There were a few doubting comments from the usual suspects as far as I recall.
Post match thoughts.
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And rightly so, we were fucking terrible.
I don't think anyone said they want him out though, that's exaggerating point. People need to get over the whole infallible hype that surrounds him. Everyone loves him, but it's ok to call a spade a spade and criticise his poor decisions without being made to feel like you've just committed blasphemy.
Some are looking for the smallest thing to have a pop though. Thats not okay.
He deserved a lot of critisicm after the Burnley game, and rightly so.
The players aswell deserved that.
If we can just remove the individual mistakes from this team. Thats so infuriating.
He deserved a lot of critisicm after the Burnley game, and rightly so.
The players aswell deserved that.
If we can just remove the individual mistakes from this team. Thats so infuriating.
Who are? I don't see anyone queuing up to have a go. If we fuck up it's on him, it's his team, if we succeed it's on him, it's the same for every manager. Some of his in-game decisions have been slow and poor, some of his halftime team talks and tactical switches have been excellent. His buys look good overall, his decisiveness with our players and deciding who cuts it, also looks good.
It seems like because he's got a history elsewhere and because he did such a great job with Dortmund, that he's untouchable. All managers fuck up, look at Mourinho. It's ok to criticise people if it's warranted. There are alot worse examples of witch-hunting on here when it comes to our players. cf half the shite that's been written on here about Henderson and Lallana.
Was anybody actually saying 'Klopp out' ? There are question marks over whether he can breakdown teams that sit back in numbers, whether or not hes flexible enough tactically, if he knows what his best team is and why he hasnt addressed the left back issue. This is a great win, but it doesnt answer any of those questions.
He missed at Burnley, took it on his shoulders and worked on how we can correct it. United got it badly wrong yesterday with Mourinhos approach to the game and he pointed fingers at individuals that let the manager down.
We are fucking lucky to have Klopp. Every team will get it wrong every now nd then and we should know that our manager will use the poor days to make us stronger while others will rip apart the Group....
It's time to let Brendan go.
Knee jerk and in jest no doubt but there certainly were over the top criticism of him.
I don't think people are looking to bring Klopp down - almost everybody here genuinely likes him and knows we are lucky to have a manager of this caliber here, considering our recent lack of success. But people usually criticize what they don't understand and it's true that Klopp's understanding of football and players' roles is a bit unique - and certainly different from most British managers. For instance it's quite normal for him to ask a hard-working, reliable midfielder to fill in at full-back or CB - he's done this his whole career. But here people see Milner and Lucas in the back 4 together and assume it's going to be a disaster.
I personally didn't understand Klopp's decision to play Henderson at DM and thought this was a strange mistake - but after some initial bumps Hendo proved he can handle it, thereby proving Klopp right as well. Now I think the experience of playing in this position might make Hendo a better player overall - hopefully he will have gained a better understanding of the defensive side of the game. Anyway, to summarize my point, I think we all need to learn to understand Klopp's logic as a manager better - then there will be less confusion and criticism.
I personally didn't understand Klopp's decision to play Henderson at DM and thought this was a strange mistake - but after some initial bumps Hendo proved he can handle it, thereby proving Klopp right as well. Now I think the experience of playing in this position might make Hendo a better player overall - hopefully he will have gained a better understanding of the defensive side of the game. Anyway, to summarize my point, I think we all need to learn to understand Klopp's logic as a manager better - then there will be less confusion and criticism.
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Can't wait for the next forum meltdown.
Hopefully it's not against Chelsea cos I really want us to beat them at their own home.
Hopefully it's not against Chelsea cos I really want us to beat them at their own home.
It's nothing to do with Brendan. I back Klopp constantly, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. You always jump to his defense when any one remotely questions him, no one I know on here dislikes Klopp, but it's ok to question him every now and then when he makes a poor decision, without having to put up with this bollocks.
I could say the same about Dalglish when it comes to you, you were pretty bitter about that for a while. Pot and kettle stuff there Macca.
I love a good meltdown.
Dalglish is a club legend, Rodgers is, well...some guy.
You're the last person I need a lecture from about respecting club legends. Carragher, Gerrard anyone?
Especially given you constantly criticised Dalglish when he was in charge.
So because he's a club legend means he should be given more leeway than someone who isn't? In terms of judging their work as Manager's.
I think so.
What I'm saying is, that it's understandable. I gave Dalglish flack too. So I'm no different.
Yes..but the same applies to the haters who are desperate to see him fail at Celtic and who still blame him for everything and credit him with nothing a Liverpool.
Very good post. Same with the decision to play Milner at left back. Obviously early days but he was up against Mahrez last night and was very good. Assist for the first goal, recorded 4/4 clearances, got the most touches (90) and won most defensive aerial duels (4).
Maybe it can work after all.
Oh, there's a big difference (aside from the fact I DON'T 'jump to Klopp's defence' when anyone remotely questions him'. That's just a lazy and self-serving exaggeration. I could say lie but I'm polite.). The difference is: I'm not STILL droning on about it, mate. There's ALWAYS this subtext to your interventions. Let it go. Or just be consistent and be as madly blinkered about Klopp as you were about Rodgers.
I don't think anyone on here was questioning if he should be our manager - it would be beyond stupid but what was quite telling regards the Burnley game was that:-
1) it was a reminder of our inconsistency last season and 90 minutes of watching our performances against Watford, West Ham etc.. last season - a painful reminder.
2) the fact that nothing was being done on the LB situation boiling up on us all and that we sold/loaned out any cover for that position which did not make sense to us.
Regarding point (1) we were collectively worried about the overall improvement - but after the post match interview with Klopp we should have felt comfortable to know that he gets what we all saw in that game which was culmination of just bad decisions by players all over the team.
Also I have noticed on this forum that people are not getting why we but Wjynaldum - I think yesterday highlighted something relevant which was that his physical presence makes a difference - for all of Allen's skill and movement he was just as easily shrugged off the ball - we now have someone in the middle who is admittedly playing within himself but has some strength to hold off opposition bullies in midfield. We could easily have been run-over if we played Henderson, Allen, and Lalana in yesterday's game but this guy adds some presence in midfield and a number of times he did quite well with few options to pass to. Still the 30M has to be justified a bit more.
1) it was a reminder of our inconsistency last season and 90 minutes of watching our performances against Watford, West Ham etc.. last season - a painful reminder.
2) the fact that nothing was being done on the LB situation boiling up on us all and that we sold/loaned out any cover for that position which did not make sense to us.
Regarding point (1) we were collectively worried about the overall improvement - but after the post match interview with Klopp we should have felt comfortable to know that he gets what we all saw in that game which was culmination of just bad decisions by players all over the team.
Also I have noticed on this forum that people are not getting why we but Wjynaldum - I think yesterday highlighted something relevant which was that his physical presence makes a difference - for all of Allen's skill and movement he was just as easily shrugged off the ball - we now have someone in the middle who is admittedly playing within himself but has some strength to hold off opposition bullies in midfield. We could easily have been run-over if we played Henderson, Allen, and Lalana in yesterday's game but this guy adds some presence in midfield and a number of times he did quite well with few options to pass to. Still the 30M has to be justified a bit more.
Match stats
- Liverpool have won more games against reigning Premier League champions than any other side has (20).
- This is the 14th time that a reigning Premier League champion has conceded four or more goals in a single match.
- Liverpool have scored more Premier League goals in 2016 than any other team (50).
- Mane has scored eight goals in his past eight Premier League appearances.
- Vardy has found the net three times in his past two Premier League games against Liverpool. He has scored seven in his past eight league games.
- Since the start of last season, Firmino has netted more Premier League goals than any other Liverpool player (12).
King Kenny is part of our DNA. He should be given more leeway than others on any issues, had it not been that he doesnt need any leeway.
Watched the game and also highlights and it is far more enjoyable in the truncated format, which removes much of the anxiety and areas of concern.
But they are there. Overall, a hugely impressive display and a very well-deserved victory. But those niggles, the fears, the concerns are never far from the surface. We never really look a team capable of staying in control of a match. Of dictating the pace and tempo. For all the blood and thunder spectacle of much of the attacking play, the waters never appear calm. Rather we rock and roll about the pitch like a drunk sailor, and other teams - more organised and calm teams - will exploit that.
For all that we look very capable of slugging it out toe to toe with anyone, a cannier defensive set-up looks like it could cause problems. But given space and time, our pace, movement, power and invention is going to knock a few teams the fuck out. Leicester were battered by the end.
Mignolet (6) Looked like he'd been a few rounds by the end, but he kept picking himself up. Much to admire about some of his bravery and shot-stopping (he made one game-changing save at least), but he is symptomatic of the crash-bang-wallop style of this Klopp team. He radiates a manic energy and quite simply always looks on edge. There is an lack of calm. For every good stop and much-improved distribution, there's a fuckwitted kick or hapless flap that allowed the other team to raise hopes that should not have been there.
Matip (7) Hardly noticed him. Which is EXACTLY what we need more of. He was an oasis of chill; composed and fast to snuff out danger before it really became properly dangerous. Used the ball well and without fuss.
Lucas (4) Oh God. How many times has it been said about Lucas? "Oh, he did well...apart from...". Apart from one of the most cretinous and clumsy defensive fuck-ups of recent years? The mis-control, the hapless attempt to clear it, that went STRAIGHT to Vardy? A goal that breathed life into a beaten Leicester? There is no "apart from" when you make a fucking mistake like that, and he should not be playing as CB - or indeed ANY POSITION AT ALL - for Liverpool. He's too slow, too shit and too Lucas.
Clyne (6) He started out very heavy-footed indeed, and needed most of the first 30 minutes to get his touch right. After that he was energetic and a good outlet. Needs to doit for 90 minutes and stop needing a warm-up though.
Milner (7) Times when it was apparent that neither he nor Lucas were defenders by trade, but will be less exposed when Lucas isn't there. He made a number of great overlapping runs, used the ball well and delivered some excellent passes. Always a threat offensively, because he's a bright, clever and quality player. But I sometimes feel a bit sad that he is having to play LB. He's too valuable in their half of the pitch with his goals and assists. Although he still provides both.
Henderson (8) Much more like it. I'm not sure he was quite doing the sort of disciplined holding role that many of us feel we need in the team, but he was a hive of industry and endeavour. Passing was snappy and incisive, and he was barrelling around gobbling up possession like the Henderson of a couple of years ago. Still couldn't fucking score in a brothel, though.
Wijnaldum (6) Possibly a generous score, as he didn't really do much. He used the ball OK when he had it, and provided a nice layoff to Lallana for his goal, but he isn't doing enough of anything to excite anyone, or even justify his place. His game is really about adding goals in an attacking midfield role and he isn't really playing in a position that affords too much of that kind of opportunity. Which makes him something of a passenger at times, because he's hardly any kind of tackler of physical presence.
Lallana (8) Like Clyne he seemed to be AWOL in the first 30 minutes, but he gradually found the touch, space and time to start making a difference. The second half was a delight, with his vision and control causing all sorts of problems, and he capped it off with a splendid goal, smashing in an Exocet of a shot.
Mane (8) Didn't get as many early balls or opportunities to run into space in this game, but showed he is more than just a pair of jet heels with some nice close control, and a lovely chipped finish for the goal. A great signing and a crucial player, adding that pace and goal threat we badly needed.
Firmino (9) Two quality finishes to open his scoring for the Premiership season, he was a constant threat with his movement and passing. With Mane, Lallana and Sturridge making great runs and interchanging position , he had more space, more options and more time, and made Leicester pay dearly. Showed how much better he is when there is a proper striker on the pitch with him.
Sturridge (8) He will probably think he should have scored at least two goals, but while he knows that scoring goals is THE single most important factor, the amount of chances he created and got on the end of were very encouraging. As was the signs of the returning pace and freedom of his movement. He terrified Leicester and it was great to watch.
But they are there. Overall, a hugely impressive display and a very well-deserved victory. But those niggles, the fears, the concerns are never far from the surface. We never really look a team capable of staying in control of a match. Of dictating the pace and tempo. For all the blood and thunder spectacle of much of the attacking play, the waters never appear calm. Rather we rock and roll about the pitch like a drunk sailor, and other teams - more organised and calm teams - will exploit that.
For all that we look very capable of slugging it out toe to toe with anyone, a cannier defensive set-up looks like it could cause problems. But given space and time, our pace, movement, power and invention is going to knock a few teams the fuck out. Leicester were battered by the end.
Mignolet (6) Looked like he'd been a few rounds by the end, but he kept picking himself up. Much to admire about some of his bravery and shot-stopping (he made one game-changing save at least), but he is symptomatic of the crash-bang-wallop style of this Klopp team. He radiates a manic energy and quite simply always looks on edge. There is an lack of calm. For every good stop and much-improved distribution, there's a fuckwitted kick or hapless flap that allowed the other team to raise hopes that should not have been there.
Matip (7) Hardly noticed him. Which is EXACTLY what we need more of. He was an oasis of chill; composed and fast to snuff out danger before it really became properly dangerous. Used the ball well and without fuss.
Lucas (4) Oh God. How many times has it been said about Lucas? "Oh, he did well...apart from...". Apart from one of the most cretinous and clumsy defensive fuck-ups of recent years? The mis-control, the hapless attempt to clear it, that went STRAIGHT to Vardy? A goal that breathed life into a beaten Leicester? There is no "apart from" when you make a fucking mistake like that, and he should not be playing as CB - or indeed ANY POSITION AT ALL - for Liverpool. He's too slow, too shit and too Lucas.
Clyne (6) He started out very heavy-footed indeed, and needed most of the first 30 minutes to get his touch right. After that he was energetic and a good outlet. Needs to doit for 90 minutes and stop needing a warm-up though.
Milner (7) Times when it was apparent that neither he nor Lucas were defenders by trade, but will be less exposed when Lucas isn't there. He made a number of great overlapping runs, used the ball well and delivered some excellent passes. Always a threat offensively, because he's a bright, clever and quality player. But I sometimes feel a bit sad that he is having to play LB. He's too valuable in their half of the pitch with his goals and assists. Although he still provides both.
Henderson (8) Much more like it. I'm not sure he was quite doing the sort of disciplined holding role that many of us feel we need in the team, but he was a hive of industry and endeavour. Passing was snappy and incisive, and he was barrelling around gobbling up possession like the Henderson of a couple of years ago. Still couldn't fucking score in a brothel, though.
Wijnaldum (6) Possibly a generous score, as he didn't really do much. He used the ball OK when he had it, and provided a nice layoff to Lallana for his goal, but he isn't doing enough of anything to excite anyone, or even justify his place. His game is really about adding goals in an attacking midfield role and he isn't really playing in a position that affords too much of that kind of opportunity. Which makes him something of a passenger at times, because he's hardly any kind of tackler of physical presence.
Lallana (8) Like Clyne he seemed to be AWOL in the first 30 minutes, but he gradually found the touch, space and time to start making a difference. The second half was a delight, with his vision and control causing all sorts of problems, and he capped it off with a splendid goal, smashing in an Exocet of a shot.
Mane (8) Didn't get as many early balls or opportunities to run into space in this game, but showed he is more than just a pair of jet heels with some nice close control, and a lovely chipped finish for the goal. A great signing and a crucial player, adding that pace and goal threat we badly needed.
Firmino (9) Two quality finishes to open his scoring for the Premiership season, he was a constant threat with his movement and passing. With Mane, Lallana and Sturridge making great runs and interchanging position , he had more space, more options and more time, and made Leicester pay dearly. Showed how much better he is when there is a proper striker on the pitch with him.
Sturridge (8) He will probably think he should have scored at least two goals, but while he knows that scoring goals is THE single most important factor, the amount of chances he created and got on the end of were very encouraging. As was the signs of the returning pace and freedom of his movement. He terrified Leicester and it was great to watch.
Fair assessment and concerns are obviously there. Important to remember though - we've yet to see Karius in action yet, and Can's season hasn't really got going through injury. Should be more to come from Matip also. Early days all round. I do think we'll do serious damage this season...City aside I don't see many if any better sides going forward.
Indeed, Can and Karius would seem be the most obvious "missing" players who will play a part, although you can't make too many predictions when it comes to LFC and Klopp.
For example, I can't be the only one who saw the addition of Wijnaldum and especially Mane, and thought that was going to be Lallana's place in the first XI under threat. But he's simply shifted position slightly, and he's playing well and looking good.
Obviously the goals so far have helped, and like many of his team-mates, the issue isn't looking good in a few games, it's performing at a high level in most games, but so far he's proven me wrong and has added much more of a genuine goal threat and end product.
Still, early days innit
For example, I can't be the only one who saw the addition of Wijnaldum and especially Mane, and thought that was going to be Lallana's place in the first XI under threat. But he's simply shifted position slightly, and he's playing well and looking good.
Obviously the goals so far have helped, and like many of his team-mates, the issue isn't looking good in a few games, it's performing at a high level in most games, but so far he's proven me wrong and has added much more of a genuine goal threat and end product.
Still, early days innit
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