenty long balls, two yellow stripes inn Pogbas hair and Herrera hanging in Firminos shirt to stop us.
This was a very interesting duel of form vs tactics – United's players have been in much better form lately; after some early struggles every player (rather annoyingly) found more or less his optimal place in Mourinho's system and they were full of confidence. In contrast, we were without 3 of our key players (Mane, Matip and Coutinho only fit for the bench) and those who deputized for them in recent weeks have been overworked (more on that in the next post). If player form was the only factor, United should have won this game comfortably. Fortunately though, we are managed by Jurgen Klopp. In the pre-match presser he said "give me 11 fit players and we'll be competitive" – that statement would seem almost arrogant if it didn't come from Klopp, who proves it correct every day and did it again on Sunday.
Klopp is not one of the managers who changes his tactics and team shape in every game to suit the opponent (as Rafa was sometimes accused of doing) or just to experiment with tactical ideas (as Guardiola has been doing, particularly after leaving Barcelona). But for this game, he realized that he needed to disrupt United's newfound playing style, so he spent whatever preparation time he had since the Saints game making the switch to the to 4-4-2 "diamond" system. I posted one tactical analysis article in the "Klopp appreciation thread," here's another one. The reason this switch worked so well was, in my opinion, more psychological rather than tactical – United were shaken out of their rhythm and pattern of play and while in episodes they still showed some of signs of swagger and sharp thinking, it also showed that the confidence they acquired during their 15-game unbeaten streak didn't go all that deep. It really made a great statement about this team and manager that we could go to Old Trafford with all odds seemingly lined up against us (even the stupid Cameroon-Matip issue and the last-minute Clyne injury) and show United players that we are not afraid of them in the slightest, to make the likes of Pogba nervous and make Mourinho change the system at half-time. If Matip was available off the bench to counter the aerial threat of Fellaini, I think we would have enjoyed a deserved and a very sweet victory.
Klopp is not one of the managers who changes his tactics and team shape in every game to suit the opponent (as Rafa was sometimes accused of doing) or just to experiment with tactical ideas (as Guardiola has been doing, particularly after leaving Barcelona). But for this game, he realized that he needed to disrupt United's newfound playing style, so he spent whatever preparation time he had since the Saints game making the switch to the to 4-4-2 "diamond" system. I posted one tactical analysis article in the "Klopp appreciation thread," here's another one. The reason this switch worked so well was, in my opinion, more psychological rather than tactical – United were shaken out of their rhythm and pattern of play and while in episodes they still showed some of signs of swagger and sharp thinking, it also showed that the confidence they acquired during their 15-game unbeaten streak didn't go all that deep. It really made a great statement about this team and manager that we could go to Old Trafford with all odds seemingly lined up against us (even the stupid Cameroon-Matip issue and the last-minute Clyne injury) and show United players that we are not afraid of them in the slightest, to make the likes of Pogba nervous and make Mourinho change the system at half-time. If Matip was available off the bench to counter the aerial threat of Fellaini, I think we would have enjoyed a deserved and a very sweet victory.
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He gave Neil Lennon a round house kick to the face.
A couple of thoughts about the players. I thought Emre Can once again showed that he's an emotional player – he was at the lowest point confidence-wise probably in all of his Liverpool career, but the energy of the hostile crowd and the occasion lit a fire in him and while in the first half he was still second-guessing himself at times and making a few diabolical decisions, in the 2nd half it was already Emre Can at his best and I thought at that point he was our best player on the pitch. Let's hope this can be the turning point in his season. Klopp needs to find a way to wind him up like this before every game, maybe hide his hair gel slap him hard on the cheek in front of everyone, call him a dirty Turkish pig or something – when Can is angry, he can be an awesome player.
And can I wade into the Firmino debate a little bit? Here's what I wrote about him shortly after this signing was announced:
I even said that his style is closer to Suarez than Lallana (back when Lallana was the definition of a "soft, floaty" player). In his first season, I, like many of us, was frustrated by Firmino's inconsistency – I can't remember which poster said that you always know in the first 5 minutes of a game if we are going to see the "good Firmino" or the "bad Firmino" and if it's the latter you might as well sub him after 5 minutes, because he will not be of much use for the next 85. After his first pre-season working with Klopp, he has took a big step forward in his overall play and consistency and became a key man in this team. However, I get the frustration with his finishing – he really should and can do better at times. We can all see that he has the technique and if you watch some of his goals for Hoffenheim, you would think there is absolutely no reason he can't be a 15-20 league goal scorer for a few seasons at the peak of his career (so far his personal best was 16 league goals in 2013-14, 22 in all competitions).
So why is he not close to these numbers right now (currently on pace for 11 league goals, which would better his last-season total by 1, while playing in a much more free-scoring team)? One possible explanation is that he is spending so much energy pressing and also in training (Klopp said several times that Firmino is "the best in training") that when he finally gets the chance to finish, he doesn't have the freshness of body and mind to produce a clinical strike. Maybe if we had another player who could play at Firmino's level and seriously compete with him for minutes (say, if Sturridge was closer to his best), he could preserve his energy better and become more efficient? Whatever it is, I see no technical or physical shortcoming that should prevent him from scoring consistently in the Premier League: he may not be the fastest, but isn't any slower than a number of great past and present EPL strikers, he relishes the physical side of the game, is great at reading other player's body language and predicting their movements (an important quality for fooling goalkeepers), his clever movement ensures he consistently finds himself in good goal-scoring positions and he can certainly place the ball and strike it with power when needed. Right now his problem is lack of clarity in his decision-making in the final moment, like not going for the far post and instead shooting straight at De Gea on Sunday or inexplicably shooting with the wrong foot when going 1 on 1 with the GK in the home game against United (if I remember correctly).
I bet that at some point Firmino and the coaching staff will figure it out and he will become an even more valuable player than he's already. The best season of his career so far has been 2013-14 – given Klopp's record of improving players and Firmino's perfect fit to his style of football, there is no way it's going to remain so.
And can I wade into the Firmino debate a little bit? Here's what I wrote about him shortly after this signing was announced:
I even said that his style is closer to Suarez than Lallana (back when Lallana was the definition of a "soft, floaty" player). In his first season, I, like many of us, was frustrated by Firmino's inconsistency – I can't remember which poster said that you always know in the first 5 minutes of a game if we are going to see the "good Firmino" or the "bad Firmino" and if it's the latter you might as well sub him after 5 minutes, because he will not be of much use for the next 85. After his first pre-season working with Klopp, he has took a big step forward in his overall play and consistency and became a key man in this team. However, I get the frustration with his finishing – he really should and can do better at times. We can all see that he has the technique and if you watch some of his goals for Hoffenheim, you would think there is absolutely no reason he can't be a 15-20 league goal scorer for a few seasons at the peak of his career (so far his personal best was 16 league goals in 2013-14, 22 in all competitions).
So why is he not close to these numbers right now (currently on pace for 11 league goals, which would better his last-season total by 1, while playing in a much more free-scoring team)? One possible explanation is that he is spending so much energy pressing and also in training (Klopp said several times that Firmino is "the best in training") that when he finally gets the chance to finish, he doesn't have the freshness of body and mind to produce a clinical strike. Maybe if we had another player who could play at Firmino's level and seriously compete with him for minutes (say, if Sturridge was closer to his best), he could preserve his energy better and become more efficient? Whatever it is, I see no technical or physical shortcoming that should prevent him from scoring consistently in the Premier League: he may not be the fastest, but isn't any slower than a number of great past and present EPL strikers, he relishes the physical side of the game, is great at reading other player's body language and predicting their movements (an important quality for fooling goalkeepers), his clever movement ensures he consistently finds himself in good goal-scoring positions and he can certainly place the ball and strike it with power when needed. Right now his problem is lack of clarity in his decision-making in the final moment, like not going for the far post and instead shooting straight at De Gea on Sunday or inexplicably shooting with the wrong foot when going 1 on 1 with the GK in the home game against United (if I remember correctly).
I bet that at some point Firmino and the coaching staff will figure it out and he will become an even more valuable player than he's already. The best season of his career so far has been 2013-14 – given Klopp's record of improving players and Firmino's perfect fit to his style of football, there is no way it's going to remain so.
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In fairness who gives a flying fuck what Henry thinks.
Pele thought Nicky Butt was one of the best in the world.
So you forget when they got clear through twice in the first half ya?
once ... the second time was Pogba picking Can - which was a clear foul, but the ref let it go (as did you obviously).
That was in our box, wasn't it? From their corner. The ref missed it and then awarded United a free kick on the edge of our box for another incident. The whole point being that he handed United a goal scoring oppertunity that they never would have had if the rules of the game were being adhered to.
Unless I'm thinking of a completely different incident.
They?
The first was the backpass from Lovren?
yah i think.
Sound logic there.
In fairness, he sat and saw the whole game and had the benefit of video replays etc. In fairness he was a superb prem striker who understands the game from a forward players perspective. I think I'm gonna listen to what he says in this case.
And Mignolet had his only brainfart of the game when we were nearly 4 minutes into added time. That short throw could have been fatal but thankfully we managed to deal with it.
I forgot about that. I was having a go at him, despite him having a great game, there are times when he doesn't release it quick enough like that, and then there was doing it when we were under pressure, which was stupid.
In fairness that was probably his only mistake in the entire game.
Firmino was good against United, him and Origi do their job in those games because they fight for everything and close the play from the front - it's a crucial part of our system, but we're sacrificing a bit of a cutting edge sometimes as a result. It's right to want more goals from them, it's a valid criticism.
Of course it is. He's a seriously good player and key to our way of play and system, but should we want more goals from him? Yes. He ain't perfect, but he's waaaay better than some make out here.
But if the team is scoring enough why would we focus on one player (Firmino) when clearly we don't set up with a no.9 as a focal point?
And I wasn't focusing on one player, that's why I said "them", the team is scoring goals (or was), but individually you see the flaws exposed when we lose a player or two, as I've said. Individually we don't score enough for us to say we can see where goals are likely to come from.
The top 5 in the league, excluding us, have 6 players in the Premiership goalscorers top ten between them. We have one, Mane, who is in tenth place with 9 goals. Ali and Kane have 23 goals between them. Our next highest goalscorer is Lallana in 15th place with 7 goals, and then Milner in 21st place with 6 penalties.
Our main striker this season has been Firmino, he's in 25th place with 6 goals, just ahead of Joe Allen.
It's an issue, if not in the short term then moving forward. I don't know why people find it so offensive to say we can improve. It's so defeatest and a case of staying in our comfort zone of where we are right now. The system is great, we need to add a couple more quality elements to it.
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What does it matter if we don't have individuals on the top goal scorers chart if we are scoring enough as a team? I honestly don't get the focus on individuals, whoever they are. Who cares where the goals are coming from? I couldn't give a shit if, at the end of the season, our right back was our top goal scorer with 11, if we are scoring enough in total to make us competitive. That's not to say it wouldn't be great to score more, obviously. But is it as simple as just adding to the mix a no.9 who can score 20 in a season? I'm not entirely certain.
And I am not sure anyone is offended by your view - at least I'm not - I am just countering it with a different view.
I really like Firmino and I really like Sturridge (when he's not sulking) and I think Origi has potential but the main worry is that none of them seems to be a reliant top goalscorer (for three varying reasons really).
So we really should either 1) buy someone who is going to score that amount on a regular basis, and that is going to cost us a marvelous sum of money or 2) buy someone with even greater goal-scoring potential than what we got and then accept that it'll take some time to finally reach the peak. Far less money upfront but also we have got to wait a bit longer and face a bit more uncertainty.
We really should not accept anything in between those two options imo. No 'Defoe's' or potential outcast Barca-reserves or half-arsed Italians on a scoring streak. We need proper world class attacking talent or a world class striker.
Prontissimo.
So we really should either 1) buy someone who is going to score that amount on a regular basis, and that is going to cost us a marvelous sum of money or 2) buy someone with even greater goal-scoring potential than what we got and then accept that it'll take some time to finally reach the peak. Far less money upfront but also we have got to wait a bit longer and face a bit more uncertainty.
We really should not accept anything in between those two options imo. No 'Defoe's' or potential outcast Barca-reserves or half-arsed Italians on a scoring streak. We need proper world class attacking talent or a world class striker.
Prontissimo.
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